The future of Ottawa's Transit

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As for S-Man's comment on late night routes, I agree. The 90 series as well as the routes running on the main urban arteries (Bank, Bronson, Wellington-Richmond, Richmond-Montreal, St-Laurent...) need to run til' at least 2h30 am, to encourage people to stay in the city after work and to catch the bar crowed and prevent drunk driving.

Couldn't agree more. I know some of these buses already run past 12:30am but here is some of the routes that I think should run later (last run starts between 2-3am):
1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 85, 86, 118. The ones in bold should be 24 hour routes especially on weekdays and Saturdays. The 97 should also be 24 hours 7 days a week. I tried to take the 97 to the airport this summer on a Sunday for a 7am flight to Vancouver and the first 97 gets to the airport at 6:42am on a Sunday. Let's just say I had to bribe a friend to drive me there at 5:45am.

[eternallyme]

The last trips on each route from downtown (Rideau Centre) are shown here. I make my recommendations as well. Some routes do not warrant late night service due to ridership or densities, and some routing changes are also mentioned that I recommend. Late night is after midnight Monday to Saturday and after 11 pm on Sunday. During those hours, Mackenzie King Bridge should be closed (earlier than it is now).

1 to Greenboro

Weekdays 11:31 pm, Saturday 1:06 am, Sunday 11:22 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:31 am (+6), Saturday 2:36 am (+3), Sunday 2:22 am (+6), weekly increase of 39 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 8

1 to Rockcliffe

Weekdays 11:54 pm, Saturday 12:19 am, Sunday 11:46 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Due to the low densities and high affluence in the only section not covered by the 7 as well, late night service is not warranted east of the Rideau Centre. Any northbound 1 trips after those times should end at the Rideau Centre. It could even be argued that service could end earlier on that section.

2 to Bayshore

Weekdays 1:10 am, Saturday 1:31 am, Sunday 12:31 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:10 am (+2), Saturday 2:31 am (+2), Sunday 2:01 am (+3), weekly increase of 15 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 7

4 to Hurdman

Weekdays 11:48 pm, Saturday 1:34 am, Sunday 12:16 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:18 am (+5), Saturday 2:34 am (+2), Sunday 2:16 am (+4), weekly increase of 31 trips. Late night trips should end at Carleton, as demand would be very low on the Carleton to Hurdman section after all classes and evening activities end. Priority order for 24 hour service: 11

5 to Billings Bridge

Weekdays 12:22 am, Saturday 11:55 pm, Sunday 11:15 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Densities are fairly low in the area not served by Lees Station nearby or close to Route 14, and Route 5 is not a core route.

5 to St. Laurent

Weekdays 12:06 am, Saturday 11:56 pm, Sunday 11:01 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Routes 7 and 12 are nearby, and Route 5 is not a core route.

7 to Carleton

Weekdays 12:58 am, Saturday 1:20 am, Sunday 12:07 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:58 am (+4), Saturday 2:50 am (+3), Sunday 2:37 am (+5), weekly increase of 28 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 6

7 to St. Laurent

Weekdays 1:07 am, Saturday 12:46 am, Sunday 12:01 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:37 am (+3), Saturday 2:46 am (+4), Sunday 2:31 am (+5), weekly increase of 24 trips. Late night service should deviate onto Brittany to serve high-density area otherwise covered by Route 5. Priority for 24 hour service: 6

8 to Chaudiere

Weekdays 12:22 am, Saturday 1:02 am, Sunday 11:45 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. This direction is well covered by STO buses which should be extended past 2 am as well.

8 to Billings Bridge

Weekdays 12:57 am, Saturday 1:23 am, Sunday 12:23 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:27 am (+3), Saturday 2:23 am (+2), Sunday 2:23 am (+4), weekly increase of 21 trips. Late night service should end at Herongate area (i.e. Albion/Walkley) as the return loop to Billings Bridge is not necessary at those hours. Priority for 24 hour service: 9

9 to Hurdman

Weekdays 11:45 pm, Saturday 11:44 pm, Sunday 11:20 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Densities are fairly low in the area not served by Routes 7 and 12, and Route 9 is not a core route.

