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  #1581  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 4:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ctobsl View Post
Delts, how is this...?


Photo by:Countylemonade - Photo edit by: Ctobsl

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5896092&postcount=1576
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  #1582  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 1:46 PM
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New operator takes control of Salt Lake’s Trolley Square

Retail » Receiver hopes to help troubled owner land new tenants ahead of sale of property.

By Steven Oberbeck| The Salt Lake Tribune

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/55244726-79/trolley-square-trigild-lake.html.csp

Trolley Square has been placed into receivership.

Trigild, a San Diego-based real estate services company, was appointed earlier this week to take over the operation of the historic shopping center. Trigild said its goal is to bring in new tenants and improve the shopping experience for customers in preparation for an eventual sale of the property.

"We are well aware of Trolley Square’s importance in the Salt Lake City area, and we want to do everything we can to maintain and improve it," said David Wallace, general counsel for Trigild...



(Al Hartmann | The Salt Lake Tribune) People shop at Trolley Square Tuesday November 6. Bank of America says the Oregon-based Trolley Square Associates, which operates the Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City, has defaulted on millions of dollars in loans on the property.

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  #1583  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 3:50 PM
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Recently, I posted a pic of the LDS temple under construction in Philadelphia. Of note, was the ability to correctly transpose historical beauty to a new development project. In updating the Odgen LDS Temple project this morning, I ran across this stunning project, which is being planned for Tijuana, Mexico. It's absolutely beautiful, and I would like to see this style and elements correctly developed also in the SLC Metro. In Los Angeles, this building would automatically become one of it's most iconic visual assets. To this day, many of LA's most cherished architectural treasures are of the authentic mission style. It's a style if executed true to form, never loses it's impact.

I guess there must be a school of thought that somehow it's chic to meld historical with comtemporary, but all too often it just looks cheap. If we're going to build historical styles, let's execute them true to their timeless proven design.


www.ldschurchtemples.com

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Last edited by delts145; Nov 10, 2012 at 4:21 PM.
     
     
  #1584  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 5:35 PM
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Hypothetical question:

Would you rather have:

A. 4 new 350-400 footers
B. 2 new 500-550 footers
     
     
  #1585  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 5:59 PM
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Until space becomes a real issue in the Salt Lake Valley, I really don't see a 600ft plus building getting built in Salt Lake. With places like Daybreak and all the construction around Herriman there isn't a huge push for high density construction. Then there is the issue of Salt Lakes large blocks which encourages wider buildings and they can get more square footage without going over the 25 floor more expensive point. Just look at the Wells Fargo Center, it is 25 floors and has 600,000 square feet. Any other city with a 600,000 square foot building would be 30+ floors tall.
     
     
  #1586  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 6:22 PM
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I'd rather see B) 2 new 500+ buildings. But I wouldn't be sad about option A either.
     
     
  #1587  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
Hypothetical question:

Would you rather have:

A. 4 new 350-400 footers
B. 2 new 500-550 footers
Both.
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2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
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5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #1588  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 7:37 PM
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If the designs were unique and not simply boxy, I would honestly prefer A) 4 new 350 - 400 footers.

Height is great and all, but as Steven F pointed out, space isn't currently in scarce supply. With 4 new 350-400 foot towers the city is going to spread out, making more unique places and bringing more people to a large area of the city. I want more than just Main St to be the business and social hub of the city.

Spread the towers a block or two away from Main St. I want to see office and highrise residential buildings in the following places, and I would be fine with 350-400 footers(several of these were already mentioned by JediKermit I believe.

NE corner of 200 S and W. Temple, just west of Capital theater.
Carl's Jr on State and 200 S
Eat a burger on 200 S and Regent St.
The 50 W 100 S, west side of the little white Zions Bank (I would prefer the main height be here instead of on Main.
NE Corner 400 S State
SE Corner of 300 S W. Temple (Zephyr)
West of Harmons.
Shilo Inn
200 S between 200 W and 300 W (across from the post office)

I don't want them all on the corner either, I want to see some different angles when looking at the skyline from different directions. That is why I like the placement of The Regent and Cascade.
     
