Edmonton Public Transit

[MalcolmTucker]

I doubt the P3 fund, which is way oversubscribed already would kick in that large of a contribution. Worth a try - but the city needs the rest of the funds ready to commit first. They may have that from the money freed up by GreenTrip, but I doubt it. That being said can finance the city part via the P3 or provincial loan and fence off a porperty tax hike and some future grants to pay for it. But I doubt they are willing to, even if that was the original plan for the south LRT to pay off via the federal gas tax.

[Daveography]

• Video Link

I have concerns about the P3 arrangement, but this video does get me excited a bit again.

[oiler-dude]

I thought it would... but after seeing it, the capacity issues really jump to the forefront for me. 2 car trains seems the limit due to downtown stations, and that's a major concern for me now that I have the visual to go along with it. =/

[SHOFEAR]

cool.


Here's an artists rendering of a train as it leaves Millbourne Station.



source
http://www.notorietyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/NYC-Graffiti.jpg

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by oiler-dude

I thought it would... but after seeing it, the capacity issues really jump to the forefront for me. 2 car trains seems the limit due to downtown stations, and that's a major concern for me now that I have the visual to go along with it. =/

They haven't decided on whose technology they would be going with yet, so there's no real word yet on train capacity or station lengths let alone arbitrary measurement of "X car trains." No talk of train frequency, either. So basically there are zero variables as of yet for which there can be any cause for "major concern."

[s211]

Originally Posted by RTA

• Video Link

I have concerns about the P3 arrangement, but this video does get me excited a bit again.

I still think that at-grade lines through downtown is a long-term nightmare. Edmonton was ahead of its time with its undergound lines, but seems hell-bent to ape Calgary's mistake now...

Also, the maintenance facilities are in the TOTALLY wrong location. Stick that garbage near the Wagner station. Why use up one of the best sites for suburban office development in the city?

Also don't see any need for the Holyrood and Muttart stops. Holyrood is too close to the Bonnie Doon station, and Muttart? Why at all? So that a few hipster tourists can make their car-free trek to the Muttart?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by RTA

They haven't decided on whose technology they would be going with yet, so there's no real word yet on train capacity or station lengths let alone arbitrary measurement of "X car trains." No talk of train frequency, either. So basically there are zero variables as of yet for which there can be any cause for "major concern."

Well, the trains will be limited by the block length at Churchill Square.

[Coldrsx]

^access to the valley, ski hill, tourist attraction, Edmonton queen, trails? I love this idea personally.

As for downtown, they work really well in many cities, but will take some adjustment (double entendre) to get used to.

[Daveography]

^ I hear so many rants about Calgary's downtown C-Train corridor, but how bad is it honestly? I've ridden the C-Train many times and always found it moves at a reasonable speed across the core. Shorter train lengths are made up for with high frequency. Most importantly, people still use it in numbers far greater than our LRT in spite of these shortcomings.

It's not that bad.

[s211]

Originally Posted by RTA

^ I hear so many rants about Calgary's downtown C-Train corridor, but how bad is it honestly? I've ridden the C-Train many times and always found it moves at a reasonable speed across the core. Shorter train lengths are made up for with high frequency. Most importantly, people still use it in numbers far greater than our LRT in spite of these shortcomings.

It's not that bad.

Calgary's much higher use has nothing to do with whether it's at-grade or not.

They've got a much higher concentrated employment base downtown, and a much better system at connecting the compass points of the city to the downtown. Edmonton? Until recently, it just tracked to the NE.

Ask yourself why Calgary wants its next LRT leg through the downtown to go underground along 8th Avenue... they have literally been there and done that with the at-grade option, and it's a mess.

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by RTA

They haven't decided on whose technology they would be going with yet, so there's no real word yet on train capacity or station lengths let alone arbitrary measurement of "X car trains." No talk of train frequency, either. So basically there are zero variables as of yet for which there can be any cause for "major concern."

The most recent City presentation said 5 minute frequency. So it's all there.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Council votes to move forward with south east LRT leg

A day after city councillors were accused of making a deal to add private funding to the southeast leg of the LRT – council voted in favour of moving forward with building the LRT.
On Wednesday, all but three city councillors voted in favour of moving forward with this part of the project.
The cost of this leg has been slated to cost $1.8 billion – with the city covering a $800 million portion, and then asking other levels of government to cover the rest.