12 to Blair

Weekdays 1:43 am, Saturday 1:18 am, Sunday 12:48 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 3:43 am (+4), Saturday 3:48 am (+5), Sunday 3:48 am (+6), weekly increase of 31 trips. Due to the high demand and densities, 24 hour service should be seriously considered, probably the first non-Transitway route to warrant such. Priority for 24 hour service: 4

14 to Carlington

Weekdays 12:32 am, Saturday 12:27 am, Sunday 11:31 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:02 am (+3), Saturday 2:27 am (+4), Sunday 2:01 am (+5), weekly increase of 24 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 13

14 to St. Laurent

Weekdays 12:43 am, Saturday 12:36 am, Sunday 11:42 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:13 am (+3), Saturday 2:36 am (+4), Sunday 2:12 am (+5), weekly increase of 24 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 13

(16 does not go through downtown after 10 pm Monday to Saturday and 7 pm Sunday, must go to Tunney's Pasture to pick up on Sunday evening. Due to low densities in Sandy Hill and proximity to Lees Station, such is not unreasonable.)

18 to St. Laurent

Weekdays 12:10 am, Saturday 11:21 pm, Sunday 11:26 pm

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Densities are fairly low, and Route 18 is not a core route.

85 to Bayshore

Weekdays 12:33 am, Saturday 1:14 am, Sunday 12:25 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 3:33 am (+6), Saturday 3:44 am (+5), Sunday 3:25 am (+6), weekly increase of 41 trips. Due to the high demand and densities, 24 hour service should be seriously considered, probably the second non-Transitway route to warrant such. Priority for 24 hour service: 5

86 to Elmvale

Weekdays 12:06 am, Saturday 12:50 am, Sunday 11:11 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:06 am (+4), Saturday 2:20 am (+3), Sunday 2:11 am (+5), weekly increase of 28 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 14

86 to Baseline/Colonnade

Weekdays 12:16 am (86B), Saturday 11:29 pm, Sunday 11:23 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:16 am (+4), Saturday 2:29 am (+6), Sunday 2:23 am (+6), weekly increase of 32 trips. This is based only on the 86B branch as the 86C branch is a mix of lower densities and industrial uses, but late night service might be warranted for OC Transpo employees at Merivale garage - a totally different situation. Priority for 24 hour service: 14

(87 does not go through downtown in the late evening; must go to Hurdman to pick up. Due to duplication and low demand to Carlingwood, such is not unreasonable, although later service on the Hurdman-South Keys section of the 87 is probably warranted)

94 to Millennium

Weekdays 12:29 am, Saturday 12:54 am, Sunday 11:15 pm

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 2:29 am (+4), Saturday 2:24 am (+3), Sunday 2:15 am (+6), weekly increase of 29 trips. Priority for 24 hour service: 10

(94 to Woodroffe does not go between Fallowfield and Tunney's Pasture in the late evening; must take 95 to Fallowfield to pick up. Depending on future ridership, the gap might need to be filled.)

95 to Fallowfield

Weekdays 24 hours, Saturday 24 hours, Sunday 24 hours

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Priority for 24 hour service: 1

95 to Place d'Orleans

Weekdays 24 hours, Saturday 24 hours, Sunday 24 hours

Recommended based on schedule - No change. Priority for 24 hour service: 1

96 to Terry Fox/Stittsville

Weekdays 2:41 am, Saturday 2:36 am, Sunday 1:55 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 24 hours (+3 or +5), Saturday 24 hours (+6), Sunday 24 hours (+5), weekly increase of 28 trips. Complete 24 hour service from downtown to Kanata (late night service not warranted to Stittsville at this time). Priority for 24 hour service: 3

97 to Bayshore

Weekdays 2:51 am, Saturday 2:56 am, Sunday 2:16 am

Recommended based on schedule - No change if Route 96 would also run all night to Bayshore. Those are the last trips that run all the way to Bayshore. Priority for 24 hour service: 2 (Tunney's Pasture to Airport)

97 to Airport

Weekdays 24 hours, Saturday 24 hours, Sunday 2:18 am

Recommended based on schedule - Weekdays 24 hours, Saturday 24 hours, Sunday 24 hours (+3), weekly increase of 3 trips. Complete 24 hour service on Sunday nights. Priority for 24 hour service: 2

(98 does not go through downtown in the late evening; must take 97 to Greenboro to pick up. Depending on ridership, more 98s could be extended downtown.)