     
  #1589  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
If the designs were unique and not simply boxy, I would honestly prefer A) 4 new 350 - 400 footers.

Height is great and all, but as Steven F pointed out, space isn't currently in scarce supply. With 4 new 350-400 foot towers the city is going to spread out, making more unique places and bringing more people to a large area of the city. I want more than just Main St to be the business and social hub of the city.

Spread the towers a block or two away from Main St. I want to see office and highrise residential buildings in the following places, and I would be fine with 350-400 footers(several of these were already mentioned by JediKermit I believe.

NE corner of 200 S and W. Temple, just west of Capital theater.
Carl's Jr on State and 200 S
Eat a burger on 200 S and Regent St.
The 50 W 100 S, west side of the little white Zions Bank (I would prefer the main height be here instead of on Main.
NE Corner 400 S State
SE Corner of 300 S W. Temple (Zephyr)
West of Harmons.
Shilo Inn
200 S between 200 W and 300 W (across from the post office)

I don't want them all on the corner either, I want to see some different angles when looking at the skyline from different directions. That is why I like the placement of The Regent and Cascade.
I think I'm with you. 4 350+ footers would really help with density downtown, But I'm torn. 2 500+ footers would really improve the skyline.

That said, realistically, I'm guessing over the 5 years, we will see 2-3 new towers and none will be over 400 ft.
     
     
  #1590  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 9:14 PM
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Thought this was interesting...

U.S. city gets one of the world's fastest networks... for a week

Lucky Salt Lake. The annual conference of Super Computing is bringing 800Gbps of bandwidth with it to the mid-size Utah city.



This weekend and next week in Salt Lake City's Salt Palace Convention Center, there are likely to be more gigabits flying around, and at a faster amount per second, than just about anywhere else on the continent.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-5754...he-worlds-fastest-networks..-for-a-week/
     
     
  #1591  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrendog View Post
Hypothetical question:

Would you rather have:

A. 4 new 350-400 footers
B. 2 new 500-550 footers
I would rather have option B - 2 new 500-550 footers.
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  #1592  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 12:24 AM
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I would love to see 500 footers in Salt Lake, and I really like that photo montage. However, I'm with Future Mayor on this one. There are some major gaps in our streetscape downtown especially on State Street and West Temple. I would love to see something on the Carl's Jr. site. and any of those empty lots in downtown along State Street and downtown.

Here is my list of lots to be covered:

1- Carl's Jr. at 2nd South and State.
2- SW corner of Main and 1st South
3- SE corner of W. Temple and 3rd South
4- SW corner of W. Temple and 3rd South
5- NW corner of 2nd South and 2nd West (convention hotel location)
6- NW corner of 4th south and State street
7- the parking lots between temple square and triad center
8- NW corner of 1st South and 2nd East (Cowboy partners apartments)
     
     
  #1593  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 7:25 AM
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Main Street Video Cams

Check out whats happening on Main Street!

http://www.downtownslc.org/mainstreet
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  #1594  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenF View Post
Until space becomes a real issue in the Salt Lake Valley, I really don't see a 600ft plus building getting built in Salt Lake. With places like Daybreak and all the construction around Herriman there isn't a huge push for high density construction. Then there is the issue of Salt Lakes large blocks which encourages wider buildings and they can get more square footage without going over the 25 floor more expensive point. Just look at the Wells Fargo Center, it is 25 floors and has 600,000 square feet. Any other city with a 600,000 square foot building would be 30+ floors tall.
There is nothing wrong with anything that Steven has said above. In the past years, any number of us have made basically the same arguments. There are many reasons why any number of large companies would go the conservative route of construction in Salt Lake City and build large footprints in the business parks, or simply expand their footprint diameter on a large Salt Lake City block. I am certainly all for more 7 to 20 story development scattered throughout downtown. As was pointed out by Orlando, State and W. Temple could definitely use some infill, and the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

However, we shouldn't use the old psyche that 600 footers just ain't going to happen in our lifetime. Look, there are any number of cities today across the U.S. and Canada that have metros not even half the population of the Wasatch Front. These are cities that are currently building new tallests, or have been constructing new tallests for decades. Do these cities/metros not have vast amounts of empty space? Of course they do, even much more conducive to sprawl than the Wasatch. They are surrounded by vast plains, or gently rolling landscapes that make the Wasatch benches and Traverse Ridge look like Mt. Everest.

