Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Is that Cleo Lemon with the 2-6 record as a CFLer?

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Is that Cleo Lemon with the 2-6 record as a CFLer?

His record was better than that but yes he was terrible.

[Ramako]

I've never watched a CFL game in my life and have never had an iota of interest in the league. But given that this is the 100th Grey Cup, it's being played in Toronto, the Argos are competing and there seems to be a genuine buzz (in addition to swarms of Roughriders fans) around town, I'm planning on watching this Sunday.

Plus, after witnessing all these silly traditions surrounding the event, I'm convinced that this might be a really fun slice of Canadiana that I've been missing out on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ramako

I've never watched a CFL game in my life and have never had an iota of interest in the league. But given that this is the 100th Grey Cup, it's being played in Toronto, the Argos are competing and there seems to be a genuine buzz (in addition to swarms of Roughriders fans) around town, I'm planning on watching this Sunday.

Plus, after witnessing all these silly traditions surrounding the event, I'm convinced that this might be a really fun slice of Canadiana that I've been missing out on.

If the CFL people could read your post, they would say: "mission accomplished".

Out of curiosity, though, do you pay attention to any other gridiron football at all? NFL? CIS? NCAA?

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If the CFL people could read your post, they would say: "mission accomplished".

Out of curiosity, though, do you pay attention to any other gridiron football at all? NFL? CIS? NCAA?

Not at all, though I may watch the Super Bowl on occasion.

I'll be honest. I'm one of those fans who tends to follow the city more than the sport itself. While I am a rabid Blue Jays and Raptors fan, and I do genuinely enjoy watching and playing baseball and basketball, if Toronto didn't have a team in MLB or the NBA, I'd probably stop paying as much attention as I do to those leagues. And if Toronto were awarded an NFL team tomorrow, I'd probably start paying a whole lot more attention to football. It's difficult to become invested in a team of strangers unless there's some kind of connection there.

But simply having a team isn't enough. I also have to feel like I'm watching the best talent in the world. So while Toronto does have CFL and MLS teams, I've never paid much attention to them, because the perception is, wrongly or rightly, that those leagues aren't the best at what they do, and thus aren't worth it. It's the same reason that most people aren't fans of watching swimming or track and field until the Olympics come along.

But ultimately, I'm open to giving the CFL a watch. A lot of people seem to genuinely enjoy it so there's clearly something there.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Ramako

Plus, after witnessing all these silly traditions surrounding the event, I'm convinced that this might be a really fun slice of Canadiana that I've been missing out on.

Did you follow the saga of Marty yesterday? Hilarious and wonderful: http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/#clip812363

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Ramako

Not at all, though I may watch the Super Bowl on occasion.

I'll be honest. I'm one of those fans who tends to follow the city more than the sport itself. While I am a rabid Blue Jays and Raptors fan, and I do genuinely enjoy watching and playing baseball and basketball, if Toronto didn't have a team in MLB or the NBA, I'd probably stop paying as much attention as I do to those leagues. And if Toronto were awarded an NFL team tomorrow, I'd probably start paying a whole lot more attention to football. It's difficult to become invested in a team of strangers unless there's some kind of connection there.

But simply having a team isn't enough. I also have to feel like I'm watching the best talent in the world. So while Toronto does have CFL and MLS teams, I've never paid much attention to them, because the perception is, wrongly or rightly, that those leagues aren't the best at what they do, and thus aren't worth it. It's the same reason that most people aren't fans of watching swimming or track and field until the Olympics come along.

But ultimately, I'm open to giving the CFL a watch. A lot of people seem to genuinely enjoy it so there's clearly something there.

That word sums it all up. Perception. Giver er a try you may enjoy it!

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Exactly. The assertion that the level of talent if far higher in the NFL is a myth that fans of that league like to propagate. Many NFL stars fail miserably when they come to the CFL.

It's probably because they could no longer hack it in the NFL. A player who isn't good enough to make the NFL and does poorly in the CFL doesn't really tell you much. You need to compare CFL players with CURRENT NFL players who are actually playing. It's the rejects that come to the CFL, not the quality players. Do you honestly think if these players were good enough for the NFL they would prefer to forgo the money and endorsements to play in the CFL?

Sorry, the level of quality is MUCH higher in the NFL. They get first crack at the best college players - it's just logical. Otherwise it would be like saying the Swiss hockey league players are just as good as NHL players.

