Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed - Page 254

xd_1771 · #**5061** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 7:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

I bypassed trains back in 2009 when we had our 35C heat wave. The MKIs were hell on rails during that time. I waited up to five trains at one time before I got a nice air conditioned MKII. I don't believe the 2.5s were here yet so MKIs still made up a good majority of trainsets.

The real nitpick I had with the Mk Is in the summer is not the air conditioning but how the hot air gets in. The windows are always open which adds a breeze but that really only benefits those standing near the doors. So what I just do is go around the car and close the windows. The interior does have fans which provide a nice breeze whether you are standing or sitting, which would be taken away from those sitting or in most areas with the windows open. Less noise too. Doing that made the ride far more comfortable for me. Still, I definitely preferred the Mk IIs and the air conditioning.

Metro-One · #**5062** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 7:19 PM**

Maybe we should make a separate seat layout thread?? hehe, seems to have taken over the Evergreen Line thread.

trofirhen · #**5063** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 7:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

Yet people still ride those trains and it becomes packed.

Those metallic seats also happen to make trains much more sterile, durable, clean. This is Hong Kong. It's one of the cleanest, hygienic subway systems I've been on....thanks to not only their commitment to actually clean the trains very regularly, but also because of a very strict no food and drink policy.

With fabric/leather seats like what we have, it's harder to clean and builds up a lot more germs and dirt.....especially for Translink, which isn't in a good habit of cleaning their vehicles regularly.

So what if it is metallic, it's not like it's the chair that people sit on at the office all day. They're in it for 15-minutes.

Vancouver's transit is too good and too young? People, we're talking about seating configurations. Let's get some perspective here.

I stand corrected.

Mac Write · #**5064** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Mac Write is a geriatric who others are expected to give up their seats for, hence the welfare of standees is irrelevant to him. Baby boomer selfishness is what's running north america into the ground economically, environmentally and aesthetically

Excuse me! I am not a geriatric. I am disabled from birth with visual impairment as well as have Cerebella Posy. When I am on a Mark 1 train, I see people avoiding the side seating. I am just going by what I see and feel. I am disabled and find side seating very unconfortable due to my balance, and avoid it as much as possible. I am also not a baby boomer by a long shot nor think I am entitled.

Why don't you convince Translink to convert a Mark I, II, II.V to side seating only and what the publics reaction to this "New" seating.

When I get on a Waterfront. I see people go along way and not short 10 minute trips.

federal777 · #**5065** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 8:53 PM**

Looking at this 1931 pic of Dunsmuir tunnel http://members.shaw.ca/cranberry/dunsmuir1.png, it looks wide enough for much wider cars. And, obviously, a freight car is much wider than a mk. i/ii car. Can someone tell me why the Skytrain cars are therefore so narrow, like a toy?

officedweller · #**5066** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 9:24 PM**

The width of the cars would be related to the compact inner city "fit".

The ALRT was designed as an elevated inner city rapid transit system (i.e. Detroit Peoplemover)
A key feature is the ability to make sharp turns around buildings within a city grid system.
The features that allow that are the short cars and the steerable axles.
The turning radius was a huge feature - exemplified in Vancouver with the sharp turn into Main St. station and in Toronto with the (now decommissioned?) turning loop at Kennedy.

Remember, that was in the days before fully articulated trains.
That's also the same reason why LRTs often have many articulations - to allow cornering.

The Bombardier ALRT seems to have moved away from the original concept with the longer MKII cars (i.e. based on actual implementation)

For rapid transit cars dimensions, see here:

Elevated lines in NYC and Chicago also have short cars.

http://greg-vassilakos.com/traindwg/traindwg.htm

Chicago El - Big City - short cars!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_'L'

The other factor would be whether oncoming cars "clip" each other on tight turns (on sections of dual guideway) due to the tight radius. I'm not sure if there are any, though, as I think the guideway splits for Main St. station at that turn.

aberdeen5698 · #**5067** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by federal777

Can someone tell me why the Skytrain cars are therefore so narrow, like a toy?