The Wasatch Front, and it's Downtown CBD are doing a lot of things right. It isn't by accident that the Wasatch is in a position of rapid and dynamic expansion and growth, that is among the most noteworthy in the nation.

Placing 600 foot Signature Towers in the CBD would be like a healthy guy looking at himself in the mirror with his shirt off. He is reasonably healthy, as he does get enough excersise throughout the week to stay fairly fit. He watches what he eats, and doesn't binge often on high calorie junk food and snacks, etc., etc. You know all the little tricks that we all take to keep off those extra 10-20 lbs. Except now when we look at ourselves in the mirror, maybe our standards of satisfaction have adjusted themselves a little, maybe even a lot suddenly. We look around at what we see in society as the pinnacle of established fitness. Now we are seeing guys everywhere, who look like they just stepped out of a soap opera film set. Or at least it seems that way, partially because of media bombardment. Eight pac abs, developed arms, and superman pecs have suddenly become essential to be considered a chic magnet. We're not talking steroids here, just respectively buff.

Hey, look around at Denver,(even thirty years ago). In the early 80's, Denver had a metro population of approximately 1.4 million people, and the entire State of Colorado had approx. 2.8 million people. Yet, Denver's CBD began it's cycle of new tallests, that still stand as it's defining icons. Now, that also led to some pretty dicey years of empty footage, because of the energy bust, but we're only talking about two or three new tallests here in SLC, one of which at least would be a Convention Hotel, which is past due for demand. It could also be argued that a mixed-use PAC tower and an Austonian style, mixed-use, apartments-for-rent-tower could also be absorbed by Salt Lake's dynamic growth.

Let's point out just two to four other examples, and we won't even use Austin, because of it's huge State wide population. What about plains cities like Calgary, or Oklahoma City? These cities are not even half the metro population of the Wasatch. They are surrounded by vast amounts of empty space. Yes, they are being fueled by energy related development. Referring back to the buff guy. Salt Lake City has more genetic buff potential than most regions could even dream of. Salt Lake City just needs to start lifting the right weights, focused on the right body parts. We're even talking moderation here, and definitely no over the top, muscle head steroids. Well, I guess I will mention Austin and also Charlotte. Their metros have been booming, as have SLC's. Both Austin and Charlotte are not hemmed in nearly as dramatically as Salt Lake's Metro. Both have ample Thanksgiving Point/Eagle Mountain style expansion. Did they really need those new tallest's? They could have just as easily settled for the reasonably fit 300 footers downtown, with a much broader girth. Also, they could have easily built out in any of an endless supply of metro business parks.

Look, I'll try to wrap this up. It is a fact that the world admires the beautiful skyline. Perhaps too much, but it is a fact that can't be avoided. I see it and hear it constantly, and not from just urban nerds, but everyone. Whether they are white collar or blue collar. No matter what part of the globe they hail from, 600-plus footers mixed in to the skyline are drooled over by Men and Women everywhere, even when they are not skyscaper freaks like us. Like the Guy or Gal with the buff body, it has become the social template. The buff bodies and beautiful skylines attract the urban dweller like bees to honey. It can be argued justifiably that having a fit, dense core is enough. Who needs that showy chest, biceps and abs anyway? IMO, Salt Lake City needs the solid core of beautiful, dense streetscape. I think Salt Lake City is accomplishing this in dramatic form, and at an impressive pace. However, Salt Lake City also must lift a few weights, i.e., luring coporate towers to it's downtown. The Wasatch Front has proven itself as an excellent and very seductive temptress. These days, whether its the most prestigious hotels, corporate expansions, latest hot retail offerings, or movie studio expansion and production, Utah figures out a workable way to get them to locate along the Metro. Downtown Salt Lake City needs to show enough healthy vanity to creatively figure out ways to build Calgary style tallests. Even with comparable Daybreaks, Eagle Mtn.'s, and Thanksgiving Point's, along with ample cheap, empty space, other metros, such as Calgary, Austin, Charlotte, etc., have developed a healthy psyche for stunning and dynamic tallests. There is absolutely no reason why Salt Lake City cannot do the same, and break that proverbial glass ceiling.