[GlassCity]

To be fair, there's not as much of a disparity between the NHL and the rest of the world either, especially recently. I think the average KHL salary is 60% of an NHL salary, and if you have the option of staying in your home country, or continent either and still make lots of money, I think people will do that.

I think it's only a matter of time before the NHL runs out of many European players. It would be awesome to have a "World Championship" kind of game between the two leagues.

[Steveston]

If you live in the GTA, do yourself a favour and get yourself down to the Grey Cup festivities. Last year, I went down for the parade, walked through the convention centre and mingled with all the great CFL fans from every city.

It was great to see the lack of animosity, the warm welcomes for fans of other teams, and the appreciation of the history of the game.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Berklon

It's probably because they could no longer hack it in the NFL. A player who isn't good enough to make the NFL and does poorly in the CFL doesn't really tell you much. You need to compare CFL players with CURRENT NFL players who are actually playing. It's the rejects that come to the CFL, not the quality players. Do you honestly think if these players were good enough for the NFL they would prefer to forgo the money and endorsements to play in the CFL?

Sorry, the level of quality is MUCH higher in the NFL. They get first crack at the best college players - it's just logical. Otherwise it would be like saying the Swiss hockey league players are just as good as NHL players.

Not nearly as much as you think.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Not nearly as much as you think.

To add to this discussion, I believe I read that it's only something like the top 2-4% of college players that make the NFL, so the next 1% would be the CFL (plus a few that might be in the top tier, but aren't the right size for the NFL (e.g. Dressler)). If people think there is that much of a drop-off from the top 2-4% and the next 1%, they are basically saying college football in the states is overall brutal... in which case, I would like them to go say that in Texas, Michigan, or some other college football hotbed. They wouldn't accept it anymore than we as Canadians should accept it when it is said about our league.

Who cares if they are a richer league, we have a quirky league that is steeped in over a century of tradition (I'm counting the time when it was 2 separate east and west leagues). At the Riderville party today/tonight, there were fans of every team present, all partying together. Good luck finding that in many other leagues anywhere in the world.


Besides, if Russia continues to get richer and the oligarchs invest en masse in the KHL, the NHL might eventually be in a similar position as the CFL. Should Canadians jump ship on the NHL to if it's suddenly not the richest hockey league around?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Do you honestly think if these players were good enough for the NFL they would prefer to forgo the money and endorsements to play in the CFL?

The NFL wasn't quite that big a deal until fairly recently, actually. So there are plenty of examples from the 70s through the 90s where exactly that happened. The most obvious case was in 1981, when Nelson Skalbania decided to make his Montreal Alouettes the class of the league by signing a bunch of NFLers led by quarterback Vince Ferragamo (who, according to Wikipedia, the Als paid $600,000 as opposed to the $250,000 he was making with the Rams, whom he'd led to the Super Bowl in 1979). The cast of expensive NFL stars led the Als to a 3-13 record and Ferragamo turned out to be arguably the worst starting quarterback in CFL history. The NFL experiment led ultimately to the demise of the Montreal Alouettes franchise.

The Argonauts' Anthony Davis, lured north by a million dollar contract in 1976, was another disaster. In the 1990s, the Argos tried again with college star Rocket Ismail, signing him to what I recall was the biggest rookie contract in football history -- he didn't exactly tear up the league, although he was a reasonably good player. There have also been players who have been kicked out of the NFL for drug violations etc. -- the results have been mixed. The fact is that Canadian football is a different game that requires different skills and some NFL players just don't have those skills.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

The NFL wasn't quite that big a deal until fairly recently, actually. So there are plenty of examples from the 70s through the 90s where exactly that happened. The most obvious case was in 1981, when Nelson Skalbania decided to make his Montreal Alouettes the class of the league by signing a bunch of NFLers led by quarterback Vince Ferragamo (who, according to Wikipedia, the Als paid $600,000 as opposed to the $250,000 he was making with the Rams, whom he'd led to the Super Bowl in 1979). The cast of expensive NFL stars led the Als to a 3-13 record and Ferragamo turned out to be arguably the worst starting quarterback in CFL history. The NFL experiment led ultimately to the demise of the Montreal Alouettes franchise.

