[St. John's] The Official Project Thread - Page 291

AllBlack · #**5801** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfoundlander

You could be right there. If Atlantic Place came down, I'd fight tooth and nail to keep a modern building from ever going up in its place.

The Battery... I wouldn't. There's modern bungalows up right beside it.

I don't understand your logic there. There's a modern building right next door to Atlantic Place too.

Townie709 · #**5802** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:21 PM**

If Atlantic place was torn down, I wouldn't mind a modern building going in its place. I think something historic looking that would fit in on the water street side should go there instead of another brick and glass wall, but I don't see any problem in building another skyscraper set back from water street, like built on the harbour drive side. Scotia Center right next door is modern and I think it adds a nice mix to that part of water street.

I would be fine with nothing modern being built on the Atlantic place sight only if I was promised a 20 story office building/shopping center in the west end, and that has just about as much likelihood as Atlantic Place being torn down

A nice reclad and building up the full 20 stories is the only way to improve the look of Atlantic Place IMO.

Arrakis · #**5803** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:23 PM**

I have no problem with modern buildings being built in downtown St. John's alongside of heritage buildings. As long as the design is nice I have no issue i with it. Modern building design will be the heritage of our future. If Atlantic Place ever did come down, do you think they would building old clapboarded row houses there instead of another modern styled building?

SignalHillHiker · #**5804** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:25 PM**

Not rowhouses, but I would prefer something closer to the heritage buildings on Water Street, or even a mix, like MIX Condos. But I wouldn't want anything purely modern there.

Townie709 · #**5805** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis

I have no problem with modern buildings being built in downtown St. John's alongside of heritage buildings. As long as the design is nice I have no issue i with it. Modern building design will be the heritage of our future. If Atlantic Place ever did come down, do you think they would building old clapboarded row houses there instead of another modern styled building?

Honestly, yes. People would never let anything be built there. Council is way stricter on these rules than they were in the 60s. I don't agree with putting clapboard row houses there, but that's probably what would happen

Townie709 · #**5806** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfoundlander

Not rowhouses, but I would prefer something closer to the heritage buildings on Water Street, or even a mix, like MIX Condos. But I wouldn't want anything purely modern there.

But would you mind if they built something like the heritage buildings on water street facing water street, and then built something modern set back from water street on the harbour drive side?

SignalHillHiker · #**5807** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

But would you mind if they built something like the heritage buildings on water street facing water street, and then built something modern set back from water street on the harbour drive side?

It wouldn't be ideal, but I would be comfortable with that, yes.

I just think... we have to protect old town St. John's. We've given up east of the Sheraton and west of 351 almost completely. These areas are and will continue to become modern areas with only a handful of specifically important heritage buildings.

That's, say, Halifax-style preservation of heritage. And that's good for those neighbourhoods.

But we have something more - we have a relatively intact (certainly one of the most intact in Canada outside of Quebec) old town core. We have a whole area between these two neighbourhoods where the vast majority of buildings are heritage structures.

That makes our heritage immersive. It makes old St. John's FAR more than just postcards of a few historic buildings. It makes it the heart and soul of the city, it makes it timeless, beautiful. It's what people remember about St. John's, why they come here.

We have a duty to protect that and part of that is reversing some past mistakes, when the opportunity arises. Atlantic Place is, in my opinion, the best example of a mistake that should be righted. From that point, east to the Sheraton, I want low buildings that, if modern, most have some heritage elements - like MIX Condos, like the Marriott expansion.

I would completely oppose anything like Scotia Place or even Fortis, 351, etc. going there.

Same goes for TD Place and the Fortis Building when those come down.

That stretch I would ideally like to see us preserve, as much as it was protected with a wall around it like Quebec's equivalent.

Architype · #**5808** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:38 PM**

Architectually it would be easy to make Atlantic Place acceptable, it would just be expensive.

It's not likely that a 37 year old structurally sound office building would ever be torn down, and 350,000 sq ft of space would then have to be replaced. Although the size and shape of the building is a problem, the actual design is most of the problem.

Townie709 · #**5809** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:45 PM**

Come to think about it, the Atlantic Place site would make a beautiful park..!

I agree with you about preserving the heritage parts of St. John's., but in order to preserve our heritage we must have a section of land (the west end) completely rezoned for purely modern development. We can't preserve all our land and offer no sites to build modern developments on. After we fill in all the empty lots in the east end, the efforts there should go to purely preservation.