Because this is a "light" rail system, not "heavy" rail. The original name for Skytrain technology was "ALRT" - "Advanced Light Rapid Transit". Light cars kept the costs down because it meant the guideways didn't have to be built to accommodate the weight of full-sized cars.

Even so, the first section of guideway that was built (along Terminal Avenue east of Main Street) had to be upgraded in order to accommodate the longer, heavier Mark II cars.

dleung · #**5068** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 10:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Why don't you convince Translink to convert a Mark I, II, II.V to side seating only and what the publics reaction to this "New" seating.

When I get on a Waterfront. I see people go along way and not short 10 minute trips.

Well I'm fine with the current layout of the new Mark II's, but the Canada line is well overkill in terms of making everyone comfy, especially considering the fact that the line is only 25 minutes end-to-end, plus the fact that it's way underbuilt for its projected ridership.

Here's a link comparing train layouts in different metro systems:
http://greg-vassilakos.com/traindwg/traindwg.htm

Vancouver

Kuala Lumpur

many more in above link

federal777 · #**5069** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 11:05 PM**

Why didn't they make it heavy rail (canada line-like), then? They knew the population would keep growing, so why not make it heavy. You can still have high frequency with wider cars (if you really wanted to be efficient, you could adjust number of cars per each train).

They weren't thinking long-term and cheaped out.

The circulation in the cars during rush hour is horrible.

Echowinds · #**5070** Posted **Dec 9, 2012, 11:58 PM**

I don't see how the current "toy" skytrain is a problem when the ultimate capacity wouldn't be reached in decades. The maximum capacity for the Expo Line is greater than the subway in Toronto, which uses heavy rail.

And you seem to have completely ignored officedweller's post.

trofirhen · #**5071** Posted **Dec 10, 2012, 1:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by federal777

Why didn't they make it heavy rail (canada line-like), then? They knew the population would keep growing, so why not make it heavy. You can still have high frequency with wider cars (if you really wanted to be efficient, you could adjust number of cars per each train).

They weren't thinking long-term and cheaped out.

The circulation in the cars during rush hour is horrible.

I've never ridden it, but was also turned off by the short-term thinking and short, cheaper trains and stations; cutting every financial corner, mostly just to open it for the 2010 OG.

We can only accept their adequate work now, and hope they do better work in the future.

jlousa · #**5072** Posted **Dec 10, 2012, 1:29 AM**

On topic now. Otherwise posts get deleted and/or moderator action taken. Seriously guys this is getting ridiculous these days.

SpongeG · #**5073** Posted **Dec 10, 2012, 8:03 AM**

someone on SSC posted a bunch of pictures of construction etc. associated with the line, none of it really seemed to be the line itself, when will wee see the line going up?

GeeCee · #**5074** Posted **Dec 10, 2012, 1:46 PM**

Major construction is supposed to begin in the spring, I believe. This is of course pending the contract actually being signed with SNC-Lavalin.

Edit: actually, major construction is supposed to begin in late fall of 2012!

I guess they have a week and a half or so..

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/NewsReleases/2012TRAN0090-001491.pdf

officedweller · #**5075** Posted **Dec 10, 2012, 10:47 PM**

The final "early works" contract has been awarded:

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2012TRAN0121-001983.htm#

Quote:

Dec 8, 2012

Progress continues on the Evergreen Line

COQUITLAM – The final early works contract for the Evergreen Line has been awarded, which lays the ground work for major construction and helps to keep the project on track for 2016.

Pedre Contractors Ltd. of Langley was awarded a $683,000 contract to install underground power lines in Coquitlam. The lines will provide power for construction and operation of the Evergreen Line. Work will begin in early 2013 and is expected to finish in late March 2013.

This is the second Evergreen Line contract awarded to Pedre Contractors. The first contract was awarded earlier this year, and the company successfully installed power lines in Port Moody and Coquitlam in August 2012.
...