The Argonauts' Anthony Davis, lured north by a million dollar contract in 1976, was another disaster. In the 1990s, the Argos tried again with college star Rocket Ismail, signing him to what I recall was the biggest rookie contract in football history -- he didn't exactly tear up the league, although he was a reasonably good player. There have also been players who have been kicked out of the NFL for drug violations etc. -- the results have been mixed. The fact is that Canadian football is a different game that requires different skills and some NFL players just don't have those skills.

You are correct to point out that the two leagues were once much closer in calibre. As recently as the 60s and 70s.

Other factors that led to the NFL surging ahead was the explosion of TV money starting in the 1980s. Also, when the NFL started opening up to black quarterbacks this took away a significant niche that was very favourable to the CFL.

I remember in the 70s the NFL only being a passing interest to many Canadian football fans. They weren't indifferent to it, but the bread and butter league that most people followed was the CFL. My dad says that in the 50s and 60s the CFL was even more dominant still.

There were CFL-NFL exhbition games in the 50s and 60s and CFL clubs usually held their own and even won a few of them I think.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by Berklon

It's probably because they could no longer hack it in the NFL. A player who isn't good enough to make the NFL and does poorly in the CFL doesn't really tell you much. You need to compare CFL players with CURRENT NFL players who are actually playing. It's the rejects that come to the CFL, not the quality players. Do you honestly think if these players were good enough for the NFL they would prefer to forgo the money and endorsements to play in the CFL?

Sorry, the level of quality is MUCH higher in the NFL. They get first crack at the best college players - it's just logical. Otherwise it would be like saying the Swiss hockey league players are just as good as NHL players.

A large percentage of CFL players have played in the NFL....I'm not sure the exact details, but the way the NFL CBA works, many average NFLer's are cut after their third year because they would see a significant raise. The reality is the NFL can do that because there are sooo many players coming out of college. It is certainly very different from other north american leagues.

[Berklon]

Well at work today I've heard only 2 people mention anything about the Grey Cup - which is more than normal.

As usual, most of the sports talk centred around the NFL games yesterday - whether it was co-workers or just strangers chatting in elevators or in the concourse.

It was almost as if their own team didn't just win the 100th anniversary of the championship at home.

It is what it is.

[khabibulin]

And in the 50's and 60's the CFL often payed players more than the NFL. It was still not enough though. Most of the players found off season jobs in their adopted cities and became a very visible part of the local community too. Nowadays, less than 1/2 the players on a CFL team stay in the city they play for over the winter.

Originally Posted by Acajack

You are correct to point out that the two leagues were once much closer in calibre. As recently as the 60s and 70s.

Other factors that led to the NFL surging ahead was the explosion of TV money starting in the 1980s. Also, when the NFL started opening up to black quarterbacks this took away a significant niche that was very favourable to the CFL.

I remember in the 70s the NFL only being a passing interest to many Canadian football fans. They weren't indifferent to it, but the bread and butter league that most people followed was the CFL. My dad says that in the 50s and 60s the CFL was even more dominant still.

There were CFL-NFL exhbition games in the 50s and 60s and CFL clubs usually held their own and even won a few of them I think.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Well at work today I've heard only 2 people mention anything about the Grey Cup - which is more than normal.

As usual, most of the sports talk centred around the NFL games yesterday - whether it was co-workers or just strangers chatting in elevators or in the concourse.

It was almost as if their own team didn't just win the 100th anniversary of the championship at home.

It is what it is.

It is... people deliberately going out of their way to not pay attention and not care.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Not nearly as much as you think.

But it is... and the difference is noticeable.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

But it is... and the difference is noticeable.

I watched the Bears/Vikings game yesterday prior to the Stamps/Argos.

With the early game there were;

Dropped passes - one right in the receivers hands
Missed blocks -
Poor tackling -
Lame duck throws -

There was also
Great defence
Superb catches
Perfect spirals

One team won and the other team could not generate a lot of offence

and I was entertained

During the evening game there were;

Dropped passes - one right in the receivers hands
Missed blocks -
Poor tackling -
Lame duck throws -

There was also
Great defence
Superb catches
Perfect spirals

One team won and the other team could not generate a lot of offence

and I was entertained


As a fan I cannot ask for more. I am watching supurbly conditioned athletes giving their all. I don't give a fiddlers fack if they are CFL, NFL, CIS, NCAA, High School or Regina Minor Football. I see kids and men giving their all to compete and I really enjoy that.