Winnipeg Construction

[Mininari]

Nothing really new in here; announces completion of the Penthouse condos, but also has a good summary of condo projects, and the continued push for more condos, urban living, etc.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/condo-craze-158045685.html

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION
Condo craze
Developers unveil upscale downtown quarters, with more to come

By: Martin Cash

Posted: 1:00 AM | Comments: 68 (including replies)

...
It looks like the long-sought urban lifestyle is finally materializing in Winnipeg's downtown.

The first completed project benefiting from the $40-million city-provincial Downtown Residential Development Grant (DRDG) program officially opened Thursday. And there's a lineup of another 1,500 downtown condominium units in development or pre-development ready to come to the party over the next three to five years.

The Penthouse, a 60-unit, $12.3-million, six-storey upscale development at 100 Princess St. in the old Penthouse Furniture building was the first to be finished. The landmark occasion brought out the mayor and the premier in a clear sign of the strategic importance of getting more people to live downtown.
...

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by h0twired

I know you are too young to remember... but most architects and engineers were struggling to find enough work to keep themselves busy in Manitoba during the mid 80s to early 90s.

I wasn't even born yet! Dont forget, I was born in 1993

[jmt18325]

This isn't Calgary (well, I mean, I'm sitting at YYC, so this is). For Winnipeg, the Earls is a huge plus.

[1ajs]

thats one of the busyest earls in the country or something

[jthor]

JamieDavid Exchange - you are absolutely wrong about the row of buildings containing Times Change(d) and beside it being eyesores; the level of detail and interest in those three addresses vastly surpasses a lot of other structures in the area nearby. Yes, of course they could use a little work, but if a building requiring work and not receiving it means it should be torn down, then we should outlaw negligent ownership, we should just get rid of the idea of any preservation and, in the process, a lot of wonderful gems we have saved, restored and made into highlights for our city (the Red River Princess campus, the Union Bank building, the Avenue building, the Forks, the Walker - and soon the Met) would be gone. These buildings greatly resemble the structures you see preserved and loved in such places as Old Montreal, Kingston and Niagara-on-the-Lake. In those cases they all took care to restore such architecture and are now capitalizing on that successful choice. Your viewpoint bespeaks a lack of vision and foresight and is frankly ignorant. As Andy6 correctly pointed out, how do you know they're beyond repair? Obviously Times has been deemed currently fit for occupation. And Bubber Miley is completely right; we don't even know what's being proposed and already people are cheering the destruction of our built heritage. I would be happy for there to be a ton of condo towers on Main, but lets start with the parking lots first (like that left by the foolishly demolished Cauchon/Empire block, or where the Fat Angel used to be - the empty lot 3 "doors" down from Times) and then, when it comes to the older buildings, lets see what we can do in terms of preserving facades or doing something interesting like at the Red River Campus. Its appalling to think that the city would allow for the destruction of a row of buildings over 140 years old.

Also, the idea that the government either outlawing the demolition of these buildings or helping pay for their repair being somehow an aberration against the free market is idiotic. There is no free market when it comes to such things; the reason parking lots in the core are viable is because of a series of intervening choices we as tax-payers have made - for one, giving money to roads over transit. That was a non-free-market choice which allows for a certain kind of business. As to whether we ought to tax lots on their potential value or in some other way, the truth is that either way we are making a choice which represents an intervention in the market; its not a question of intervening but how. I would say that we should tax them higher. I see the argument against that, but other cities have had success with that model and I think we ought to at least try something different - perhaps, to satisfy those who worry about higher parking rates, with some incentive to built parkades (with retail or occupation on the first floor). One further thing: obviously, in a core area, a parking lot at grade DOES count as a vacant lot.

Further, h0twired, I'll take your word that those were tough years for architects and engineers. But that fact doesn't mean that cityplace wasn't busier then than it is now. It doesn't mean that even in the eighties (and, for that matter, early 90s) there were still more stores and more stores (and theatres, etc.) open later in the core than now. I was alive then and I remember that being the case, lining up to see movies there and shopping on a weekday night. Hopefully things are turning around now. The reasons things changed might also involve things like DVDs and downloading music over music stores, but your point that those were hard years for architects means nothing on the subject of the occupancy or vibrancy of night life. Moreover, you say "If what John Scoles has at the Times Change(d) is more than just a location then he should be able to find a spot nearby and do just as well" Well, as the fact that the Wagon Wheel has been having a hard time finding a new location shows, its not like there are a huge number of vacant, small, ground level, street adjacent restaurant spaces in the core area. That situation is worse - because of government intervention - when it comes to finding a site that can host music (because of noise laws) and serve booze (because of Manitoba's byzantine and idiotic liquor laws). It's really not so simple as you make it out to be.

