Calgary Public Transit II

[floobie]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

You could avoid that with the buttons only being active for the first 3 seconds of a 10 second dwell time and then they are disabled, that way the door cycle time is reduced and only the doors that have people at them when the car arrives open.

Something like this:
Train Arrives
Buttons Enabled
Button Pressed = Option 1
or
Button NOT Pressed = Option 2

Option 1
Door Opens
Depart Warning
Door Closes
Reset

Option 2
Button Enable Timer = Done
Button Disabled
Depart Warning
Reset

This achieves the objective of giving the trains the ability to leave on time and keeps the doors from opening when not needed.

I think a slightly psychological approach needs to be taken. People need to feel like they don't have any control over the doors on the train. If they feel that way, they won't get in the way of them. They won't try to negotiate with them to get on. They'll just be an unyielding barrier that opens for a while, then closes, only stopping if it's about to chop your arm off. I like how it behaved on the Skytrain in Vancouver. The fact that the trains are completely automated adds to the effect. There isn't some potentially nice guy sitting at the front of the train who might help you out. There's just a cold, inflexible computer that doesn't give a shit if you don't get on, and won't make any efforts to accommodate you.

It all sounds a bit cruel, but this is a transportation system that moves hundreds of thousands of people around on a weekday. Right now, along 7th avenue, it's entirely too regular of an occurrence for one or two people to throw off the schedule, having cascading effects for thousands of other riders, because they have too much control over the doors.

It could be a bit cold in the winter... but I think it would be worth increasing the efficiency of the trains. And that's coming from someone who finds cold and snow practically vomit-inducing.

[floobie]

Twitter saw fit to show me this this morning:

Nenshi: Hailing the benefits of a reformed taxi system

Saturday, June 2, 2012
By Naheed Nenshi

One of the most difficult issues any city faces is regulation of the taxi industry.

Evidence shows that pure deregulation of this industry rarely works in the developed world. In addition to making it difficult to protect the safety, cleanliness and effectiveness of the system, the economics of supply and demand can result in a system where it is difficult for drivers to earn any money, so they exit, resulting in fewer cabs than before.

But most cities also struggle with the nature of regulation. Whether cabs are restricted through knowledge tests, as in London, England, or through the number of plates, as in most North American cities — from New York to Calgary — cities are always trying to improve the system.

Calgary is no exception. While the taxi system is, for the most part, safe and reliable, there are many areas in which it is under performing.

The rest here: http://www.calgaryherald.com/mobile/story.html?id=6717695

[fusili]

If anyone has any suggestions for Calgary Transit's long term plan (Route Ahead), let me know, and I will try and pass suggestions along to their team. Either DM me or just post here.

[mersar]

Cool video of inside Anderson garage shot by a former LRT operator showing the inside of the garage as he takes a train out to service: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7oLBKo99Tk&feature=related

[DizzyEdge]

So what will it take to get all night transit service in this city? like once an hour after midnight routes, likely the BRT and LRT? That could greatly take care of the taxi crunch.

[You Need A Thneed]

Test Train Crossing the street at Martindale Station:

[fusili]

Here is another blog post by the TransitCampYYC group:

http://transitcamp.ca/2012/06/06/transit-dotmocracy/

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

So what will it take to get all night transit service in this city? like once an hour after midnight routes, likely the BRT and LRT? That could greatly take care of the taxi crunch.

In no particular order:

1. A substantial (double perhaps? More?) boost to operational funding.

2. For there to be a ridership market case for it that trumps the need for additional operational funding to be spent on mainline (LRT, BRT, crosstown trunk routes) weekday peak service.

3. For there to be a ridership market case for it that trumps the need for additional operational funding to be spent on mainline (LRT, BRT, crosstown trunk routes) weekday daytime off peak service.

4. For there to be a ridership market case for it that trumps the need for additional operational funding to be spent on mainline (LRT, BRT, crosstown trunk routes) weekday evening off peak (7 PM - midnight) service.

5. For there to be a ridership market case for it that trumps the need for additional operational funding to be spent on mainline (LRT, BRT, crosstown trunk routes) weekend service.

6., 7., 8., 9. Repeat 2., 3., 4., 5., except insert a good chunk of the community feeder and community shuttle routes in place of the mainline/crosstown trunk routes.

10. For there to be a case for all night service that trumps the case for route/service growth to new communities, and/or network and crosstown connectivity service growth.

11. A champion on council.

12. Satiating the union concerns (quality of life, security, etc.) over members working nights.

I guess the main point to take away from all this is that the need/demand for all-night service takes a back seat to the need and demand for service improvements during the day, especially in light of recent cuts. By a wide margin.

[MalcolmTucker]

By the time we get even close to having substaintial late night service, we will have enough google automated taxis it will serve no purpose.

[DizzyEdge]

Frinkprof

- Would it be cheaper or more expensive to run some articulated busses as shuttles along the LRT lines between midnight and 2am rather than the train?


Also, as far as the doubling of operational finding, I was only thinking of a scenario where there are only maybe 5 routes between midnight and 5am, not the whole system.
So think Routes 301, 302, 201, 202, and maybe 305. That's it, and 201/202 would be bus unless it's still cheaper to run the train.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Frinkprof

- Would it be cheaper or more expensive to run some articulated busses as shuttles along the LRT lines between midnight and 2am rather than the train?

- Wouldn't another item missing from your list simply be "political will", ie if council decided it is a good idea outside of the general funding for the rest of the system?

Also, as far as the doubling of operational finding, I was only thinking of a scenario where there are only maybe 5 routes between midnight and 5am, not the whole system.
So think Routes 301, 302, 201, 202, and maybe 305. That's it, and 201/202 would be bus unless it's still cheaper to run the train.