Why no Priority 12? that would be Route 118.

[eternallyme]

Basically, all routes to/from downtown, except Routes 5, 9, 16 and 18, should be extended until past 2 am (bar closing time). Overall, that would require an additional 398 one-way trips each week.

The priority order for 24 hour service: 95, 97, 96, 12, 85, 7, 2, 1, 8, 94, 4, 118, 14, 86

[eternallyme]

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycou...it%20Services%20Performance%20Report.pdf

More details on ridership and other statistics. It seems local routes saw the greatest decrease in ridership, which is not surprising.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

This may require a rethink in urban design and transit methods. Suburban streets should no longer be spaggetti mazes

The city's aspirational, expensive, and meaningless planning documents have been saying that since the 1980s.

The city keeps approving sphagetti-maze layouts.

They might want to consider not doing that any more. Maybe if they start studying the issue now, they can lay down new precatory guidlines by the mid-2020s, which the developers can promptly start ignoring, and the city can promptly start ignoring, too. Then, by 2030, they can launch a new study of the issue, after 200,000 more residents have been safely housed in Spaghettiville. By 2035, this study will be available to be ignored as well.

LRT should be between suburban areas as well as between suburbs and places of work, which are not necessarily in the centre of town. The downtown area would be better serviced with smaller buses (or streetcars) that would circulate throughout the area.

The downtown area would actually be better served with LARGER buses. There are far too many routes operating on pieces of 40-foot equipment, when artics are called for. The 12, 2, 1, and 7, all used to operate on artics a lot more. The artics have been re-assigned - suburban asses like to sit - leaving the core routes overcrowded.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If the ORT (I will forever drop the "light") ever extends to the outer greenbelt, we should implement zones like Vancouver and many other cities; inside the greenbelt; outside the greenbelt. And no buses crossing the greenbelt so to not have that confusion. Price goes by location of the trip you start at (or if you buy a bus pass or "Presto" bus pass equivalent, where you live).

No buses crossing the Brownbelt? Dumb idea. There are plenty of trip desire-lines where rail transit will never be feasible, and where direct bus routes linking areas on either side of the Brownbelt would result in the quickest service.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

No buses crossing the Brownbelt? Dumb idea. There are plenty of trip desire-lines where rail transit will never be feasible, and where direct bus routes linking areas on either side of the Brownbelt would result in the quickest service.

Best example: Route 118 along the Baseline-Bells Corners-Hazeldean axis which crosses the Greenbelt into Kanata about every 15 minutes most of the day. That is a well-used route that has nothing to do with rapid movements, having to serve local interests in that busy corridor. It is the main route for Bells Corners, which tends to gravitate both ways, and also Baseline Road is probably the top corridor for non-downtown movements. None of those movements would be possible with (L)RT even if extended into Kanata.

The other routes that cross the Greenbelt (excluding rapids and expresses): 130 (feeder which IMO is pointless), 144 (feeder which would likely be split/shortened later), 173 (limited feeder), 176 (crosstown on a major corridor), 182 (peak feeder mainly for businesses), 189 (peak feeder for low-density residential), 193 (peak feeder mainly for businesses) and 199 (peak special purpose for DND).

[J.OT13]

OK, I might have jumped the 🞵🞵🞵 on the whole "no buses crossing the greenbelt" thing.

How about this; no buses from outside the greenbelt heading in the central city (roughly bounded by the Ottawa River, Island Park, Carling and St-Laurent). Now that's just logical.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

OK, I might have jumped the 🞵🞵🞵 on the whole "no buses crossing the greenbelt" thing.

How about this; no buses from outside the greenbelt heading in the central city (roughly bounded by the Ottawa River, Island Park, Carling and St-Laurent). Now that's just logical.

Arbitrary, yes, but certainly not logical.

Carling Ave ends (starts) at Bronson St., which was formerly called Division St. by pre-Ottawa surveyors. Where do you put your southern limit between Bronson and St.Laurent?

Why Carling? Why not Baseline or Hunt Club?
Why Island Park?
Why St.Laurent?

