LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[RuFFy]

I don't know if anyone notices this, but ever year or so a new wave of forumers arrive and it seems repetitive to many who've been here a long time. I highly recommend that new forumers look at the previous DTLA threads and catch up some on what has happened over many years of this forum. I feel as if that keeps causing conflict in the thread.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

I don't know if anyone notices this, but ever year or so a new wave of forumers arrive and it seems repetitive to many who've been here a long time. I highly recommend that new forumers look at the previous DTLA threads and catch up some on what has happened over many years of this forum. I feel as if that keeps causing conflict in the thread.

I agree.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

I don't know if anyone notices this, but ever year or so a new wave of forumers arrive and it seems repetitive to many who've been here a long time. I highly recommend that new forumers look at the previous DTLA threads and catch up some on what has happened over many years of this forum. I feel as if that keeps causing conflict in the thread.

Bingo. I know that, before I made my first post, I first read through all five hundred or so prior pages of Downtown Rundown. Besides being an interesting experience, but it helped me acclimate myself to not only the current goings of downtown, but the general way of acting on this forum. I think a couple new forumers might benefit from doing the same. After all, remember, this isn't the same forum as SSC

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by HunterK

I didn't say 0 chance.

I'm just being pessimistic because of my daily disappointment for the 8th & Grand project.

Pessimism and a love of urban development never work together.

You learn to be patient especially with DTLA projects. 8th and Grand has been floating along for over 5 years. I moved to Tucson and lived there for 2 years and 8th and Grand hasn't changed. Don't dwell on the bad.

[alki]

New Sci-Arc Pavilion



http://www.p-a-t-t-e-r-n-s.net/sci-arc-pavilion/

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Bingo. I know that, before I made my first post, I first read through all five hundred or so prior pages of Downtown Rundown. Besides being an interesting experience, but it helped me acclimate myself to not only the current goings of downtown, but the general way of acting on this forum. I think a couple new forumers might benefit from doing the same. After all, remember, this isn't the same forum as SSC

So are you saying we newbies need to be house broken; require some lessons in blog etiquette?

[Gram3000]

I understand the frustration with DTLA development. You watch other smaller cities develop dynamic skylines seemingly overnight & wonder What's the deal with LAs skyline? Why soo much slack? Seems like we avg 1 highrise/ per decade Lol

1990: Library Tower
2010: Ritz Carlton
2020: Wilshire Grand

I think if you try to view it all as a "tortoise & the hare" scenario you will understand and truly gain a sense of appreciation for what's starting to take shape DT now & down the road, yes it takes time & demand but Slow & steady always wins the race! (hopefully in our lifetimes) lol

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Thats very different than what their sales rep told me maybe a month ago. I hope that a public park is the new and final plan.




If your'e one of the few Angelenos who actually cares about Downtown you care about every bit of progress, no matter how big or small.

Honestly, what's your deal? Your act is that you're the only one who cares, is that it? That shtick got old a long time ago. You keep photographing and getting hysterical about a certain building and freaking out why nobody else is as obsessed with it as you are. Now you're one of only select "few" who care about downtown? Don't take it the wrong way, but if it's not an act and it's actually how you really are, i'm starting to wonder if you're playing with a full deck.

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by Gram3000

I understand the frustration with DTLA development. You watch other smaller cities develop dynamic skylines seemingly overnight & wonder What's the deal with LAs skyline? Why soo much slack? Seems like we avg 1 highrise/ per decade Lol

1990: Library Tower
2010: Ritz Carlton
2020: Wilshire Grand

I think if you try to view it all as a "tortoise & the hare" scenario you will understand and truly gain a sense of appreciation for what's starting to take shape DT now & down the road, yes it takes time & demand but Slow & steady always wins the race! (hopefully in our lifetimes) lol

5 skyscrapers over 500 ft tall were completed in DTLA in the early 1990s (4 of which 700+ ft). That's not including Library Tower which was done in '89.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Gram3000

I understand the frustration with DTLA development. You watch other smaller cities develop dynamic skylines seemingly overnight & wonder What's the deal with LAs skyline? Why soo much slack? Seems like we avg 1 highrise/ per decade Lol

1990: Library Tower
2010: Ritz Carlton
2020: Wilshire Grand

I don't wonder at all. LA is not nor will it ever be a city known for a huge amount of skyscrapers. I say this a lot but skyscrapers does not equal urban. We will never be a New York or Chicago where all you see is skyscrapers. Hell we barely edge Houston. In LA's case, taller doesn't always mean better. I'd rather see 4 10 story buildings in South Park instead of 1 40 story tower.

