Canadian City Proposals - Page 254

Nouvellecosse · #**5061** Posted **May 18, 2012, 9:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

Yeah, as much as Gibbroni has a way of putting people off, he's got a point. He's more in to a live-and-let-live style of life, and I don't blame him. I actually kind of fear moving back to NA where everything is so strict.

I've lived in East Asia for 10 years where they take the whole 'do as you please as long as it doesn't displease others' to heart. It makes for much more interesting towns and cities, in the day and in the night. I guess some people don't see the harm in having their local/provincial/federal government telling them where and when they can do whatever, but once you get out of that bubble, it's extremely hard to go back and accept that level of ultra-strict regulation.

We have that here, and it's the very fact that "others" are often so easily displeased that we have so many rules.

I prefer the "do as you please, as long as it doesn't harm others or take/damage their property" mindset myself. Let the others be bloody well displeased if they want. As long as I'm not hurting them, I shouldn't need to care.

The_Architect · #**5062** Posted **May 18, 2012, 10:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gibbroni

Sure! Or Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, Oslo, Amsterdam, Den Hague, Rotterdam, Ghent, Antwerp, Paris, Lyon, Marseille, London, Manchester, Edinburgh, Barcelona, Madrid, Geneva, Zurich, Prague, Warsaw, Moscow, Istanbul, Rome, Milan, Lisbon, Cape Town, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Auckland, Taipei, Hong Kong, Tokyo, NYC, New Orleans...

I'm sure I missed a few thousand civilized cities that aren't stuck in the Prohibition Era.

I live in London, and I can tell you that the majority of bars close at midnight.

Not beating around the bush, you are full of shit.

niwell · #**5063** Posted **May 18, 2012, 12:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

Yeah, as much as Gibbroni has a way of putting people off, he's got a point. He's more in to a live-and-let-live style of life, and I don't blame him. I actually kind of fear moving back to NA where everything is so strict.

I've lived in East Asia for 10 years where they take the whole 'do as you please as long as it doesn't displease others' to heart. It makes for much more interesting towns and cities, in the day and in the night. I guess some people don't see the harm in having their local/provincial/federal government telling them where and when they can do whatever, but once you get out of that bubble, it's extremely hard to go back and accept that level of ultra-strict regulation.

This is very true. However in Gibbroni's (Habfanman's) case everything is a veiled insult at Toronto. Whenever someone brings up Montreal in comparison he is very quick to dismiss it and bring his times in Berlin or wherever. It's all getting very predictable.

telyou · #**5064** Posted **May 18, 2012, 12:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvandelay

And Bangkok is an amazingly liveable city. Not just because you can buy a beer at 7-11 and walk down the street, but that's part of it. They also have fantastic and abundant street food, market stalls everywhere, a tolerant and rich culture, and businesses are not stifled by the over-regulation that is all too common in North America.

Bangkok is a prime example of the "westerner tourist disease". They go there and believe that it's this serene and wonderful place. Try living there and see what the locals have to say and go through and we'll see if you'll be as easily impressed.
Bangkok is used to please dirty old European/American men's every fantasy. Its sex trade is the only reason Westerners love it.

Andrewjm3D · #**5065** Posted **May 18, 2012, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvandelay

He's got a point - Toronto's "entertainment" district is pretty lame. Last time I went there it was full of suburban chain restos. There are some decent bars in TO, mostly smaller clubs and lounges. But it certainly punches below its weight for a city of that size. It doesn't seem like there's much of a drinking culture in Ontario though compared to other parts of Canada.

I can only name 2 suburban restaurants (Hooters and East Sides)in the entertainment district and about 50 none chain independent ones. If by entertainment you mean night clubs that are only open 2-3 nights a week then yes that is dieing off but there is so much more to do in the entertainment district then just get drunk and dance to bad euro trance. Toronto's Entertainment District is morphing into a real neighborhood and not just somewhere young people can get drunk and stupid.

I don't like to assume but I'm going to guess you're not from Toronto, if you were you would know the bar scene has gotten much better here over the last few years. Perhaps the night clubs have been dieing off but the demographics here no longer support them.

caltrane74 · #**5066** Posted **May 18, 2012, 1:25 PM**

Our old friend habsfanmann is back!!! lol!

From what I heard, you need to stay as far away from the bars as you can, you lonely old man.

lol!!

Gerrard · #**5067** Posted **May 18, 2012, 1:45 PM**

Very few of those cities cited are 24hr. And having lived in New York I can say, yes you can purchase a drink at a bar until 4 a.m. -if they are open (hours vary) but New York City has its own brand of peculiar drinking restrictions. And God help the bar with a noisy clientele. It's an extremely regulated city -don't even think about having an open container in public.