Explain yourself.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

Arbitrary, yes, but certainly not logical.

Carling Ave ends (starts) at Bronson St., which was formerly called Division St. by pre-Ottawa surveyors. Where do you put your southern limit between Bronson and St.Laurent?

Why Carling? Why not Baseline or Hunt Club?
Why Island Park?
Why St.Laurent?

Explain yourself.

Like I said; "roughly bounded by".

We all have different perspectives of what "the city" or "downtown" really is. What I define as "the city" starts on the Ottawa River to about St-Laurent Blvd. We could extend the east boundary to Aviation and include the spillover of the Montfort Hospital and La Cité Collegiale. The boundary travels south to the Queensway and follows it until the Rideau River (can be extended to the south-east transitway) where it follows the previous to the Rideau Canal/Dow's lake. From there Carling to Woodroof where it turns north back to the river.

I know that this definition doesn’t exactly match my previous statement, but again, it can vary.

So, what I was saying about buses from outside the greenbelt should not cross the boundaries of “the city” was conditional on a “fare zone” arrangement like they have in Vancouver. If and when the central city is served by proper transit links and has proper connection to the suburbs (so a completed ORT to the burbs, Carling tram from Bronson to Kanata North and a Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway). In that case, there would be no reason to have buses from the burbs to “the city”.

So why not Baseline or Hunt Club as the southern boundary. Hunt Club does not have any major destinations and is not, and should not be served by rapid transit. Baseline only has Algonquin College and the City of Ottawa as destinations. They are already well served by rapid transit (ORT) and will likely be a local bus transfer, and since it is so close to the greenbelt, it might require buses crossing.

Basically, the boundaries I set out are based on encompassing every major destination that could be served and interconnected by a proper rapid transit system while having a good ridership at every station within the boundaries.

[eternallyme]

I consider the central city to be bound by the O-Train and Rideau River, although you could argue that areas north of the 417 and west of St. Laurent Boulevard (i.e. Vanier, Overbrook, Rockcliffe, New Edinburgh) also belong in that area. As a general rule, that area is primarily serviced by the inner-city local routes that go downtown, and the focal point for transit for that area is the Rideau Centre for transfers, not just as a destination as it is for suburban users.

The inner limits for the 120-199 series (the community feeders) seems to be Tunney's Pasture, Billings Bridge and Hurdman, as none normally go inside of that area (the 185 is the only one that serves stations between that axis, and that is a special feeder anyway).

[Luker]

Presto boss quits provincial agency after failed Ottawa launch


By David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Presto+boss...+launch/7327095/story.html#ixzz289JE273B


OTTAWA — The executive at Metrolinx who was in charge of the disastrous attempt to launch a smart-card payment system for OC Transpo has resigned, the provincial agency said Monday.

Judy Pfeifer, Metrolinx’s head spokesperson, said she couldn’t say anything else about the departure because of privacy rules. Steve Zucker had been executive vice-president of Metrolinx and the managing director of the Presto smart-card project. The cards are already in use in transit systems in Toronto’s suburbs and in a few downtown subway stations there, but crippling technical problems meant that a rollout in Ottawa on July 1 had to be put off till February.

The new Ottawa customers would have doubled the number of Presto cards in use, which was a big deal to Metrolinx, and they were expected to slash OC Transpo’s administrative costs and make taking the bus here much more convenient, which was a big deal to the City of Ottawa.

Metrolinx is having to reimburse the city government millions of dollars because of the delay, and both Zucker and his boss Bruce McCuaig, a former provincial deputy minister of transportation, have had to withstand several scoldings by Ottawa’s transit commission.

Even as the Ottawa plans were falling apart, Zucker promised repeatedly that the system would be in shape for the July 1 launch, which turned out to be wrong.

Before Metrolinx, Zucker was chief information officer at Durham College and has worked for companies that make technology used in electronic financial transactions, though his training is in economics and education.

[email protected]

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Presto+boss...+launch/7327095/story.html#ixzz289JJwbnu

[eternallyme]

Should Ottawa just pull out of PRESTO completely? Then they could do one of two things:

1) Work with STO on adopting their card

2) Create their own card, but that would be a technological issue as well

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Should Ottawa just pull out of PRESTO completely? Then they could do one of two things:

1) Work with STO on adopting their card

2) Create their own card, but that would be a technological issue as well

Am I reading this right that we are adopting a card that can be used in the GTA but won't work to cross the river using STO?