[Gram3000]

In LA's case, taller doesn't always mean better. I'd rather see 4 10 story buildings in South Park instead of 1 40 story tower.

HERE HERE! I agree with that! and its slowly but surely its happening now moreso at ground level then sky level, the demand is starting to trickle in so its just a matter of time before we start to see more development on all levels.

[ConstructDTLA]

Alright guys I'm out.

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by BOYCOTT 90210

At least HunterK posts up to date photos, guys. He has no hidden message behind the posts, unlike citywatch. (Thank god for ignore feature).

I just want to say that I didn't make my comment because I wanted to offend anybody. What I've found through the years on this thread is that over time we all kind of catch up to each other. Initially there is friction and I myself was once new to the thread and probably ruffled a few feathers the wrong way. I appreciate Hunter K's contributions and even CityWatch, though she doesn't have a popular perspective really does add the Woman perspective to the thread. That's important. My intention, simply, was to make those who are new aware that there is plenty of very useful information and examination of many different aspects of DT over the years from some very well informed guys and conversation. It's a good chronicle of the growth of DTLA thus far. It's something that re-reading myself would be beneficial. It's not about etiquette either, it's just something that if read would do a lot to increase the quality of contributions to the thread and make it more productive for everyone.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

I just want to say that I didn't make my comment because I wanted to offend anybody. What I've found through the years on this thread is that over time we all kind of catch up to each other. Initially there is friction and I myself was once new to the thread and probably ruffled a few feathers the wrong way. I appreciate Hunter K's contributions and even CityWatch, though she doesn't have a popular perspective really does add the Woman perspective to the thread. That's important. My intention, simply, was to make those who are new aware that there is plenty of very useful information and examination of many different aspects of DT over the years from some very well informed guys and conversation. It's a good chronicle of the growth of DTLA thus far. It's something that re-reading myself would be beneficial. It's not about etiquette either, it's just something that if read would do a lot to increase the quality of contributions to the thread and make it more productive for everyone.

I didn't consider your previous post to be remotely offensive. I actually thought it was very sound advice.

[Just-In-Cali]

Your posts have always been rather thoughtful and balanced, and the same goes for that last one, Ruffy.
Nothing to apologize or explain.

Chef Boyardee, I co-sign that statement.

My misgivings with Hunter's posts started with that diatribe about being "disturbed" by there being what he saw as less than ideal shoppers frequenting the new Target.
That set the tone for what was to come.

He does take good pictures and occasionally added insight, but more often than not, sounded more like 'townobserve's' slightly less amenable little brother.

[Illithid Dude]

Annnyyyywaaayyyysss

Brigham reports that SOM has been selected to design the courthouse. To this, I say yay! SOM has designed some really fantastic stuff over the past few years.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

and even CityWatch, though she doesn't have a popular perspective

And, ruffy, by comparison the popular perspective is what? To complain about new bldgs being too short? About their design not deserving of an award from the AIA? about a new proj having too much parking? A new proj not adhering to Jane Jacobs principles of good urban planning?

Or a new proj not having space on the 1st level for a store?....cuz after all, there's such a shortage of vacant retail spaces in dt. And just about every business in the hood has a long line of customers waiting straight out the door.

Or complaints about a new bldg having walls of the wrong color, or of stucco instead of granite or platinum steel?

When just about any new proj or proposal comes up here, I've rarely not seen at least some forumers complaining about it. talk about a broken record.