- My guess is that it would be cheaper to run the train.

- Political will, yes. I included a "champion on council" to account for this, but for the purposes of the exercise, "political will" could be used instead.

- 200 routes, 5 routes, half a route, whatever. The point is that until such a time that the budgeted operating hours (the metric that council approves and allocates Calgary Transit to operate the system) couldn't be better used in umpteen other ways that would be of far more benefit to the system and city, all night transit service ranks right up there with an airport LRT line as a poor thing to be setting at the top of a priority list.

[frinkprof]

It's perhaps a matter of different approaches. Again like airport LRT, I'm not against the notion in and of itself. It's just that other things have to come first.

What I would like to see is service on mainline, BRT and LRT routes gradually expanded to end later and start earlier. Eventually you would end up with all-night service by doing this a half hour of service or so at a time, all while hopefully expanding service during the day/weekends and adding more frequency and more routes as well.

[DizzyEdge]

so it sounds like for it to happen, it would have to not be from the angle of "we're increasing transit service" and more some other angle like "we're going to cut down on drinking and driving/we're going to make the taxi issue less important" based on direction from council, because as you say Calgary Transit itself has higher priorities than late night service.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

so it sounds like for it to happen, it would have to not be from the angle of "we're increasing transit service" and more some other angle like "we're going to cut down on drinking and driving/we're going to make the taxi issue less important" based on direction from council, because as you say Calgary Transit itself has higher priorities than late night service.

How much effect is an hourly bus/train really going to have on drunk driving? Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it, I just doubt that someone is going to wait up to a hour for a bus or train when they can drive drunk, remember these are the people that won't wait for a cab for 15-20 min.

If you said 20-25 minute service intervals, I would think it would have a larger effect, then the train is at most as far way as a cab. Maybe it could be a Friday thru Sunday thing they could make the higher frequency work.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

How much effect is an hourly bus/train really going to have on drunk driving? Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it, I just doubt that someone is going to wait up to a hour for a bus or train when they can drive drunk, remember these are the people that won't wait for a cab for 15-20 min.

If you said 20-25 minute service intervals, I would think it would have a larger effect, then the train is at most as far way as a cab. Maybe it could be a Friday thru Sunday thing they could make the higher frequency work.

Well I look at it like this, you can't drive home drunk if you never brought your car to begin with. If you know that the only way home is to HOPE you can catch a cab, and be outside trying to hail one not knowing if you'll get one in 10 mins or over an hour, then you might just drive to the bar. If you know that a bus is for sure going to be leaving hourly, then you can just time your exit from the bar so that you don't have to wait for the bus very long, and will feel comfortable leaving your car at home. The whole "driving drunk thing" was also in relation to the potential new 0.05% limits which will turn the crappy taxi situation into one where you had might as well assuming taxis won't be an option. So yes, I think the difference between "I wonder if I'll be able to get home if I don't drive" to "I know I can get home on the bus" would be effective.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

How much effect is an hourly bus/train really going to have on drunk driving? Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it, I just doubt that someone is going to wait up to a hour for a bus or train when they can drive drunk, remember these are the people that won't wait for a cab for 15-20 min.

If you said 20-25 minute service intervals, I would think it would have a larger effect, then the train is at most as far way as a cab. Maybe it could be a Friday thru Sunday thing they could make the higher frequency work.

One issue I've always foreseen with the "vomit comet" late night train service is that a lot of people would use it to get to the station nearest to their residence, but then what? Certainly the people that balked at getting a cab from the bar aren't going to call a cab to the station. Walking would be an option for some. What I think you'd see a lot of is people parking at the station, taking the train to the bar, taking the train back to the station and then driving the rest of the way home drunk where they are less likely to get stopped by the police. I suppose in one sense that it diminishes the distance that people are driving drunk.

What about the people that are sure to pass out on the train on the way home? The operator/transit cops probably kick them off at the terminal station, and then what? Are they really that much better off if, say, their "home" station is Marlborough and they are way up in Saddletownehillsridgelakevillewood? This exact situation is something the union would bring up as a safety concern too, I'm sure.

[CTrainDude]

Plus, the benefits of said overnight train service would have to outweigh the importance of the nightly track/system maintenance that takes place when trains aren't running. There's quite a bit of work that goes on after hours, and believe it or not, the other daytime/weekend closures only happen when the work absolutely cannot happen during the non-revenue period.

[elconsulto]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Plus, the benefits of said overnight train service would have to outweigh the importance of the nightly track/system maintenance that takes place when trains aren't running. There's quite a bit of work that goes on after hours, and believe it or not, the other daytime/weekend closures only happen when the work absolutely cannot happen during the non-revenue period.

How about a late night BRT service (of whichever frequency that would be necessary) that goes along the train route?

edit: looks like someone already asked this

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by elconsulto

How about a late night BRT service (of whichever frequency that would be necessary) that goes along the train route?

edit: looks like someone already asked this

There might be a case for a handful of special bus roots that carry people away from the Beltline at 2:30-3:00 AM on Friday/Saturday, but I think it would be difficult to sell this idea to taxi drivers and the communities where drunk people are to be delivered. Like Frink mentioned, there are also other concerns like driver safety and where funding should come from. Perhaps a non-CT service that shares some of CT's resources? Because this market is different than daytime transit riders, I don't think it would be unreasonable for unique routes, security, employees, and pricing that are specialized for the late-night market.

Anything that will reduce drunk-driving and get people home safely will be a good idea. If the market comes to embrace the idea, like some other cities have embraced late-night bus service, it would be great news for the entertainment/service industry in Calgary.

[fusili]

How about more cabs?