Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Put out a public survey, Open houses etc in Vancouver and I will guarantee you that the majority will say no to side seating. Western people prefer front facing seating, that's why when the public was asked about the Mark II seating they said no to side seating and hence why we don't have it. and I am so happy we don't have it, as I used side seating and I hate it.

You know what else works with that?

Put out a public survey, cut taxes completely in B.C. And I will guarantee you that the majority will say yes to no taxes. Screw having basic infrastructure and services!

Put out a public survey, no more density in this neighbourhood next to SkyTrain. And I will guarantee you that the majority will say no to density. Screw sustainability, let's encourage more sprawl!

Put our a public survey, no more HST. And I will guarantee you that the majority will say no to HST. But it's not a good time to switch our tax system during a recession? But HST makes our economy more competitive to other provinces that are steadily adopting HST? But HST lowers costs for both consumers and businesses in the long-term and has positive effects? I DON'T CARE, and I'm so glad we don't have it.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

Precisely so, because people won't be standing in the middle row/aisle as users may feel it is too squishy in the SkyTrain vehicle. Keep in mind, one also has to factor in knee/leg space so it would still look more like:

1 seat - knee/leg - 1 standee - 1 standee - 1 knee/leg - 1 seat

But the Canada Line is much wider and thus, should have ample room for people to stand in the center. On ROTEM's other vehicles, such as the MTR:


(Online Utility)

A side seating configuration will allow for a centre pole that can allow for the third row of standees, unlike in the SkyTrain vehicle, where a centre pole will restrict movement in the carriage.

Great point about the Mark II trains, although side seating is something the Canada Line really needs and as you explained, makes more feasible sense.

[Mac Write]

Put it this way, put in side seating, watch Skytrain ridership decline.

[trofirhen]

That train above is in a big Asian city. Please note that is a number of cars long, and built "open end to end" perhaps to increase capacity, or facilitate passenger movement. The seats look metallic and hard, and it has little riding appeal. (I want to take the Canada Line first thing when I come back).

Anyway, that train in the pîcture is for dense pax loads in a big city; given train length, configuration, and seating. Then again, as in Paris, a mix of side-seating and front seating can be achieved.
Vancouver's transit is too good (and too young) to mess around with using cars like the above, for the time being, anyway.

[Mac Write]

why don't they rip out all the seats on the 99 that would drastically increase capacity.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

why don't they rip out all the seats on the 99 that would drastically increase capacity.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Put it this way, put in side seating, watch Skytrain ridership decline.

Lol, no it won't. Though maybe in your fantasy world.

The vast majority of trips in SkyTrain are for how long? 5-minutes? 10-minutes? 15-minutes? 20-minutes? Most trips are not terminus to terminus, much shorter than the length of the lines. I'm pretty sure this isn't a Greyhound ride to California, or a flight to Toronto....or to be realistic, a long-haul commuter rail ride like the West Coast Express.

There's already side seating on the Mark I trains and buses, pretty sure that hasn't been the end of the world for SkyTrain, new trolleys, and buses...they're still packed! (and with more people than they would otherwise fit with row seating too! And you can also move more freely within them and towards the doors with the extra aisle space!)

Oh, the horrors of having to look at someone else! The horrors of not liking the direction your seat is faced!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Mac Write

why don't they rip out all the seats on the 99 that would drastically increase capacity.

Certainly you've never heard of something called moderation?

Come back to reality, please. Add in some logic, rationale and common sense.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That train above is in a big Asian city. Please note that is a number of cars long, and built "open end to end" perhaps to increase capacity, or facilitate passenger movement. The seats look metallic and hard, and it has little riding appeal. (I want to take the Canada Line first thing when I come back).

Anyway, that train in the pîcture is for dense pax loads in a big city; given train length, configuration, and seating. Then again, as in Paris, a mix of side-seating and front seating can be achieved.
Vancouver's transit is too good (and too young) to mess around with using cars like the above, for the time being, anyway.

Yet people still ride those trains and it becomes packed.

Those metallic seats also happen to make trains much more sterile, durable, clean. This is Hong Kong. It's one of the cleanest, hygienic subway systems I've been on....thanks to not only their commitment to actually clean the trains very regularly, but also because of a very strict no food and drink policy.

