YEG - Edmonton Int Airport

[dansk]

Weird right now their sked only shows that reduction for December for YEG/

[tuffyy]

Originally Posted by s211

They're not connected. What drives me nuts is that YEG seems fixated on doing Corona runs instead of securing flights anywhere else.

Well seeing that Edmonton spends about 6 months out of the year in the deep freeze I can understand why. Most of these flights have very little to do with airport authority's input. These flights are marketed by various tour operators.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^^ I agree. better connections to the US/ Mexico are far more important to me than europe flights.

I guess that makes me a hick

Great EIA numbers.... by memory, that would make April the busiest month ever for YEG.

Don't be so harsh on yourself...your a big thinker.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

s211 has a point though, regardless of poor wording. We've been hearing about these predicted/rumored nonstop flights to Frankfurt and NYC for the past 6 years now. How much longer are we going to wait?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by dansk

Weird right now their sked only shows that reduction for December for YEG/

If you are referring to DL and MSP... I always corroborate schedule info with a minimumu of three sources including the relevant airline's website. Other than over the two week Xmas peak.. 2 daily effective 1 December

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

s211 has a point though, regardless of poor wording. We've been hearing about these predicted/rumored nonstop flights to Frankfurt and NYC for the past 6 years now. How much longer are we going to wait?

Given how much flights from yyc to ewr were cut back due to the recession it makes it complicated. IIRC, at one point 3 or 4 different operators were offering 5 or 6 daily flights on that route. Pretty sure that would absorb almost all the demand from both Calgary and Edmonton.

Key for YEG is getting a flight to ewr launched before Calgary ends up with frequencies like that again, or else it is hard to capture a large portion of the local market that is unwilling to hub in the east since flight time choice is so important. Transportation economics would also point to the route not being very profitable compared to using the unused capacity on existing but presumably profitable YEG-YYZ-EWR route legs.

Lots of hills to climb, but Calgary should never have had a flight using the same measures, so it is possible.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Cage, i disagree with your O&D statement regarding YEG-FRA. First of all, FRA is almost never the final destination from wherever you are coming from unless your are traveling by train after landing in FRA. You can't honestly say that YYC-FRA has great O&D traffic. Who's kidding who, FRA is LH's main hub and connection options are endless. It is a true Star Alliance hub.

YYC-FRA still gets about 40-55% O&D traffic depending on the season. YEG-FRA would see 1/2 that amount and this is where the problem lies.

The second issue against YEG is the lack of connections through YEG. YYC and YVR have their own n/s flights and other Canadian centers are too small to pull any amount of traffic. YMM destined traffic can pull from YVR, YYC, and YYZ.

[LO 044]

^That surprises me. I am also curious what percentage of connecting traffic is from YEG. Well i guess it would be a CRJ filled aircraft at minimum.

Another issue for a YEG-FRA route is Air Transat's charters from YYC to Europe. I know so many that still drive down or fly to YYC to catch a supposed deal on TS. I remember friends of the family that drove down to catch Canada 3000 flights to Europe and specifically Germany all the time.

[Jasper and one o nin]

I know a lot of people who travel back to eastern europe every year. I don't believe that I have ever heard them connect through LHR. Most often then fly to TO and take LOT to Warsaw and then connect from their. There are so many Polish and eastern european population in Edmonton, I would think that LOT would do well and not take away from the current LHR route.

[Rocket252]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

I know a lot of people who travel back to eastern europe every year. I don't believe that I have ever heard them connect through LHR. Most often then fly to TO and take LOT to Warsaw and then connect from their. There are so many Polish and eastern european population in Edmonton, I would think that LOT would do well and not take away from the current LHR route.

This is interesting because the group I mentioned earlier were going to Poland to start their tour and went via YYC - FRA so I guess it depends on the circumstances.

And yes most of the people I have talked to use FRA as a gateway instead of a final destination.

with respect to filling the plane does not Air Canada try to funnel passengers from the states to fill its Europe flights?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

This is interesting because the group I mentioned earlier were going to Poland to start their tour and went via YYC - FRA so I guess it depends on the circumstances.

And yes most of the people I have talked to use FRA as a gateway instead of a final destination.

with respect to filling the plane does not Air Canada try to funnel passengers from the states to fill its Europe flights?

Doesn't really work. Higher taxes and the CDN$ destroyed those late 90s advantages.

Flying someone from an American hub, to a Canadian hub onto Europe just doesn't make very much sense.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Doesn't really work. Higher taxes and the CDN$ destroyed those late 90s advantages.

Flying someone from an American hub, to a Canadian hub onto Europe just doesn't make very much sense.

USA to YYC to Europe accounts for about 5-10% of YYC to Europe traffic for AC. However for airlines like BA and KLM the percentage is 0. LH also had half to worse the amount of USA connection traffic as AC.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by hilman

Ian will be very happy about that!

Heck yes I am!

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

Edmonton International Airport
Passenger Statistics for April 2012

Highlights
• Overall 556,418 passengers (2,191,054 Year to Date)
• Domestic 398,997 passengers (1,549,594 Year to Date)
• Transborder 113,195 passengers (442,010 Year to Date)
• International 44,226 passengers (199,450 Year to Date)
• Rolling 12 Month 6,433,801

Growth%
• Overall 6.6% (7.7% Year to Date)
• Domestic 7.1% (7.5% Year to Date)
• Transborder 8.4% (10.2% Year to Date)
• International -1.5% (4.3% Year to Date)

Very impressive other than INTL

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Very impressive other than INTL

Even international is very impressive with only being down 1.5%, which is just under 700 pax.