We travel to Portland, France and Germany to figure out our own formula for light rail and street cars. We refer to countless cities for examples of a better mouse trap for SLC. Hey, let's do the same in figuring out our own formula for new tallests to be included in our CBD. Over the long run, lifting those weights in a sensible but focused fashion, will lead to attractive muscle/new tallests, denser healthier bones, which will be magnets for thousands of urbanista/CBD lovers. Those so called vanity towers/stylish muscles will serve SLC very well in attracting denser infill as it continues to mature.

Two to three dramatically styled new tallests for the CBD over the next five years, are just what the doctor would order for our beautiful Capital right now. That little bit of healthy vanity will only lead to expanded dynamic growth on all fronts for Salt Lake City's Downtown.

Edit, On a side note. I sincerly appreciate you guys and your patience in allowing me to develop a small but growing love of editorializing various opinions over the years.

Last edited by delts145; Nov 11, 2012 at 4:03 PM.
     
     
  #1595  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 3:11 PM
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I don't care much about infill. Salt Lake needs one iconic, landmark building 50 or 60 stories tall that says "we've arrived". I don't know who would build it or when or why. Height does matter when it comes to a city's signature skyscraper. Take a look at any city in the country for examples of this.
     
     
  #1596  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 4:20 PM
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I couldn't agree more Sight-Seer, except I want at least two. One of course must be the hotel. Hey, I would be perfectly happy if the LDS Church were able to build a 40-45 plus story tower for office expansion etc. It would be conservative, but stylish, say like Westgate, with a stylized top and located right on the north side of South Temple, somewhere streetside on those vast parking lots. It could be multi-use and serve partially as room for classroom expansion, church related residential and office expansion. Perhaps, that would be a timely need fulfilled, and it would certainly help to balance out the north lop-sided effect of the COB Tower. Then you move south a few hundred feet with a dramatic new tallest 500-600 footer hotel on 2nd South. Now that would be a beautifully balanced effect.

Last edited by delts145; Nov 11, 2012 at 7:47 PM.
     
     
  #1597  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 4:22 PM
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I cast my vote for two 500+ ers. Tall breeds need to be near. Which will move people downtown in many ways, both for business and living/life.
     
     
  #1598  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 5:54 PM
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Yes I want a new tallest and I think we will get it in the next 5 years, but one tall skyscraper doesn't necessarily draw more people to downtown. It can cause initial interest, but it is a busy street scene with people, retail and shops that make a downtown attractive. One or two new tallest put a large amount of people in one or two spots, while 3-4 slightly shorter towers bring a large amount of people to several areas of the CBD.

Yes a new iconic tower would look cool in our skyline, but one really tall tower can make a city skyline look weak, IMO, it says "look I'm really cool and impressive, but I look that way because the rest of the skyline is weak" multiple buildings creates a more dense look and a more dense feeling on the ground.

Look at it this way, if one new tallest is built than all those locations we have mentioned will still be available for development and depending on commercial occupancy trends after the new tallest is built, demand on those other locations will weaken, which could result in shorter towers being built. Adding multiple tall but not iconic tall towers will take up available land and if demand for office space continues the next ones will be taller because land is limited.

Looking back at the picture of the Austonian as the PAC tower, yes that would look awesome in our skyline, but instead, picture 3-4 towers, around the height of COB, 99 West and Wells Fargo, placed in the following locations, PAC, Royal Wood Plaza, Carl's Jr, and NE corner of 400 S and State. That density would look pretty impressive to me.

