Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

No. As annoying as the Westboro diversion is, it's very useful for getting to the Richmond/Wellington strip from the west via eastbound transitway routes (and vice-versa). Unless and until they can come up with a better interface between the 2 and Lincoln Fields station, keep Westboro. Maybe even keep Westboro then.

Fair enough. In actuality, the diversion eliminates one stop from Richmond, which isn't a huge deal. The diversion to Tunney's Pasture is necessary though.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The frequency of the stops is not a problem. It's the jerk (literally) drivers who have crap training. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. SQUEEEEEZE. STOMP. STOMP. SQUEEEEEEZE. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. STOMP. SQUEEEZE PUMP PUMP PUMP STOMP.

Ever watched the waste collection (aka garbage) trucks?

Not only do they do that, but the entire truck rocks back and forth at every single damned house.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I must be the right contrarian anus, but I find the hybrids are smoother, at least in so far as driver behaviour is concerned.

It's not just you - I find the same thing.

That said, the routes the hybrids [are supposed to] go on typically are the ones with more frequent stops.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

No. As annoying as the Westboro diversion is, it's very useful for getting to the Richmond/Wellington strip from the west via eastbound transitway routes (and vice-versa). Unless and until they can come up with a better interface between the 2 and Lincoln Fields station, keep Westboro. Maybe even keep Westboro then.

Once the LRT is extended west to Lincoln Fields and a full-fledged station built to replace Dominion (but a bit further west), the #2 can divert to it instead of Westboro Station.

But ya, until that time, the #2 should keep going to Westboro and also go to Tunney's Pasture.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Deez

Regardless of the platform lengths, I'm a little concerned about capacity. Here are some of the city's numbers from the 2008 TMP update:



This shows 2006 transit demand into the downtown. The opening-day capacity per direction (10,700) only slightly more than peak demand 6 years ago? What gives?

Originally Posted by Dado

Honestly, I don't know what numbers to trust when it comes to the City/OC Transpo/RMOC and pphpd.

The "10,000 pphpd" number has been kicking around since the early 1990s as an achieved capacity of the BRT system (ultimate source seems to be our eternal friend, John Bonsall), yet the background info for the 2003 TMP pegged the 2002 number at about 7000* at Campus.

Then just four years later it has risen to 10,200? That's almost a 50% increase!

"What gives?" is quite right. Maybe we should sick the auditor on them.


If the 2002 number of 7000 was correct, then we're probably good to go with 10,700 for some time. But if the 2006 number is correct, then we've got a problem from day one.


*Even this number is debatable: the same data showed that there were 5300 peak period riders inbound to Hurdman from the East Transitway and 2200 from the Southeast Transitway, meaning that at Hurdman some 500 of those 7500 combined didn't head downtown but elsewhere. Possible, yes. Plausible? Meh.

I was just going through the documentation a bit more carefully and what do you know but that we have yet another pphpd figure...

Right Sizing the Light Rail Vehicle Fleet

The initial vehicle purchase has been sized to meet the expected demand between today’s peak demand of approximately 9,300 pphpd and the anticipated opening day peak demand of 10,700 pphpd. Because such projections are long-term in nature and based on City growth scenarios that are difficult to accurately predict into the future... (p.23)

Or, apparently, to know even in the present day.

Definitely time for an auditor to investigate.

Here's where you can find the main report:
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=34818

And hopefully the rest of them:
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=2447&doctype=AGENDA

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

Ever watched the waste collection (aka garbage) trucks?

Not only do they do that, but the entire truck rocks back and forth at every single damned house.

Yeah, but garbage doesn't much care about the comfort of the ride.

Once the LRT is extended west to Lincoln Fields and a full-fledged station built to replace Dominion (but a bit further west), the #2 can divert to it instead of Westboro Station.

Actually, if it's built at the right spot, the No. 2 shouldn't have to divert, at all. The station should be right on, under, or over Richmond Road. But, this being Ottawa, never misunderestimate the power of the transit planners to put stations in really stupid locations.

