Calgary Public Transit II

[Cage]

Originally Posted by fusili

Bikes: Shouldn't be in the bus lane. Dedicated bike lanes on other streets (8th avenue, 3rd avenue, 2nd street etc) should accommodate bicycles..

Thanks for the clarification. This could be an issue with second bus only lane as bicycles will always be attempting to utilize the road space away from cars.

Originally Posted by fusili

[Capacity My greatest critique of concerns about capacity and congestion is that often they use the wrong metric. Congestion should be measured in person-hour delays, not vehicle delays. A full bus is equivalent to 80 vehicles (give or take), so a bus should technically be weighted 80 times higher than a vehicle. The whole point is to increase the efficiency of the movement of people. If vehicles are slowed down, but more people on transit improve their travel time, it is a net benefit and we should pursue it.

Got your critique on capacity and congestion metrics. Could you expand as to how commercial vehicles and other cargo transports fit into your revised metric calculations? I believe a bus needs to be weighted more than a car, but what about bus vs delivery van and bus vs 18 wheeler?

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Cage

Thanks for the clarification. This could be an issue with second bus only lane as bicycles will always be attempting to utilize the road space away from cars.



Got your critique on capacity and congestion metrics. Could you expand as to how commercial vehicles and other cargo transports fit into your revised metric calculations? I believe a bus needs to be weighted more than a car, but what about bus vs delivery van and bus vs 18 wheeler?

In terms of "congestion", which is most pronounced during the rush hours, we need to consider the number of people in a vehicle. During rush hour, it is best to maximize the number of people per unit of road space, because congestion ultimately results from too many people and not enough road space. This is why trains and buses should be prioritized- they are making the best use of space on a per person basis.

Delivery vans and trucks serve different purposes than cars and buses- they are primarily moving freight and packages, not people. As such, their peak periods of use are not during the rush hours, and should be accommodated differently. From my experience in other cities, the best way to deal with large deliveries, is to restrict their hours of operation. Places like New York and Barcelona (IIRC) restrict delivery hours to evenings. This way the roads don't end up clogged with delivery trucks during rush hours. Calgary should consider the same for the downtown.

[fusili]

On another note- if any of you have ideas about ways to improve transit, let me know and I can help you post a blog on our website. Just DM me if you are interested. We are always looking for new ideas and different perspectives.

[Full Mountain]

On a slightly different, but related topic, has the city ever done a study as to the effect that signal prioritization downtown for the C-Train would have? I noticed this on the trams in SF when I was there recently, it seems like it would be a good way to decrease delays and increase capacity until the 8th ave subway can be built, without a significant cost to implement. Does the benefit to the C-Train out weigh the delays that would be caused in the cross street traffic?

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

On a slightly different, but related topic, has the city ever done a study as to the effect that signal prioritization downtown for the C-Train would have? I noticed this on the trams in SF when I was there recently, it seems like it would be a good way to decrease delays and increase capacity until the 8th ave subway can be built, without a significant cost to implement. Does the benefit to the C-Train out weigh the delays that would be caused in the cross street traffic?

Already ahead of you.

The city did a study a few years back that optimized the signals downtown for the train. My understanding is that the signals are now set to the most optimal timing possible for the trains that doesn't totally wreck car traffic. The biggest problem, as far as I know, is where some jackass is holding the train and delaying it enough to miss the green band.

And outside of the downtown, with the gates, the train effectively has signal priority everywhere else.

[You Need A Thneed]

Track testing starts on Monday for the NE LRT extension.

[Jeffsey500]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The biggest problem, as far as I know, is where some jackass is holding the train and delaying it enough to miss the green band.

Somebody has got to do something about those doors... We are way too nice about letting people do that here.

[Offside_Ref]

Originally Posted by Jeffsey500

Somebody has got to do something about those doors... We are way too nice about letting people do that here.

They could start my changing the "please stay clear of the doors" and "one or more of the doors is still open..." to "please do not hold the doors. the next train will arrive shortly".