At least when I go in this thread & complain about some aspect of dtla, I bet far more ppl in the general public can relate to what I'm talking about compared with all of those who are cuz a new bldg isn't taller or has too much parking, or isn't open enough to the sidewalk.

oh, and I guess I have a hidden agenda too.....I need to pass out tinfoil hats to better communicate with my secret posse!

as for ppl who do get a thrill at a bldg being taller than not, but at least have a reason to cuz they're living the experience, I'll give a nod to these youngsters....

Jessica, tastertotsla.com

You know how when you go to birthday parties or a gathering when there’s much crazy merriment and playing and such involved, you hear those “I’m hungry!” complaints at bedtime? The same thing is likely to happen when there’s a restaurant that comes with an amazing view and a host of other distractions. So I’ll do whatever it takes to get my kids to eat. Or better yet, just go for a snack or drink. But I’m not gonna lie. Going to Encounter at LAX and the rotating BonaVista Lounge at the top of the landmark (though not technically yet) Bonaventure Hotel means overpriced burgers and chicken fingers. The rest of the food isn’t quite worth foisting on your kids, neither from a culinary nor an economic standpoint.

Because both of these historic establishments are also lounges that maintain a residue of the glamorous era of travel and hotel culture beneath their respective unfortunate contemporary re-dos, booze is definitely involved. The BonaVista Lounge used to have light-up LED plastic martini glasses; for our son’s sixth birthday (this was where he wanted to have the Official Birthday Dinner) his ginger ale came in a different celebratory vessel: a ceramic tiki cup, literally the size of a flower vase. And as for the food, the Bonaventure tries a little harder and there’s the corporate steakhouse upstairs to order your ballroom gala dinner from. I’m grateful to eat an heirloom tomato burrata salad 34 stories high.

Other Tidbits: I can rant until I’m blue in the face, but I know we’ll be back to both Encounter and the BonaVista. Because in all sincerity, I have mad love for both of these places and they’re important to L.A. history and culture. The Bonaventure complex is a living example of what NOT to do to create livable downtowns or viable cities in general, and reminds us of the time when people were TERRIFIED of late 19th/early 20th century density and what it hath wrought. That doesn’t mean this structure isn’t significant OR isn’t one of the coolest Portman Associates buildings the firm ever designed. And oh my god, do the kids LOVE it. Soaring glass elevators! Stacked cylinder towers! The drama, sigh…I mean, what a testament to American ingenuity that during a certain point in history, cities decided that adding at least one rotating restaurant was essential to staying competitive in the urban marketplace.



Jessica, tastertotsla.com


Jessica, tastertotsla.com

^ Budding ssp forumers of the future!

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I don't wonder at all.

and you shouldn't, threehundred, since if you draw a connection between what I've raised here in the past, & how that's probably a very, very major reason...a major turn off....why more businesses in LA choose to keep their locations in hoods far removed from dtla, or choose not to locate to dt, you'll be fully aware of why there isn't more demand for highrise space in dtla.

When ppl & their offices continue to shy away from dt, what effect do you think that will have on the ability of a devlpr to build new projs, esp tall bldgs?

Forumers here continue to debate until they're blue in the face about why the wilshire grand tower will or won't be a certain height, or grumble that it won't be taller. In the meantime, they ignore the fact that the hood still has...& long has had....a surplus of office space, more now than just a yr ago. And it's been that way for yrs & yrs & yrs.

and some of those same forumers then resent my mentioning what I think is a prime reason for that. And those reasons are not ones that I point out happily.

[blackcat23]

Citywatch, I think this is the third or fourth time I've seen you drive the thread into a discussion about the high office vacancy rate in downtown and the factors which contribute to it.

For the record, I don't agree with the other forumers going out of their way to criticize you. I don't always agree with what you have to say, but I think there is merit to your point of view. Either way, I think we need to avoid the subject of office vacancy factors completely, since it tends to result in conflict. Last time, if I recall correctly, it resulted in a massive barrage of deleted posts and suspensions.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Alright guys I'm out.

wow, that was quick. we all appreciated your photos, sorry to see you go.