Read more: http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/council-votes...outh-east-lrt-leg-1.999666#ixzz29buFAngd

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by s211

I still think that at-grade lines through downtown is a long-term nightmare. Edmonton was ahead of its time with its undergound lines, but seems hell-bent to ape Calgary's mistake now...

Also, the maintenance facilities are in the TOTALLY wrong location. Stick that garbage near the Wagner station. Why use up one of the best sites for suburban office development in the city?

Also don't see any need for the Holyrood and Muttart stops. Holyrood is too close to the Bonnie Doon station, and Muttart? Why at all? So that a few hipster tourists can make their car-free trek to the Muttart?

It'll work like it does in other larger major metropolitan regions such as Minneapolis, Denver and multiple European cities with much more traffic congestion.

The maintenance facility is fine where its planned. Plus the City already owns the land. These facilities look no different than the large warehouses that exist in the adjacent business parks.

No Muttart stop, are you kidding me. You have some learning to do son.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by s211

Ask yourself why Calgary wants its next LRT leg through the downtown to go underground along 8th Avenue... they have literally been there and done that with the at-grade option, and it's a mess.

Calgary has to run the SE LRT underground because north south blocks where it will operate are too short for trains of enough capacity and there isn't another road with capacity to spare for another surface LRT route.

That being said, Calgary's current addition, the west line will use the surface route too. Even once the SE LRT and the 8th Ave subway is built, LRT from the west to NE line will still use the surface alignment.

The problem with the surface alignment is there is not enough capacity on it to operate with interlining.

Unless you think the new LRT routes in Edmonton will operate above 9,000 (might be able to squeeze it to 12,000) or so ppdph in the near term (20 years) it isn't worth it to build downtown. As it stands the system would likely have bottlenecks at similar levels outside of downtown at high traffic cross streets outside of downtown that would have to be grade seperated concurrently with a tunnel project to increase capacity.

Now, I think it would be more wise to build the 87 Ave alignment for the west LRT, but you still end up with a Millwoods line with no good way to use the downtown tunnel. (I could see a future council reversing the decision on the primary west line alignment by the time it is built, but that doesn't change Millwoods)

[mcc16]

St.albert to west edmonton mall line. High floor

Mill woods could eventually be extended as downtown- whyte ave loop via highlevelbridge

Loop would serve both downtown and university more effectively and provide a link between downtown and whyte.

Possibly alternating trains could serve clareview-century park and clareview-Lewis estates... And st.albert-century park and st.albert- Lewis estates... Frequency would be the same on each individual portion of a leg, but provide alternating destinations at half the frequency for the entire leg... Comprend?

[basilbrush]

That SE LRT video looks too much like a slight-of-hand sales pitch.

It totally skips over all the key traffic intersections where people might be interested to see how this interacts with the existing vehicle traffic. The roads they do show look virtually deserted. After what happened with the existing SLRT along 111 street you'd think they'd try and depict in the video how they plan to mitigate the same potential problems with this line - especially when it has that many level crossings.

Still think this at grade low-floor lrt is a poor compromise solution that we'll look back on with regret. However I'm happy to see some movement on this as it is too late to turn back now - the city has already spent many millions on property acquisition and system design.

[Coldrsx]

While all modes of transportation need to be efficient, giving priority to LRT and making it the 'best' option for more people is something we need to do more of.

[Daveography]

^ Bingo, sir. This "keep car traffic moving at all costs" mindset needs to change.

[s4.audios]

I don't think that mindset will change for a very long time. And it is because it is what majority of commuters want. While I'm all for more public transit, I still would never give up my vehicle and depend primarily on public transit. I believe a very large majority of the public feels the same way; after all, this city's abundance and constant growth of suburban living hasn't occured due to a great public transit system.

Everyone will agree to better public transit; but as soon as it hinders road conditions you will see far more complaints than support.

[rapid_business]

/\ Attitudes are changing, and will continue to change as the LRT reaches more corners of the city. The wife and I have 1 car by choice. Making it work in Edmonton is a little harder at times as compared to other cities we have lived in, but where you choose to live is a big contributing factor to that.