“The Evergreen Line project is making steady progress,” said Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Mary Polak. “We are making our way towards major construction, and we expect to update the public later this month. We are committed to bringing the Evergreen Line to Metro Vancouver families and communities in summer 2016.”

BACKGROUNDER

Evergreen Line early works construction highlights

Evergreen Line rapid transit project early works construction began less than a year ago and is nearing completion. Several construction, excavation and demolition companies in Metro Vancouver have won about $30 million in contracts, which has created more than 160 jobs.

Examples of the early works include:

· North Road, between Gatineau Avenue and Cottonwood Avenue, is being widened to add a new lane on the west side to accommodate the Evergreen Line guideway. The new lane will replace the lane that will be used for the guideway. This will also minimize traffic disruption during construction. The northern section of North Road is complete, and the rest is expected to be complete in January 2013.

· Underground power lines and hydro poles are being installed along the Evergreen Line route to prepare for major construction and operation of the line. This work is expected to be complete before June 2013.

· Approximately 400 metres of railway tracks on Columbia St. in Port Moody will be shifted north to accommodate the ground-level portion of the guideway. This work is expected to be complete in early 2013.

· 28 buildings in Burnaby, Port Moody and Coquitlam are being demolished, moved or renovated to accommodate the guideway and stations. This work is expected to be complete in early 2013.

Mininari · #**5076** Posted **Dec 11, 2012, 12:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Major construction is supposed to begin in the spring, I believe. This is of course pending the contract actually being signed with SNC-Lavalin.

Edit: actually, major construction is supposed to begin in late fall of 2012!

I guess they have a week and a half or so..

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/NewsReleases/2012TRAN0090-001491.pdf

PMC line (Phase 2 Millenium line) expected completion 2006. Nope.
Evergreen LRT construction est. start fall 2006 (sold my condo to avoid this...) finished 2009. Nope.
Skytrain Evergreen. Promised start spring 2011, fall 2011, Spring 2012, Fall 2012, and we're days away from 'early 2013. Completion now bumped back to 2016.
(and this doesn't include the pre-millenium line plans for the tricity skytrain line.
So many promises and delays.

How much longer is federal money on the table for this?

jsbertram · #**5077** Posted **Dec 11, 2012, 12:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mininari

PMC line (Phase 2 Millenium line) expected completion 2006. Nope.
Evergreen LRT construction est. start fall 2006 (sold my condo to avoid this...) finished 2009. Nope.
Skytrain Evergreen. Promised start spring 2011, fall 2011, Spring 2012, Fall 2012, and we're days away from 'early 2013. Completion now bumped back to 2016.
(and this doesn't include the pre-millenium line plans for the tricity skytrain line.
So many promises and delays.

How much longer is federal money on the table for this?

Everything on your list was in the planning phases before being cancelled, except for Skytrain Evergreen Line.

Skytrain Evergreen Line is the only item that has progressed to the 'Early Works Construction' phase which should be completed in January. The major construction contracts negotiations are being finalized, with hopes to have them signed soon so major construction can start in the new year (2013).

DKaz · #**5078** Posted **Dec 11, 2012, 1:06 AM**

Whoa glass half empty. lol. I never had high hopes for this project, it's hard to crush expectations when the expectations never existed in the first place.

The Evergreen Line has pretty much been on thin ice for the first couple of years. It finally found its way to thicker ice. Just a bit more and it'll be on solid ground.

federal777 · #**5079** Posted **Dec 11, 2012, 1:56 AM**

Disappointed the Clarke Road Section is underground for quite a bit. Deprives people of a view. Shame on the designers who didn't leave a median. Wish we could expropriate land on one side to keep it elevated.

GeeCee · #**5080** Posted **Dec 11, 2012, 3:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by federal777

Disappointed the Clarke Road Section is underground for quite a bit. Deprives people of a view. Shame on the designers who didn't leave a median. Wish we could expropriate land on one side to keep it elevated.

A tunnel is necessary either way in order to deal with the grade going down snake hill. It's very steep, and a long runup is needed to not exceed the maximum 6% grade for skytrain.