[jthor]

I will say that while I would prefer a more "urban" Earl's, I'm happy something lively is at that corner.

[cllew]

One thing to keep in mind back when City Place was busier was there was a different property management company running the building, then there is now.

The current management company has a different view of what retailers they want then the company back then.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by jthor

Moreover, you say "If what John Scoles has at the Times Change(d) is more than just a location then he should be able to find a spot nearby and do just as well" Well, as the fact that the Wagon Wheel has been having a hard time finding a new location shows, its not like there are a huge number of vacant, small, ground level, street adjacent restaurant spaces in the core area.

The problem with the Wagon Wheel is that the business is a cash-only-under-the-table-business where the current owner is the former waitress who probably doesn't possess the business sense required to move the restaurant to a new location.

Additionally the location the Wagon Wheel is in probably costs them nothing to rent and the costs of moving and renting a new space is more than they are willing to spend.

There are new restaurants moving into downtown and the Exchange almost on a weekly basis. So it can't just be a "there isn't enough space" problem.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by jthor

...its not like there are a huge number of vacant, small, ground level, street adjacent restaurant spaces in the core area.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. R. Galston has made this point in the past. There are fewer and fewer such places in downtown Winnipeg. Small, low rent, street-front spaces provide opportunities for unique businesses. Once they're gone, they're gone. Remember the recent demo of The Orpheum Bldg? Or the former Swiss Inn/ One Night in Bangkok?

Businesses like The Wagon Wheel and Times Change(d) make downtown interesting and unique. Unfortunately, they can only survive in low rent marginal locations. I think it's a net loss for the city when these places disappear.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

This is exactly what I'm thinking. R. Galston has made this point in the past. There are fewer and fewer such places in downtown Winnipeg. Small, low rent, street-front spaces provide opportunities for unique businesses.

Downtown Winnipeg is quickly turning away from its "low rent" past.

This is a GOOD thing as it means the downtown is getting busier and more popular with businesses and residents.

Will we lose some of the grittier bohemian joints? Yes. However in the long run, it is a decent trade. I would give a dozen Times Change(d) bars and Wagon Wheels for a dozen condo towers with a few thousand residents in them.

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Businesses like The Wagon Wheel and Times Change(d) make downtown interesting and unique. Unfortunately, they can only survive in low rent marginal locations. I think it's a net loss for the city when these places disappear.

It is only a loss when nothing replaces them.

In the case of the Wagon Wheel we are losing one restaurant and some class-C office space in exchange for a high end hotel, 2-3 restaurants (one with a Portage Ave patio), Stantec's office moving downtown from the burbs and a multilevel parkade. Not to mention a potential office tower and residence

[armorand93]

I barely even go to local restaurants! Last one I think I went to was Nicks Inn in Headingley, thats it.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Downtown Winnipeg is quickly turning away from its "low rent" past.

This is a GOOD thing as it means the downtown is getting busier and more popular with businesses and residents.

Will we lose some of the grittier bohemian joints? Yes. However in the long run, it is a decent trade. I would give a dozen Times Change(d) bars and Wagon Wheels for a dozen condo towers with a few thousand residents in them.

In my (somewhat different) opinion, Winnipeg needs street-level presence, smaller buildings, and a respect for its past. It doesn't need condo towers. The parts of Winnipeg with towers in them are almost uniformly ugly and dead. On the other hand, the parts of Winnipeg that residents and tourists alike love, which are full of life and beautiful, are the parts in which the older buildings weren't torn down and in which there are no (or few) tall buildings. I don't see why people have such a tough time connecting the dots on that one.

Over and over again, we see efforts to bring back business to downtown beginning by bulldozing real-life businesses that have survived downtown in order to build some new megaproject designed (invariably at vast public expense) to lure businesses downtown. How many more businesses exist in the blocks around Hydro today (or MTS Centre) than there were in those same locations before those buildings were built? I don't know the answer but I'll bet there's not really been much of a change.