The west end needs to be bulldozed. Those fields and shacks of houses need to be torn down and prepared for developers. We can't turn away developers from the east end, and give them no other options to build anywhere downtown. That is why the height limit desperately needs to be lifted a bit west of Waldegrave and why we need to rezoned all that residential to commercial.

(This wasn't directed at you signal, just an observation that we've discussed countless times before)

Architype · #**5810** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 8:56 PM**

The parking garage too would also have to go, creating the need for around 700 more spaces. It's not likely to happen very soon. Where would you relocate it?

SignalHillHiker · #**5811** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype

The parking garage too would also have to go, creating the need for around 700 more spaces. It's not likely to happen very soon. Where would you relocate it?

At the end of the streetcar line.

Architype · #**5812** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 9:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfoundlander

At the end of the streetcar line.

You mean in Mount Pearl, ideally.

PoscStudent · #**5813** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

BAHAHAHHAHA yeah probably! and all they are doing is replacing the windows :S

I know it can be expensive but i mean really! it's taking just as long and as much money as if they were to have built an office tower DT!!

All the brick needed to be fixed as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis

I have no problem with modern buildings being built in downtown St. John's alongside of heritage buildings. As long as the design is nice I have no issue i with it. Modern building design will be the heritage of our future. If Atlantic Place ever did come down, do you think they would building old clapboarded row houses there instead of another modern styled building?

Exactly!

Townie709 · #**5814** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

All the brick needed to be fixed as well.

So they are re-bricking the entire building?

PoscStudent · #**5815** Posted **Nov 29, 2012, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

So they are re-bricking the entire building?

They have to reinforce the existing brick.

Arrakis · #**5816** Posted **Nov 30, 2012, 12:56 AM**

I hate to say it but it's true. Newfoundlanders are cheap. When it comes to building most new buildings in Newfoundland by Newfoundland companies, they will likely take the cheapest gaudiest route to put up a building. Sacrificing masonry and brick and archictectural style with corrigated steel siding if they can get away with it. They will submit a decent plan to get it approved then change and cheapin it down half way through and design process. I see it happening all the time here. Just look at the upcoming Steele Hotel plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfoundlander

Not rowhouses, but I would prefer something closer to the heritage buildings on Water Street, or even a mix, like MIX Condos. But I wouldn't want anything purely modern there.

JCE · #**5817** Posted **Nov 30, 2012, 2:54 AM**

Hey. I have been following along with all the interesting posts and progress in this forum over the last few months. Great discussions and pictures posted. I have no real experience or industry knowledge. Just alway had a real interest in development/planing/construction in and around the city and province. I look forward to following along with the forum and seeing all the progress in the city.

jeddy1989 · #**5818** Posted **Nov 30, 2012, 3:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCE

Hey. I have been following along with all the interesting posts and progress in this forum over the last few months. Great discussions and pictures posted. I have no real experience or industry knowledge. Just alway had a real interest in development/planing/construction in and around the city and province. I look forward to following along with the forum and seeing all the progress in the city.

Welcome to the forum!! thats how i started

and I've been participating now since Dec 7 2009... I just looked it up WOW! every day for at least 3 years i've been checking SSP and participating in the convos!

my SSP bday is next week!

JCE · #**5819** Posted **Nov 30, 2012, 3:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

Well they've been at it for two years, so they must be doing ALOT more than windows. I think the reson they replaced the windows is because they were leaking. Maybe there was a lot of mould underneath? Idk. But even if they worked at the rate of one window a day, they should have been done a long time ago.

They HAVE to be dining something besides windows, don't they?

And signal (yes, I shall still call you that

) not sure I follow your logic as to how this means a new/updated building on the battery site

Check out the Daily Commercial News article. Gives a little detail on how the brick and mortar is being repaired. Using a stainless steel anchoring system.

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/id49482

Townie709 · #**5820** Posted **Nov 30, 2012, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCE

Check out the Daily Commercial News article. Gives a little detail on how the brick and mortar is being repaired. Using a stainless steel anchoring system.

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/id49482

Wow! Thanks for the article! They are definitely doing alot more than replacing windows! I'll have to stop making fun of the slow work that's being done

Seems like quite the restoration project and that kind of work obviously doesn't come cheap!

And of course, Welcome to the forums! I started the same way and I have been here for a whole... three months! Haha, bit quite as impressive as jeddy xD But it's great to have another person to discuss stuff with! I hope you feel welcome and stick around