Keep in mind that Winter 2010/11 was brutal cold and many travellers purchased late winter season vacation packages to Mexico or Carribean. This past winter was very mild so the late season traffic was a lot less, with some people transitioning to LAS from CUN (for example). International traffic for April 2011 was up 7.7% over April 2010.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Given how much flights from yyc to ewr were cut back due to the recession it makes it complicated. IIRC, at one point 3 or 4 different operators were offering 5 or 6 daily flights on that route. Pretty sure that would absorb almost all the demand from both Calgary and Edmonton.

Key for YEG is getting a flight to ewr launched before Calgary ends up with frequencies like that again...

Lots of hills to climb, but Calgary should never have had a flight using the same measures, so it is possible.

No way did Calgary ever have 5 - 6 daily flights to NYC. At most it was only ever 3 max. And even then it was 2 daily plus a few additional weekly frequencies on CO to EWR.

[MalcolmTucker]

CO, AC, and WJ were all operating at the same time, plus I remember another. (Possibly the other was the AC to JFK that did operate at one point). The point still stands, hard to break into a market when you're trying to start one flight versus multiple hubs with much more frequency and not a crazy amount of time penalty (versus some crazy hub routes in the USA). Sure the time penalty exists, but you have to account for waiting for your flight time vs your optimal flight time in the travel time, maybe not at full value, but it has a value in the decision tree.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

I know a lot of people who travel back to eastern europe every year. I don't believe that I have ever heard them connect through LHR. Most often then fly to TO and take LOT to Warsaw and then connect from their. There are so many Polish and eastern european population in Edmonton, I would think that LOT would do well and not take away from the current LHR route.

It's all about timing. The LOT YYZ-WAW flight arrives in WAW at either 9:10 or 13:00 making connections to other parts of Poland simple either by car, plane or train. Getting to YYZ from YEG is simple as well.

From FRA, LO and LH serve 7 Polish cities with multiple flights per day for most of the destinations. Since all but one (late departure from YYZ) AC and LH flight to Frankfurt, Munich and Dusseldorf arrive in Germany in the morning or early afternoon it is again simple making connections to other parts of Poland either by car, plane or train.

Notice a pattern here.

AC's YEG-LHR flight arrives too late in the afternoon to make connections to Poland work. You wouldn't think that 14:05 is late in the afternoon but for connections to any parts of Poland besides WAW, it is. LHR is not a Star Alliance hub. There is no British airline to get you to certain parts of Poland. You have to either connect in Poland or in Germany after arriving in LHR. Also, don't include the low cost carriers in London being a great city to connect from. First you have to make the trek to Stansted, Luton or Gatwick. Second, pray your AC flight is on time and your LCC flight is on time as well. Third, add xx dollars to pay to use the bathroom and bring checked luggage. Inconvenient to say the least.

The story coming back to Edmonton is a carbon copy of the above. Plenty of connections through Germany or Toronto. Few flights from Poland to London.

LOT's focus, as is everyone elses, is Asia not North America. I always hope but would be surprised to ever see a YEG-WAW flight again.

[dansk]

The LHR route from YEG is perfect for those transfering to much of Western Europe. However, that being said the LHR route is probably mainly O&B traffic, where a FRA route would be a connection route and be timed differently.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Originally Posted by LO 044

It's all about timing. The LOT YYZ-WAW flight arrives in WAW at either 9:10 or 13:00 making connections to other parts of Poland simple either by car, plane or train. Getting to YYZ from YEG is simple as well.

From FRA, LO and LH serve 7 Polish cities with multiple flights per day for most of the destinations. Since all but one (late departure from YYZ) AC and LH flight to Frankfurt, Munich and Dusseldorf arrive in Germany in the morning or early afternoon it is again simple making connections to other parts of Poland either by car, plane or train.

Notice a pattern here.

AC's YEG-LHR flight arrives too late in the afternoon to make connections to Poland work. You wouldn't think that 14:05 is late in the afternoon but for connections to any parts of Poland besides WAW, it is. LHR is not a Star Alliance hub. There is no British airline to get you to certain parts of Poland. You have to either connect in Poland or in Germany after arriving in LHR. Also, don't include the low cost carriers in London being a great city to connect from. First you have to make the trek to Stansted, Luton or Gatwick. Second, pray your AC flight is on time and your LCC flight is on time as well. Third, add xx dollars to pay to use the bathroom and bring checked luggage. Inconvenient to say the least.

The story coming back to Edmonton is a carbon copy of the above. Plenty of connections through Germany or Toronto. Few flights from Poland to London.

LOT's focus, as is everyone elses, is Asia not North America. I always hope but would be surprised to ever see a YEG-WAW flight again.

Thanks. You seem to know a-LOT. I make an effort every year to take the YEG-LHR flight and have no problem transfering. I'm not going to Poland, but I am going to eastern europe, and I can be ticketed with a transfer on a BA (one ticket). I do see your point. Not everyone makes it a priority to fly edmonton first.