With fabric/leather seats like what we have, it's harder to clean and builds up a lot more germs and dirt.....especially for Translink, which isn't in a good habit of cleaning their vehicles regularly.

So what if it is metallic, it's not like it's the chair that people sit on at the office all day. They're in it for 15-minutes.

Vancouver's transit is too good and too young? People, we're talking about seating configurations. Let's get some perspective here.

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Put it this way, put in side seating, watch Skytrain ridership decline.

That is the most absurd thing I heard. If side seating is so bad such that people will stop taking skytrain, then the vast majority of people who have to stand instead must be on the brink of suicide.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by squeezied

If side seating is so bad such that people will stop taking skytrain, then the vast majority of people who have to stand instead must be on the brink of suicide.

Mac Write is a geriatric who others are expected to give up their seats for, hence the welfare of standees is irrelevant to him. Baby boomer selfishness is what's running north america into the ground economically, environmentally and aesthetically

[xd_1771]

I think a great compromise would be a system mixing side-facing seating with front-facing seating at the car ends. Come to think of it, even without the side-seating config, we're rivalling the most capacious rapid transit systems in Canada with 5-car trains every 75 seconds. Maybe such a move won't even be necessary. If capacity is so drastically needed, those side-seats could be fold-up seats like in Tokyo on the Yamamote Line 6-door cars and some other examples.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I think a great compromise would be a system mixing side-facing seating with front-facing seating at the car ends.

So, the ICTS MKI trains?

[xd_1771]

HAHA, not on a per-car basis. Throughout a consist, of course.

[SpongeG]

its funny people dont want to sit across from each other yet have no problem having a stranger sit beside them in their "space"

[xd_1771]

^ I will admit to preferring a seat in the single seat rows on the new Mk IIs and some Mk Is - and somehow having less discomfort with people on both sides of me, in the Mk I side seats.

That above is actually a very decent point. I guess it's the different perception you get. With the centre side seating config on the Mk I, you have people all around you and I somehow perceive that as normal as there appear to be others that share the situation; there's also an easy way out. However, being on the inner side of a 2-seat column on the Mk II with a stranger on the aisle seat, is effectively like being trapped. So this train of thought clearly makes sense.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Put it this way, put in side seating, watch Skytrain ridership decline.

That's ridiculous.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

its funny people dont want to sit across from each other yet have no problem having a stranger sit beside them in their "space"

Here in Madrid every line except one has side seating. There is one line that has a mix, the middle cars are all side seating and the end cars have front and back facing seats in pairs of 4. Those are the most uncomfortable and inefficient designed cars. There's no space to stand in the aisle between seats and getting in and out of the seats is so annoying if you don't have an aisle seat.

Subways should always be side seating only.

[cabotp]

When it comes down to it. People don't really care how the seats are situated. They just want to get to where ever they are going.

So ya if people had a choice they would probably choose the single seat that is facing forward. Even I prefer that seat. And there second choice might be the isle seat of a double seat. There third could be a toss up for either a side facing seat or the inside seat on a double seat. Then after that they could stand.

If someone comes on the skytrain and doesn't like the side facing seats that are left or doesn't like being on the inside of a double seat. They will just stand. But the person coming in behind them might not care about the seats and just sit down.

In all my time I have never seen anyone go to get on the skytrain and then get off because they didn't like the seats that were left

[DKaz]

I bypassed trains back in 2009 when we had our 35C heat wave. The MKIs were hell on rails during that time. I waited up to five trains at one time before I got a nice air conditioned MKII. I don't believe the 2.5s were here yet so MKIs still made up a good majority of trainsets.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by dleung

Mac Write is a geriatric who others are expected to give up their seats for, hence the welfare of standees is irrelevant to him. Baby boomer selfishness is what's running north america into the ground economically, environmentally and aesthetically

Let's have some sensitivity and respect here and stick to the issues. If you aren't aware, he has a disability and finds the side seats to be difficult to navigate and keep his balance with.

And for the record, I like the front facing seats, but like getting on a train more than I like not getting on a train (thus supporting side facing seats), and think that we can meet in the middle somewhere with front facing seats being at the ends of the trains (not cars) where the elevators tend to be located.