[spiritedenergy]

i went to the millenium library plaza. Apart from the questionable style (why so much grey concrete in this city?), the position is amazing! Go seat there and you see buildings on all angles and no parking lots. It feels so urban. I love the Eaton's building... i wish they had kept the on on portage and built the MTS centre on main street on the empire lot or something. Another questionable example of demolitions..

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Andy6

In my (somewhat different) opinion, Winnipeg needs street-level presence, smaller buildings, and a respect for its past. It doesn't need condo towers. The parts of Winnipeg with towers in them are almost uniformly ugly and dead. On the other hand, the parts of Winnipeg that residents and tourists alike love, which are full of life and beautiful, are the parts in which the older buildings weren't torn down and in which there are no (or few) tall buildings. I don't see why people have such a tough time connecting the dots on that one.

Over and over again, we see efforts to bring back business to downtown beginning by bulldozing real-life businesses that have survived downtown in order to build some new megaproject designed (invariably at vast public expense) to lure businesses downtown. How many more businesses exist in the blocks around Hydro today (or MTS Centre) than there were in those same locations before those buildings were built? I don't know the answer but I'll bet there's not really been much of a change.

Osborne Village is the most highest density neighborhood in Western Canada, is it uniformingly ugly and dead with all those towers?

However, I do see your point in certain areas of the city. Portage has a hundred apartments, yet the streets literally dead after 9pm

[1ajs]

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Osborne Village is the most highest density neighborhood in Western Canada, is it uniformingly ugly and dead with all those towers?

It's not clear what the towers contribute to it. Osborne Village's vitality predated the construction of the Evergreen Place towers by at least a decade. In any event, towers are very expensive and risky so it is likely that Winnipeg will continue to see the construction of numerous smaller buildings, which in my view will contribute to building an agreeable and liveable city much more than towers would.

[vid]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

When the bus turned around the corner I thought "What building is this that they're building?"

The facade still looks new.

[roccerfeller]

the airport area is going to look....strange with the old terminal gone.


real strange.


I know the plan is to have the aviation museum take up spot in the old terminal's place, but does anyone think the airport authority might take this as an opportunity to improve the road design? I can see the small loop where the old terminal was being very claustrophobic in 20 years or so when you have a million plus people in the city using whatever future terminal goes up

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It's not clear what the towers contribute to it. Osborne Village's vitality predated the construction of the Evergreen Place towers by at least a decade. In any event, towers are very expensive and risky so it is likely that Winnipeg will continue to see the construction of numerous smaller buildings, which in my view will contribute to building an agreeable and liveable city much more than towers would.

Higher density. To have a nice, viable community without a million freeways and infastructure headaches, you gotta fit an X amount of people into neighborhood Y.

Plus all my friends want to move to the Osborne area. Building underground is ridiculously expensive, and brownstones would cost a fortune to the homebuyer, so that leaves higher-density residential towers! Tokyo is pretty much a skyscraper city, yet look at how lively their neighborhoods are with all those people into an X amount of space.

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

the airport area is going to look....strange with the old terminal gone. Real strange. I know the plan is to have the aviation museum take up spot in the old terminal's place, but does anyone think the airport authority might take this as an opportunity to improve the road design? I can see the small loop where the old terminal was being very claustrophobic in 20 years or so when you have a million plus people in the city using whatever future terminal goes up

I hope they give the road 2-3 lanes, with a seperate bus/taxi only lane with possible land to build the future Airport tram!

Sadly, Phase II of the SWRTC is a longshot (nevermind the rest of the supposed RT system due to no money), so I'll probably die in the 2070s before they finish the damn thing...

[Biff]

I was just in Victoria about a month ago on business. I have to say that I loved the feel of their small downtown. Very few tall buildings over ten stories but loads of street life and hundreds of small one off shops. One day I spent about 4hours just wandering through all the stores (chains mixed in with local stores) and found the experience much different than here in the Peg. Block upon blocks of stores on every street. There were very few gaps, and very few "mega projects". The disappointing part was coming up to their Portage Place type mall in the centre and realizing how disjointed it made the whole network of storefronts feel.....it was needed though as I had to use it's facilities.

I agree with some of the posters here that as cool as these mega projects are for the wow factor, I enjoyed the experience in downtown Victoria and it's crowded streets much more than just about all areas in downtown. The only areas that compared would be The Village and Corydon, but they are just two small, unconnected strips (not block after block of shops) that wouldn't really even be considered downtown.