Paris is dreadful at night. Restaurants close early and the nightlife is particularly awful for a city of its size and importance. In the U.K. the vast majority of bars close down at midnight, except those with special permits (a relatively new development there).

But London's nightlife is miles ahead of Paris any day. The worst after dark major city though is hands down Los Angeles.

Clubs thrive when drug culture thrives. Bars are a different animal.

I used to live in the Entertainment District and found it awful. when I moved to a real neighborhood my quality of life increased 10fold. I used to club in the ED before it was even called that. The clubs actually played great music and were open almost every night. They were originally places for locals to go versus the whole 905 or alternately T.O. douchebag influx thing that happens every weekend.

But it's not the Entertainment Districts fault really -club culture already died its death in the mid-90s and frankly it's unlikely it'll ever make a real comeback as long as club operators make a conscious effort to appeal to the sorts of people that work on Bay or Wall St. or professional sports or celebutards.

By then I'll be probably awaiting a hip replacement so I won't care.

Having said all that, I do think the liquor laws are way over regulated in Ontario and we can probably thank the MADD lobby for that. The L.C.B.O. needs to be abolished and having the convenience of shopping for your groceries and beer and wine in the same place would be nice. Last call should probably go as well or be extended to at least 4 a.m., not just for Pride and the Film Fest. I'm not even going to get into our silly marijuana laws across this land.

Ontario and Toronto are weird though. You can watch a live sex show and sooner than later visit a brothel but watch your liquor consumption or get a ticket.

But again I'm not sure what's behind the reason for this particular troll's obsession with Toronto and Ontario or why he seems to get a free pass on this site to derail threads and sh*t on other cities when I'm sure if it were reversed and Toronto posters obsessively attacked other towns in Canada, they'd surely be banned.

Ramako · #**5068** Posted **May 18, 2012, 1:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

I can only name 2 suburban restaurants (Hooters and East Sides)in the entertainment district and about 50 none chain independent ones. If by entertainment you mean night clubs that are only open 2-3 nights a week then yes that is dieing off but there is so much more to do in the entertainment district then just get drunk and dance to bad euro trance. Toronto's Entertainment District is morphing into a real neighborhood and not just somewhere young people can get drunk and stupid.

I don't like to assume but I'm going to guess you're not from Toronto, if you were you would know the bar scene has gotten much better here over the last few years. Perhaps the night clubs have been dieing off but the demographics here no longer support them.

East Side Mario's is at Front and Simcoe. I'd be a bit of a stretch to include that area in the Entertainment District.

Anyway, there's also Boston Pizza, Milestones and Jack Astor's, but like Hooters, they're all regulated to John Street (along with the Chapters and the Scotiabank Theatre). There is indeed a lot of chain-retail along that strip, but that's really only a small portion of the Entertainment District, which has slowly expanded to the King West neighbourhood over the last few years, as the area around John & Richmond has gentrified.

It kind of reminds me of Queen West. These days you'll notice a lot of suburban chain retail among the bars and independent shops, such as H&M, Le Chateau, Lululemon and Lush. Accordingly a lot of the independent retailers have moved into West Queen West, which is now teeming with boutiques, galleries and the like.

It's typical. As areas become hip and trendy, rents increase and big name retailers move in to capitalize on the cachet. The smaller, independent ones then migrate over to the next neighbourhood, which in turn becomes trendy, starting the whole cycle over again. What's left behind is ideally a nice mix of chain and independent retail.

Gerrard · #**5069** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramako

East Side Mario's is at Front and Simcoe. I'd be a bit of a stretch to include that area in the Entertainment District.

Anyway, there's also Boston Pizza, Milestones and Jack Astor's, but like Hooters, they're all regulated to John Street (along with the Chapters and the Scotiabank Theatre). There is indeed a lot of chain-retail along that strip, but that's really only a small portion of the Entertainment District, which has slowly expanded to the King West neighbourhood over the last few years, as the area around John & Richmond has gentrified.

It kind of reminds me of Queen West. These days you'll notice a lot of suburban chain retail among the bars and independent shops, such as H&M, Le Chateau, Lululemon and Lush. Accordingly a lot of the independent retailers have moved into West Queen West, which is now teeming with boutiques, galleries and the like.

It's typical. As areas become hip and trendy, rents increase and big name retailers move in to capitalize on the cachet. The smaller, independent ones then migrate over to the next neighbourhood, which in turn becomes trendy, starting the whole cycle over again. What's left behind is ideally a nice mix of chain and independent retail.