[J.OT13]

Working with the STO is not an option because of their "they are independent and don't need Ottawa, Vive le Québec Libre!" 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

But anyway, I remember them saying a few months back, before all the glitches, that the Presto would work with the STO system.

As far as we are in this whole fiasco, we should just get it done. But I do think that, with or without PRESTO, we should have asked for our own, OC Transpo branded system (red and white, called OC Presto, or whatever).

It would not have been all that complicated, different colour, different writing, same technology and no reminder about the fact that TO is the spoiled brat, and Ottawa will forever be screwed over.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Am I reading this right that we are adopting a card that can be used in the GTA but won't work to cross the river using STO?

That's been known for years now, though it will allegedly partly work with STO and as for the GTA, well now... see below.


As I've written before elsewhere, our municipal politicians and bureaucrats are far more concerned with Queen's Park's dictats and not nearly enough with dealing with the realities of being the national capital located in a metropolitan region that spans a provincial boundary.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Working with the STO is not an option because of their "they are independent and don't need Ottawa, Vive le Québec Libre!" bullshit.

Even so, that wouldn't stop us from adopting the exact same technology. With the same technology being employed by both transit systems, sooner or later they would be integrated. But if we start off with different technologies, that becomes a lot more difficult.

But anyway, I remember them saying a few months back, before all the glitches, that the Presto would work with the STO system.

As above, there will only be partial compatibility:

http://www.octranspo1.com/tickets-and-passes/using_presto

Riding STO buses
You will be able to use your PRESTO card to ride on STO buses (Société de transport de l’Outaouais).

Whether you pay-per-month or transfer from an OC Transpo bus, your PRESTO card will let you board any regular-fare STO bus route. If you use a PRESTO e-Purse to pay-perride, you cannot board an STO bus to start your trip – you’ll have to transfer from an OC Transpo bus, or pay with cash.

If you board an STO Express or Interzone route, cash top-up fare is required in addition to your monthly pass or transfer:

• Express: $0.50

• Adult Interzone $3.05

• Student or Senior Interzone: $2.30

Top-up fare on STO buses cannot be paid with a PRESTO card or OC Transpo tickets.

So... it's going to be half-assed. As usual. And the above doesn't tell us a thing about what STO users will be able to do on OC Transpo buses, either.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As far as we are in this whole fiasco, we should just get it done. But I do think that, with or without PRESTO, we should have asked for our own, OC Transpo branded system (red and white, called OC Presto, or whatever).

It would not have been all that complicated, different colour, different writing, same technology and no reminder about the fact that TO is the spoiled brat, and Ottawa will forever be screwed over.

Oh, but it gets better:

PRESTO cards in the GTHA
OC Transpo has received the latest generation of PRESTO technology – which means the cards issued for Ottawa riders are not interoperable with the PRESTO system in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA). PRESTO cards currently used in the GTHA area cannot yet be used in Ottawa, and vice versa.

The GTHA system will be upgraded later in 2012, and at this point the e-Purse on all PRESTO cards will be available for use on all participating transit systems.

So... we don't really know if we can use our cards in the GTHA and vice versa or not as the compatibility is dependant on us getting our system and them getting theirs updated. The very fact that this is even an issue shows that there are some serious fundamental flaws in the basic architecture of the PRESTO technology. Systems like this should be forward and backward compatible, which evidently they're not if the cards from the older version (GTHA) of the system are not usable in the newer version (Ottawa) and vice versa. It's particularly damning that ours - the newer - are not usable in the older GTHA version since that is generally an easier challenge to solve.


Never mind my suggestion that Ottawa adopt the STO system - perhaps Ontario should just have adopted the Quebec system outright.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Working with the STO is not an option because of their "they are independent and don't need Ottawa, Vive le Québec Libre!" 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

But anyway, I remember them saying a few months back, before all the glitches, that the Presto would work with the STO system.

As far as we are in this whole fiasco, we should just get it done. But I do think that, with or without PRESTO, we should have asked for our own, OC Transpo branded system (red and white, called OC Presto, or whatever).