People are generally responsive to being in the way of the doors, but they don't give a — about the warnings if they're holding the doors open. Maybe they could get the transit cops to stand at the ends of the train to ticket people delaying the train.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Jeffsey500

Somebody has got to do something about those doors... We are way too nice about letting people do that here.

They need to change them so that at a certain point the operator presses a button and the doors close, the only override would be the door edge sensors not the optical sensors at the bottom, not many people will be willing to stick their hands into a closing door to get on a train.

[floobie]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Already ahead of you.

The city did a study a few years back that optimized the signals downtown for the train. My understanding is that the signals are now set to the most optimal timing possible for the trains that doesn't totally wreck car traffic. The biggest problem, as far as I know, is where some jackass is holding the train and delaying it enough to miss the green band.

And outside of the downtown, with the gates, the train effectively has signal priority everywhere else.

My experience is consistent with this. The timing is fine, it's idiots un-knowingly blocking the doors, or holding them for other people.

Our doors need to be much more aggressive. I like the more "metro" approach... all of them open when the train stops, then all of them close at once. Throw in a sensor so people don't lose their arms, but make it pretty unforgiving. ie. The sensor prevents the door from closing on a limb/bag/stroller/whatever but doesn't cause it to open all the way allowing the person on the train. It should be a safety feature, but not a "last minute let me on" feature.

[frinkprof]

Some video flyovers (no sound) of the NW line extension.

• Video Link

• Video Link

• Video Link

[mersar]

Nice. I like the look of the station.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by floobie

My experience is consistent with this. The timing is fine, it's idiots un-knowingly blocking the doors, or holding them for other people.

Our doors need to be much more aggressive. I like the more "metro" approach... all of them open when the train stops, then all of them close at once. Throw in a sensor so people don't lose their arms, but make it pretty unforgiving. ie. The sensor prevents the door from closing on a limb/bag/stroller/whatever but doesn't cause it to open all the way allowing the person on the train. It should be a safety feature, but not a "last minute let me on" feature.

One possible problem with that is it would be freezing in the winter, but then again, maybe it would actually make people stand in the middle of the cars rather than congregate at the doors.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

One possible problem with that is it would be freezing in the winter, but then again, maybe it would actually make people stand in the middle of the cars rather than congregate at the doors.

What if the closing of the doors was automatic but they only opened if someone pressed the button, this would eliminate the issue of the cold, but still allow for a more aggressive approach to closing the doors

[You Need A Thneed]

I can confirm that there is a LRV on the new NE extension for testing. Car 2036 was around the switches here in Martindale this morning.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

What if the closing of the doors was automatic but they only opened if someone pressed the button, this would eliminate the issue of the cold, but still allow for a more aggressive approach to closing the doors

I think the problem with that is if they're programmed to be open for 10 seconds, and someone presses the button at second #8 then they will only open for a second or two. I think the cold issue might not be as bad as I thought.

[You Need A Thneed]

Pictures of the test LRV on the new NE extension:

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I think the problem with that is if they're programmed to be open for 10 seconds, and someone presses the button at second #8 then they will only open for a second or two. I think the cold issue might not be as bad as I thought.

You could avoid that with the buttons only being active for the first 3 seconds of a 10 second dwell time and then they are disabled, that way the door cycle time is reduced and only the doors that have people at them when the car arrives open.

Something like this:
Train Arrives
Buttons Enabled
Button Pressed = Option 1
or
Button NOT Pressed = Option 2

Option 1
Door Opens
Depart Warning
Door Closes
Reset

Option 2
Button Enable Timer = Done
Button Disabled
Depart Warning
Reset

This achieves the objective of giving the trains the ability to leave on time and keeps the doors from opening when not needed.

This is good, we've really needed these extensions for a very long time

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

I can confirm that there is a LRV on the new NE extension for testing. Car 2036 was around the switches here in Martindale this morning.

I live at hamptons, so i'm not very aware of the transit projects.