One thing that will help the quest for taller buildings is the city's concerted effort to break up the blocks, either with new streets or with pedestrian access cutting through the blocks. The city and RDA is putting a major focus on these things and working with developers and companies that want to build, and requiring these mid block accesses will help to limit the ultra wide base towers, like Wells Fargo. I will say that I am worried a little bit about the potential of the Convention Hotel going on the Royal Wood Plaza block, unless the city can create enough incentives to put a N/S street between the apartments on 300 W and the current post office I fear that the hotel will be wider than we all hope, and won't be a new or close to new tallest like we hope.

I am thoroughly enjoying the discussion regarding this topic, I enjoy reading varying opinions. One thing that we have to keep in mind in order to fulfill our dream for a new iconic tallest, is the ego of companies. I see a new tallest coming as a result of one of two industries, financial or energy. We obviously know that Goldman Sacs has a major presence in 222, and honestly is probably the only reason we have 222. That industry needs to expand in downtown, as other financial sector companies follow Goldman's lead, as another similar company heads to town or makes the decision to substantially grow their SLC office into a major office they will need to be in something either newer or taller, than Goldman Sacs is in. Saying to potential employees and investors, "Look mine is bigger, newer or shinier" Gotta love the ego of banks. A similar result could happen if the energy boom hits Utah, these companies want to look like the big kid on the block and the ego will possibly equal a new tower.

I honestly would not be surprised if Hamilton Partners is actively courting a new financial services company for the PAC tower. The have obviously met the needs of Goldman Sacs and can tout that as they in conjunction with the Governors Office of Economic Development, court potential tenants for the new tower.

One quick note that I forgot to mention from the PAC open house on Thursday. The HKS Architect was talking about the Performing Arts Center and the tower on the model they had there. He mentioned that as they were talking with Hamilton Partners and discussing the model that HP expressed that the someone boxy "tower" on the model needed to go on a diet, meaning it would be a more narrow tower than the model showed, which in my mind equals taller. That in conjunction with the comment that the firm they have hired to design the tower does magnificent work, translates to me into either close to a new tallest or at least a very iconic look to the building.
     
     
  #1599  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 6:55 PM
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A good friend and business partner of mine is also one of the analysts for Goldman Sachs, and he works in 222. He told me that Goldman's interest in downtown has only just started. In fact, his job lately has been entirely in regards to investment in development downtown. I think the next couple of years will bring some very great additions to downtown, and while I agree with FutureMayor about what's most important for downtown, I'd really like to see at least one 500+ building. However, it doesn't have to be the UPAC. I'd prefer we get our new tallest on one of the mentioned prime locations, like the Carl's Jr. site. But still, the UPAC should be over 400'.
     
     
  #1600  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2012, 7:35 PM
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Future Mayor, I agree 100% percent about sticking a 500-600-plus footer in the skyline without another 450-500 footer in conjunction or constructed immediately on it's heels. Just one would look weak. Two 500 to 600 foot towers over the next five years would be an excellent beginning, along with the other infill that is needed. I feel we must be vocal on this forum about it, and come to expect new ceilings to be established. In my mind there is no excuse for not making both the CC Hotel and UPAC taller. We should take every opportunity we can, to encourage those making the decision to give SLC two exciting towers, in the form of these probable two most immediate projects.

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One quick note that I forgot to mention from the PAC open house on Thursday. The HKS Architect was talking about the Performing Arts Center and the tower on the model they had there. He mentioned that as they were talking with Hamilton Partners and discussing the model that HP expressed that the someone boxy "tower" on the model needed to go on a diet, meaning it would be a more narrow tower than the model showed, which in my mind equals taller. That in conjunction with the comment that the firm they have hired to design the tower does magnificent work, translates to me into either close to a new tallest or at least a very iconic look to the building.
^^^
I was very encouraged to hear this!! Also, I think it's going to be exciting to follow the growth and influence of both Chase and Goldman Sachs.

I know this has been pointed out in the past, but someone refresh my memory. Given the plot elevation of the COB, what height would a couple of new tallests need to be, if located at the UPAC site and vicinity of the Convention Center? That is purely for the aesthetic balance of the skyline.

Last edited by delts145; Nov 11, 2012 at 7:50 PM.
     
     
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