And I'd add that the ED isn't really a place that the average Torontonian would visit. You can go to Ossington, West Queen West, Dundas West or even Bloor St. if you want to get your party on. Even the younger gays have migrated into Parkdale and the bars around there versus the gay village which is dying a slow death due to CONDO development and over regulation of a different sort, unrelated to drinking laws (thank the previous City Councillor for that).

niwell · #**5070** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerrard

And I'd add that the ED isn't really a place that the average Torontonian would visit. You can go to Ossington, West Queen West, Dundas West or even Bloor St. if you want to get your party on. Even the younger gays have migrated into Parkdale and the bars around there versus the gay village which is dying a slow death due to CONDO development and over regulation of a different sort, unrelated to drinking laws (thank the previous City Councillor for that).

The Village is also being seen as increasingly undesirable for more those more established in Toronto as it's a beacon for newcomers. If you're gay and come from a small town there's a decent chance you'll move right to Church and Wellesley. Nothing wrong with that but it's understandable why the non-stereotypical gay scene has moved west.

And I'd also add Queen East in Riverside and Leslieville to your list. It's not as much a destination (people don't want to travel to the east end) but there's a lot going on there for those of us who live East of the Don. The Entertainment District is horrid and I'll happily see the clubs die a natural death. For all the condos there's a healthy and increasing amount of office and retail space in the area too.

While we are on a tangent - keep the LCBO as it definitely has it's merits, ditch the beer store and minimum pricing and open up sales for beer and wine to corner stores. I see this as the model we are slowly moving towards anyways.

Ramako · #**5071** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:34 PM**

Torontonians still visit the Entertainment District - not so much to drink and party - but to be entertained. There's the TIFF Bell Lightbox, Scotiabank Theatre, Roy Thomson Hall, Royal Alexandra Theatre, Princess of Wales Theatre, Much Music (occasional public shows and street closures), The Ballroom, various galleries and a host of supporting restaurants. It's just a different kind of entertainment, for a predominately older and supposedly more urbane crowd of yuppies and empty-nesters.

If you still want to party in the Entertainment District, there are still a lot of clubs remaining, but the scene has really jumped over Spadina and onto King Street.

Gerrard · #**5072** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

The Village is also being seen as increasingly undesirable for more those more established in Toronto as it's a beacon for newcomers. If you're gay and come from a small town there's a decent chance you'll move right to Church and Wellesley. Nothing wrong with that but it's understandable why the non-stereotypical gay scene has moved west.

And I'd also add Queen East in Riverside and Leslieville to your list. It's not as much a destination (people don't want to travel to the east end) but there's a lot going on there for those of us who live East of the Don. The Entertainment District is horrid and I'll happily see the clubs die a natural death. For all the condos there's a healthy and increasing amount of office and retail space in the area too.

While we are on a tangent - keep the LCBO as it definitely has it's merits, ditch the beer store and minimum pricing and open up sales for beer and wine to corner stores. I see this as the model we are slowly moving towards anyways.

Yeah Leslieville and Riverdale (even Corktown) are definitely "gay". Not so much for going out but as a community for gay people they are even more gay than say West Queen West and blessedly chain free with good dining options. When I was moving from the ED, Leslieville was definitely my first choice but I couldn't find anything suitable or that I loved. And then there's the whole transit issue...

Ramako · #**5073** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Even the younger gays have migrated into Parkdale and the bars around there versus the gay village which is dying a slow death due to CONDO development and over regulation of a different sort, unrelated to drinking laws (thank the previous City Councillor for that).

Could you specify which condos you're talking about? Discounting all the projects that are currently no more than proposals, I can't really think of more than a couple condos that have gone up in the Village.

The_Architect · #**5074** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:41 PM**

I like the LCBO, it's a really nice liquor store with a huge selection.. It's the Beer Store that needs to go.

Ramako · #**5075** Posted **May 18, 2012, 2:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

I like the LCBO, it's a really nice liquor store with a huge selection.. It's the Beer Store that needs to go.

It will eventually. Government-protected monopolies are poor business models.

Acajack · #**5076** Posted **May 18, 2012, 4:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

I like the LCBO, it's a really nice liquor store with a huge selection.. It's the Beer Store that needs to go.

I think the LCBO are pretty good stores as well.

If you look at Quebec, the government-run SAQ stores still co-exist with the wine sales at grocery stores and dépanneurs. (Though groceries and dépanneurs are limited in the types of wines they can sell - if you want a really good bottle you go to SAQ, and dépanneur wines are sort of stigmatized.)

As for beer, SAQ only sells certain imports like Sapporo, Pilsner Urquell, etc. There is no Molson or Labatt at the SAQ, although grocery stores and dépanneurs do have mainstream imports like Stella Artois, Heineken, etc.