DENVER | Transportation Thread - Page 170

bunt_q · #**3381** Posted **Apr 27, 2012, 7:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teshadoh

That will be resolved within a year - RTD will be rolling out new transit passes that you can charge up online.

Uh huh. And Fastracks will be built out by 2017.

To borrow your phrase, RTD is 100% on time, 50% of the time.

...

Sorry... I'm just grumpy. At least they're not going to the ballot this year. Although, the turnout a presidential year would give them might have been a good thing. I am a little disturbed by the notion of not going to the voters until you think they're ready to give you the answer you want, also. But I can let that one slide.

bobg · #**3382** Posted **Apr 27, 2012, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teshadoh

That will be resolved within a year - RTD will be rolling out new transit passes that you can charge up online.

The timeline I saw in February of this year said August of 2013 is when they will start allowing stored value smart cards. They are already 9 months behind schedule so that date could easily move if they run into more technical issues.

They will implement smart cards system-wide for eco pass first, and then period passes(Fall or Winter for Eco, and next spring/summer for period passes). Depending on how the pass implementation goes they will then get to the actual benefit to the riders part: implementing stored value smart cards.

IMO this is going way too slow for something that was implemented over a decade ago in other cities, and for a project that was started way too late.

RTD is still recommending ticket books for casual riders which is the same thing I used in elementary school. That would be like expecting me to still use Windows 3.1 and Prodigy to get on the internet. Payment technology has changed dramatically in the past 20 years and RTD has done almost nothing to keep up.

Cirrus · #**3383** Posted **Apr 27, 2012, 8:41 PM**

Ah, Prodigy. I still remember my usernumber. Still use it, in fact, as a password on other websites.

Brainpathology · #**3384** Posted **Apr 27, 2012, 8:45 PM**

What's the problem with this anyway? If you can by a soda with cash or a credit card why can't you buy a damn ticket to ride on a bus or train? Or fill up a smart card on line with money? It's not rocket surgery! It's not like they are inventing the technology from scratch... or are they? Did the old United automated baggage system folks get this contract or something?

The world already has computers and wires that can conduct electricity, and screens that can project visual images with instructions, and what .. EVERY other transit agency in the world with comparable systems.

"RTD... our mountains took hundreds of millions of years to look this good...and so will our transit system"

bunt_q · #**3385** Posted **Apr 27, 2012, 9:00 PM**

Hey you might be on to something there. We still need a new branding for our system, sooner out later, "the light rail" won't cut it anymore. Maybe it should be some variation on the "glacial" theme. Other cities have rapid transit...well, ours is glacial. Maybe some self-deprecating humor would be good for RTD.

EngiNerd · #**3386** Posted **Apr 30, 2012, 7:45 PM**

Someone posted this in the comments of the most recent DenverUrbanism.com posting.

Its a Google map laying out the Streetcar/tramway lines around the 1930's in Denver. Figured it was relevant to the discussions going on lately.

Red is Streetcar
Yellow is Trackless Trolly
Green is Bus
http://g.co/maps/ve7a9

awholeparade · #**3387** Posted **Apr 30, 2012, 10:37 PM**

Ugh, I ride over the kinda exposed tracks on Broadway & 11th everyday. It kills me a little, every time.

glowrock · #**3388** Posted **May 1, 2012, 9:55 PM**

So, it looks like CDOT is open to a below-grade I-70 "viaduct", including a 700' deck near Swansea Elementary that would potentially be a large park? Sounds good to me!

Aaron (Glowrock)

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20523895/cdot-plan-i-70-viaduct-calls-dropping-road

Fritzdude · #**3389** Posted **May 2, 2012, 12:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock

So, it looks like CDOT is open to a below-grade I-70 "viaduct", including a 700' deck near Swansea Elementary that would potentially be a large park? Sounds good to me!

Aaron (Glowrock)

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20523895/cdot-plan-i-70-viaduct-calls-dropping-road

What does a "deck" entail? I picture something similar in design as the stretch of I-25 running by Louisiana and Broadway, which is roughly a 30' trench. But how do you create a deck or park out of dropping the viaduct if the new road isn't covered (creating a tunnel)?

bunt_q · #**3390** Posted **May 2, 2012, 1:03 PM**

Most of it would look like I-25 through the narrows, yes.

The deck would be an 800' section of tunnel. Best example we have locally is probably Speer southbound at Broadway (there's a small park on the deck behind the Burger King).

Many tunnels (even most in cities) are "cut and cover" tunnels. The trench part just skips the cover - saves a boatload on ventilation, etc.

EngiNerd · #**3391** Posted **May 2, 2012, 2:11 PM**

All they are saying is that they will not bore a tunnel, but will rather just cut a trench below grade and then build structural decks over the trench where needed. It will create a tunnel like effect, but isn't technically a tunnel...like Bunt said with the Speer and Broadway bridge.