But ya, until that time, the #2 should keep going to Westboro and also go to Tunney's Pasture.

Or create a good ped link from Somerset to Bayview.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yeah, but garbage doesn't much care about the comfort of the ride.



Actually, if it's built at the right spot, the No. 2 shouldn't have to divert, at all. The station should be right on, under, or over Richmond Road. But, this being Ottawa, never misunderestimate the power of the transit planners to put stations in really stupid locations.



Or create a good ped link from Somerset to Bayview.

I agree, there would be no need to divert the 2 on any alignment other than the parkway alignment, and they could even eliminate the Westboro diversion (keep it on Richmond Road) as a connection would be provided at other locations.

In addition, the 2 would also gain ridership on the western section from Ambleside to Bayshore as it would be replacing the 97 there (with a slight increase in frequency although it already runs quite often) and it would be more straight-forward with a single, more frequent route on that section. The truncated 97 would be totally redundant as all connections would be possible with the 2 to any of the stations in the Westboro to Ambleside section with no real change in travel time. The only change would be the 2X Westboro trips on weekends would have to continue to Bayshore.

For now the diversion of the 2 is necessary as it is the only possible connection from Transitway routes to Richmond Road and Wellington Street without going all the way downtown. It may need to change to a Tunney's Pasture diversion at Stage 1 (via Holland and Ross? Caroline?)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

For now the diversion of the 2 is necessary as it is the only possible connection from Transitway routes to Richmond Road and Wellington Street without going all the way downtown. It may need to change to a Tunney's Pasture diversion at Stage 1 (via Holland and Ross? Caroline?)

A straightforward diversion might be simplest. Left (right) on Holland, north to Tunney's Pasture (station or pasture), 180, back south on Holland, resume eastbound (westbound) trajectory. You don't want this route to be missing very many blocks on Wellington.

[matty14]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Or create a good ped link from Somerset to Bayview.

I believe there is actually one being made. It appears to be almost finished.

[Kitchissippi]

it is in fact finished, paved and open for use. it links to the Ottawa river Pathway:


Somerset tunnel:


from Ottawavelooutaouais

What I really wish for is a ped/bike bridge at the end of Wellington West

[McC]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A straightforward diversion might be simplest. Left (right) on Holland, north to Tunney's Pasture (station or pasture), 180, back south on Holland, resume eastbound (westbound) trajectory. You don't want this route to be missing very many blocks on Wellington.

Yup, just straight up and down Holland is what I'd do, too (I would NOT run on Parkdale). The only other thing I would add is a priority light for buses in the curbside lane at a bus stop in front of World of Maps (i.e. northwest corner of Holland and Wellington) that would allow for:
1) eastbound 2s to jump the cue and turn left onto Wellington from the right lane,
2) westbound 2s to make an easy right turn without pedestrian conflicts
3) southbound Holland Ave buses (the current 86, 176 routes) to jump the cue

Fatal flaw in this plan: people who want to board a 2 at that stop would have to pay attention to the bus's name and/or turn signal to ensure they get on the correct direction.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by matty14

I believe there is actually one being made. It appears to be almost finished.

Is there a link from the Somerset viaduct level down to the path?

[matty14]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Is there a link from the Somerset viaduct level down to the path?

There is... sort of. On the south side of Somerset there's a branch that leads back down to the main path. I guess grade constraints kept it this way, but it's a long long walk away from Bayview to get on the main path and head back under Somerset towards Bayview. I guarantee there will be a man-made "path" cutting halfway down to get back on once winter is over. There's no equivalent connection path on the North side, I think the City Centre building might have gotten in the way.

I live in the area, I might try to get over there today to snap some photos if the weather isn't too crappy.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Only if the city (A) allows it, and (B) demands better when developers propose crappy, non-transit-oriented, low-density, ample-parking, ass-to-the-transit-system projects, which, inevitibly, this being Ottawa, they will.