It would not have been all that complicated, different colour, different writing, same technology and no reminder about the fact that TO is the spoiled brat, and Ottawa will forever be screwed over.

I do not agree with your “🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵” statement and I wish that you would retract yourself. Don’t forget that Skyscrapers is an international organization with HQ in the US and a readership in many countries. What you write as a personal opinion in this forum can be quoted and misinterpreted elsewhere in the world in a detrimental way.

To further your thoughts, don’t forget that we live in a so-called National Capital Area under the governance of five different governments, the most important one being the federal government.

For many decades, there has not been any political will federally to improve the National Capital Area for the benefit of its residents and its governments. Collaboration between OC Transpo and the STO with an integrated fare and scheduling system should have been done a long, long time ago. It’s for us to ask our elected representatives to get moving on this file, not to gripe about it.

For instance, The Prince of Wales Bridge belongs to the City of Ottawa and yet it is rusting away unused while an estimated 75,000 residents cross the Ottawa River both ways each day. To exaggerate a little bit, a measly fare of $3 twice a day over, say, 300 days for each of those 75.000 border crossers would represent a source of income of $135 million dollars a year for the public transportation services.

About 10 years ago, a consultant appraised repairs to the bridge to be about $50 millions.
That report has probably been shelved and nothing done about it. And yet, repairs could have been done, a train or a bus made to travel alternatively on the bridge, and our public transportation would have been better off financially and otherwise.

The City of Ottawa, as well as the City of Gatineau, I guess, is putting too much emphasis on new development and not enough on maintenance and repairs. This has been going on since the 1950’s, after the end of WWII. The roof of the Civic Centre started leaking the year after it was built in 1967. The Frank Clair Stadium needed repairs and upgrading. Nothing was done. Meanwhile, the City opened up a baseball stadium and that, too, is in a state of disrepair.

So, my friend, berating would not do any good. The thing to do is to show the way and ask our elected officials on three levels of government to do the right thing for the citizens who elected them.

[eternallyme]

I blame the bureaucrats at Queen's Park 100% for this mess. The City of Ottawa was coerced into a deal with blackmail.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

I do not agree with your “🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵” statement and I wish that you would retract yourself. Don’t forget that Skyscrapers is an international organization with HQ in the US and a readership in many countries. What you write as a personal opinion in this forum can be quoted and misinterpreted elsewhere in the world in a detrimental way.

So, my friend, berating would not do any good. The thing to do is to show the way and ask our elected officials on three levels of government to do the right thing for the citizens who elected them.

The word "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵" or the whole statement? If it's the word, fine, I can edit it out. But if it's the statement, then no. I grew up in Québec and spent years going to schools jam packed with souvrenist idiots. And a lot of these people are also hypocrites who work or have worked for the feds, others are hypocrites teaching at U of O. And somehow they all forget the billions in federal cash transfers that support Québec, or the fact that their nonsense cost them big businesses (such as the big Banks) to move out of Montreal to Toronto.

As for working with the officials of the three levels of government, now that the separatists are in the “National Assembly”, forget about it.

And yes eternallyme, I also blame Queen's Park for this Presto mess.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Should Ottawa just pull out of PRESTO completely? Then they could do one of two things:

1) Work with STO on adopting their card

2) Create their own card, but that would be a technological issue as well

I am one of the customers who is particpating in the the PRESTO pilot project.

In my opinion, I have no issue with OC Transpo particpating with PRESTO as you could use the very same card on another transit system in Ontario that is also part of PRESTO (once they upgrade to the second generation system). What I have an issue is how OC Transpo/Metrolinx/Accenture joinly made the decision to select Scheidt and Bachmann as the supplier of the card reader device - they should have picked a supplier that could deliver all the features for "PRESTO Next Generation" that have demonstrated reliability.

Now should the provincial government force a transit system to use PRESTO in order to receive gas tax money, like they did with Ottawa? Absolutely not! However, the benefits of PRESTO that I stated in the previous paragraph is based on the benefits as a customer.

Fact: PRESTO Cards can be used on STO's smart card reader (ACS Xerox platform) for bus pass users and transfer users. I've used my PRESTO Card on STO.