Fritzdude · #**3392** Posted **May 2, 2012, 4:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

All they are saying is that they will not bore a tunnel, but will rather just cut a trench below grade and then build structural decks over the trench where needed. It will create a tunnel like effect, but isn't technically a tunnel...like Bunt said with the Speer and Broadway bridge.

Ah.. I see. I guess it's semantics about what actually comprises a tunnel, but traveling 700' underground would seem like it to me. This is the same distance that everyone wishes could be done to the section of I-25 between 20th and 15th.. Think a park throughout that section might be popular?

bunt_q · #**3393** Posted **May 2, 2012, 4:42 PM**

If I had to guess, 15th to 20th would be more like 2500'. Five blocks, 5 streets, 400*5+100*5.

wong21fr · #**3394** Posted **May 2, 2012, 5:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Ah.. I see. I guess it's semantics about what actually comprises a tunnel, but traveling 700' underground would seem like it to me. This is the same distance that everyone wishes could be done to the section of I-25 between 20th and 15th.. Think a park throughout that section might be popular?

Yes, because the poor white folks in the Highlands and CPV areas have had such a hard time and deserve something better given how they've been disenfranchised.

So, a $150 million buyout is what it takes to secure the support of the community for this expansion? That doesn't seem too bad as long as they ditch the proposal for the recreation center/elementary school given the neglect of the city to that area of the last few decades. It's a nice bit of payback. Interestingly, this could also be the last hurrah for a neighborhood that is about to become politically irrelevant thanks to the City Council Redistricting.

bcp · #**3395** Posted **May 2, 2012, 5:03 PM**

why on earth would we need a park from 15th to 20th st? Riverfront park, and the river already spans that and is just 2 blocks from the highway

bunt_q · #**3396** Posted **May 2, 2012, 5:09 PM**

We don't need the park, but I suppose a person could argue that we need to contain the highway noise. That's a question for Ken, if anybody can comment with authority on whether that's worth the expense, it's him.

bunt_q · #**3397** Posted **May 2, 2012, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Interestingly, this could also be the last hurrah for a neighborhood that is about to become politically irrelevant thanks to the City Council Redistricting.

I don't know. If this is done right, and the highway really is, for all intents and purposes, removed from the neighborhood, it could be a gentrification engine. There is some decent housing stock up there. Not great, but some of the last untouched old stuff in the city, so better than most everything else. I'd at least give the area a fresh look for potential properties to buy.

wong21fr · #**3398** Posted **May 2, 2012, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't know. If this is done right, and the highway really is, for all intents and purposes, removed from the neighborhood, it could be a gentrification engine. There is some decent housing stock up there. Not great, but some of the last untouched old stuff in the city, so better than most everything else. I'd at least give the area a fresh look for potential properties to buy.

If the highway is sunk and if the capping provides enough of a psychological connection to compensate for what I imagine will be fewer physical connections than there is a strong possibility of gentrification. Especially since the air scrubbers that will be installed on the Purina plant will eliminate the other undesirable element in the neighborhood. But, at that point, it's still going to be politically irrelevant since it will be overshadowed by the gentrification that's occurring elsewhere (Union Station, Five Points, Whittier, etc). The resurgence of the central urban neighborhoods is already playing havoc with the black and latino political blocs and it's only going to get worse in this decade. The minority populations that are left in Districts 1 and 9 are not going to be kingmakers anymore and that's causing a lot of worry.

Cirrus · #**3399** Posted **May 2, 2012, 8:05 PM**

I wouldn't deck I-25 just to put a park there. I would deck it to do an air rights development that would actually close the gap. If Columbus can make it work then Denver probably can too. That would have been perfect on 16th Street.

wong21fr · #**3400** Posted **May 2, 2012, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This is why I drive:

1. Pouring rain (not RTD's fault)
2. Neither ticket vending machine accepting bills at station (RTD's fault)
3. No other option to pay (not my fault, but tell that to a fare inspector when the time comes)
4. 15-minute headways adding insult to injury.

At least the TVM makes a good shelter...you know, since RTD hardly bothers to provide any other shelter.

EDIT: Even better. Just escorted some Swiss fellow to an ATM... he just couldn't understand why our trains don't take credit cards. I feel his pain. Pathetic. Provincial. I didn't tell him that it won't matter, he still won't have any way to pay. Don't figure they'll track him to Zurich to pay the fine.

A part of me is seriously tempted to seek a court injunction on ALL new rail construction in Denver until we can figure out the little things... you know, like how to accept money. Maybe it'd get FTA's attention, or the legislature, they could order RTD to do a fare recovery study accounting for things like institutional incompetence, as well as run of the mill fare evasion.

Here's something hilarious, the RTD Board just authorized the the purchase of all new TVM's along the SW and Central corridors and the upgrade of TVM's along the SE corridors to accept cash, credit, and debit methods of payment. RTD wanted to avoid confusion for payments for light rail so they only allowed cash since that's all the original TVM's could support even though the SE corridor TVM's are able to accept credit and debit (they are just missing the card readers). Chalk this up to RTD being cheap.