The city has to stop giving byes to crappy development for development's sake, and stop throwing obstacles in the way of good urban - not suburban - urban planning.

I hope the City does something about intensifying Lees Ave, and opens up development on that huge field/park that often sits empty most of the time right beside the existing high density.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by toaster

I hope the City does something about intensifying Lees Ave, and opens up development on that huge field/park that often sits empty most of the time right beside the existing high density.

The plan has always been for a highway access to come from the 417, accross that field, cross the river, and connect to the much-debated Alta Vista transit corridor (where the power lines go between the hospital and the neighbourhood). This would be an excellent access to the hospital area and take a lot of strain off of Riverside and Alta Vista given the 1000's of employees that work at the various hospitals and university buildings. As always in Ottawa, this plan has fallen victim to NIMBYism. People bought their houses knowing the corridor was always planned, but they fight it tooth and nail whenever there are talks to put the plan into action. This would make an excellent LRT ROW as well.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by matty14

There is... sort of. On the south side of Somerset there's a branch that leads back down to the main path. I guess grade constraints kept it this way, but it's a long long walk away from Bayview to get on the main path and head back under Somerset towards Bayview. I guarantee there will be a man-made "path" cutting halfway down to get back on once winter is over. There's no equivalent connection path on the North side, I think the City Centre building might have gotten in the way.

I live in the area, I might try to get over there today to snap some photos if the weather isn't too crappy.

There will also be staircase on the south side of Somerset; Darwin had some pics a while back.

http://www.westsideaction.com/spreading-the-dirt/ (pics near the end of the post).

[toaster]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

The plan has always been for a highway access to come from the 417, accross that field, cross the river, and connect to the much-debated Alta Vista transit corridor (where the power lines go between the hospital and the neighbourhood). This would be an excellent access to the hospital area and take a lot of strain off of Riverside and Alta Vista given the 1000's of employees that work at the various hospitals and university buildings. As always in Ottawa, this plan has fallen victim to NIMBYism. People bought their houses knowing the corridor was always planned, but they fight it tooth and nail whenever there are talks to put the plan into action. This would make an excellent LRT ROW as well.

Oh wow, I didn't know about that. A decision should be made sooner or later. It's a prime development location, right on the light-rail corridor.

[eemy]

Is anyone whether the trains will be automated or not? I get the impression that they won't be (especially since the plan for the trains seems to have a position for an operator; however, the 1:45 minute headway and the Thales system they will be using seems to be inline with what you would expect with an automated system.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Is anyone whether the trains will be automated or not? I get the impression that they won't be (especially since the plan for the trains seems to have a position for an operator; however, the 1:45 minute headway and the Thales system they will be using seems to be inline with what you would expect with an automated system.

Sshhhh, not so loud. The driver's union might hear you

[McC]

There will be drivers, it's just not clear whether the drivers will actually do anything. Lots of metro systems have automatic control and drivers there for hood ornaments safety. Anyway, from what I've read, they will be entirely automated within the maintenance yard, but it's still unclear to me to what extent they will be under the control of this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT8A9B2xz6Q
or this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEu4Iq5KL-Q
when the trains are in service, (and, for that matter whether it will be different in or out of the Tunnel, which there was some talk of earlier in the design process... back when there was going to be screens in the tunnel stations and such).

[AuxTown]

Automate this crap and tell the union to screw off. They can keep driving buses and maybe can stop claiming $25-50k in overtime every year like they have been for the last decade. Hopefully, gone will be the days when our bus drivers make $100k+ per year. I'm not anti-bus driver, but I do believe in cost savings and automating the system is a no-brainer when it comes to cost and efficiency.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by McC

There will be drivers, it's just not clear whether the drivers will actually do anything. Lots of metro systems have automatic control and drivers there for hood ornaments safety.

That sucks. It's so much fun to ride in the front of Vancouver's wholly automated trains! Plus, the drivers don't strike.