Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[bardak]

The buzzer has put up the Burnaby Mountain gondola business case.

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2012/01/burnaby-mountain-gondola-business-case/

[nname]

In short, the project is on hold but will most likely proceed in the future when a 12 million funding gap over 25 years (or 500k per year) is closed.

And we get the ridership for 4 routes:

135: 21,900
143: 4,500
144: 6,600
145: 13,300

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, it's very efficient from a people-moving perspective (the main advantage being no turnstiles for bus passengers headed to the subway), but it doesn't do anything for the street-life/streetfront retail around the stations when passengers are segregated from the stores (and cannot exit the system).

Point well taken - although (a) they can exit the system if they want to, all they need to do is to obtain a transfer from one of the machines, and (b) I suspect that in many cases people transferring between modes are less likely to want to shop than those who are about to start their trip or who have ended it.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, it's very efficient from a people-moving perspective (the main advantage being no turnstiles for bus passengers headed to the subway), but it doesn't do anything for the street-life/streetfront retail around the stations when passengers are segregated from the stores (and cannot exit the system).

With the exception of Broadway & Commercial and Broadway-City Hall, they probably aren't too different than our existing bus loops at major transfer stations. The difference will come with the introduction of fare gates on SkyTrain (and the line-ups to get through the gates), but I like the idea that transferring passengers can exit the system and shop and jump back on within the time limit of their transfer (i.e. at Metrotown bus loop, Plaza 88 bus loop, future Marine Gateway bus loop or even Joyce bus loop)

Which is why I find Miketoronto's point a bit ironic given he should be judging from the perspective of an urban planner. From a transport-planner or transport-engineer, I can understand why one would favor Toronto's bus-subway model.

From a statistics stand-point, I don't think Toronto's model would contribute to accurate statistical data. For a simple system where people enter the fare paid system on the bus vehicle and disembark at a station, you can track the individual's usage and be able to come up with reliable ridership data. But as a system evolves and expands, this isn't possible.


(via France this Way)

Looking at an extreme example, Paris Metro features lines going everywhere. Relating to a typical North American model, I thought Paris' Metro was equivalent to a North American bus network, just on rail instead with stops a bit further apart. This isn't the case, but let's just say there's a bus running from the Northeast through Charles De Gaulle Etoile, Alma Marceau, across the river to La Tour Marbourg, Varenne, and finally ending at Sevre Babylone, I need to get to St Michel in the centre, and all these stations feature seamless bus-to-metro transfers like Toronto, how is it possible to track people through the system? There are just so many combinations. And by tracking people through the system, I think it allows for transit agencies to obtain more accurate data to figure out where exactly the strains are in the system without having to hire more people to individually count trains (as TransLink currently does right now).

[Xerx]

Just curious: what do people here think of the proposed fare increases for next year? I just realised that hasn't been mentioned on this forum yet.

[SpongeG]

reaction on facebook is negative

i hear its 50 cents? is that how much it will be?

[jlousa]

All the info about the increases can be found here, pretty good read.

http://translinkcommission.org/FaresQandAforPublicJan2012.pdf

[quobobo]

Thanks for the link to the detailed info, Jlousa. Seems like the cash fares increases aren't significantly more than inflation but the FareSaver and monthly pass increases are.

Personally I'm glad to see Translink charging more (transit prices are really low here, and somebody has to pay for expanded service), but reaction among my friends and coworkers has been unsurprisingly negative.

[simonfiction]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Thanks for the link to the detailed info, Jlousa. Seems like the cash fares increases aren't significantly more than inflation but the FareSaver and monthly pass increases are.

Personally I'm glad to see Translink charging more (transit prices are really low here, and somebody has to pay for expanded service), but reaction among my friends and coworkers has been unsurprisingly negative.

Am I right in thinking this fare hike represents just 2.9% of Translink's revenue? If so, it seems like a relatively large fare hike and burden on the transit user for very little gain.

I've always been of the opinion that low fares help encourage ridership. Ridership helps justify investment. I imagine a lot of people being able to get better value-for-money from driving after this hike, turning back to their cars.

[jlousa]

3% might sound like much but that's a huge amount in a budget that size of Translink. Also when you break the increase down over the years since the last increase, most of them are just covering inflation, there are a few exceptions.
I'm not sure switching to driving is on the agenda for most users, as those that wish to drive probably already are, the ones on the fence also have to contend with another gas tax increase coming this April, plus the Port Mann tolls coming as well. Not sure the numbers would crunch for most transit users.

[agrant]

2.25 in 2005, upped to 2.50 in 2008... I'm not at all surprised.

[roleypolinde]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little bitter about having the cost of my yearly pass go up $200 since I moved here in 2008 for a bus service that never picked me up until I went on a non-stop campaign to complain about it over last year.

Still waiting for the 49 to be fixed properly. Then we'll talk

[nname]

Those who support the increase most likely won't say anything, its the opposing ones who usually speak out.

Those who complain will still taking transit after the fare increase; those who really going to switch to driving will quietly do so without complaining, as they don't care anymore.

[WarrenC12]

Unfortunately the UPass killed Translink's average revenue per rider. I'm ok with a hike in cash fares, less so with a hike in fare tickets, they went up not too long ago.

However it all remains to be seen what pricing and zoning will look like under the new farecard system.

[LeftCoaster]

Guys keep in mind headline CPI inflation is running at 2.9% in Canada, with the largest increases seen in energy up 13.5% LTM to November.

This fare increase is just keeping up with headline inflation and is probably not even keeping up with translinks' own cost inflation.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by roleypolinde

You'll have to forgive me if I'm a little bitter about having the cost of my yearly pass go up $200 since I moved here in 2008 for a bus service that never picked me up until I went on a non-stop campaign to complain about it over last year.

Still waiting for the 49 to be fixed properly. Then we'll talk

Don't forget that in 2007-2008, there was a long-needed expansion of bus service to SOF which unfortunately caused a structural deficit to start to grow in TL, leading to threats of cancelling service before tax and fare increases were pushed thru.

It's now clear to TL that any expansion to the system has to be met with a funding increase, and if it's not coming from victoria, it's coming from metro.
http://www.translinkcommission.org/CommissReport2010TenYearPlan.pdf (pg10)

As mentioned, drivers will get that fuel tax increase in april, and somewhere the vehicle levy is waiting in the wings.

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/OCG/ias/pdf_Docs/transportation_governance.pdf
(2009)

page 79 - no fare increse in 2005-2007, the fare increase in 2008 did not even cover inflation for the period before, let alone thecost of expansion.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Thanks for the link to the detailed info, Jlousa. Seems like the cash fares increases aren't significantly more than inflation but the FareSaver and monthly pass increases are.

The increases in cash fares have outstripped the other fare increases over the last few rounds, so it's time for the other fares to play a little catch-up.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Unfortunately the UPass killed Translink's average revenue per rider. I'm ok with a hike in cash fares, less so with a hike in fare tickets, they went up not too long ago.

However it all remains to be seen what pricing and zoning will look like under the new farecard system.

I contacted Translink through Twitter yesterday regarding distance based pricing. This is what they had to say:

It's something that we will look at after Compass launches.Current system will stay for a bit while we gather data.^DA

Seems like we'll have zones for at least another 2 years.

[jlousa]

Probably longer, my impression is the change will not happen till the next scheduled increases in 2016, but we'll see.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Xerx

Just curious: what do people here think of the proposed fare increases for next year? I just realised that hasn't been mentioned on this forum yet.

I'm all for it. If the system's strapped for cash, you can't 🞵🞵🞵🞵 at the teat of other tax sources forever.