Edmonton Construction 11 (November 2011)

[s211]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

And another, from Procuras website

The Grace, redux?

[ABF]

^No, they're different land. The first one is the park on the SE corner of Jasper and 100 Street. The second is shown built on top of the parkade in behind the MacDonald Estates apartment tower.

[Kevin_foster]

I like the (concept of the) second tower.

I do not like the sketch up rendering. Makes it look like a stucco building. I can imagine the materials would be similar to bankers hall in yyc.

[Kevin_foster]

Originally Posted by ABF

^No, they're different land. The first one is the park on the SE corner of Jasper and 100 Street. The second is shown built on top of the parkade in behind the MacDonald Estates apartment tower.

Yeah after studying it, I noticed the second pic is looking north from the valley.

[TimB09]

So what are the chances of these projects actually happening? I'm going to go with slim...

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

i didnt need the remand centre to make me to not want to live in oxford

I owe you a pint sir.

[77mmFilters]

The 40 story office tower appears to be a remake of the original 2007 EPCOR RFP proposal that was to be built on 104 Ave. The sloped overhanging glass wall, and top gallery, were features in that structure as well. Procura should have a fairly good grasp on both schedule and costs but will have to work with the projected vacancy rates 3 years out from start of construction.

[Coldrsx]

RE: Procura

They are 'marketing' a 44 storey office on their 'park', but this new tower rendering is on the other little slice they have IN FRONT(south) of the parkade. Very reminiscent of Montana and in Calgary. I don't mind it at all.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by 77mmFilters

The 40 story office tower appears to be a remake of the original 2007 EPCOR RFP proposal that was to be built on 104 Ave. The sloped overhanging glass wall, and top gallery, were features in that structure as well. Procura should have a fairly good grasp on both schedule and costs but will have to work with the projected vacancy rates 3 years out from start of construction.

Perhaps use a different filter.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by ABF

^No, they're different land. The first one is the park on the SE corner of Jasper and 100 Street. The second is shown built on top of the parkade in behind the MacDonald Estates apartment tower.

that looks to me more like it's on the macdonald's valet parking lot which is south of the annex's parkade and there's too much distance between this and the south face of the annex (you can see that in the sketch) for it to extend over the annex's parkade (which is not an independent structure but part of the annex's construction).

[Coldrsx]

Market for Edmonton office space to pick up in 2012: forecasts

Higher vacancy rate was expected because of new Epcor building

BY LEWIS KELLY, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM NOVEMBER 28, 2011



The market for Edmonton office space is looking up in 2012, according to commercial real estate forecasts
Photograph by: John Lucas, edmontonjournal.com
EDMONTON — The market for office space in Edmonton will pick up steam next year, say forecasts released Monday by CBRE and Cushman & Wakefield. But though both firms predict an increase in leasing activity in 2012, they disagree about some specifics.

The Cushman & Wakefield report forecasts the office space vacancy rate for downtown Edmonton increasing from 7.2 per cent in Q3 2011 to 9.7 per cent in 2012. According to its report, CBRE foresees a decline from 10.3 per cent to 9.1 per cent over that period.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/...e+pick+2012+forecasts/5780123/story.html

[240glt]

I know we've leased a quarter million s.f. This year

It doesn't seem from the article that the real estate "specialists" even know what our current rate is. In any case, there is a lot of activity out there right now

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

RE: Procura

They are 'marketing' a 44 storey office on their 'park', but this new tower rendering is on the other little slice they have IN FRONT(south) of the parkade. Very reminiscent of Montana and in Calgary. I don't mind it at all.

Yes indeed. Although the new concept we see was recently born. I believe at one time they were looking at selling this parcel, but it looks like they may not be. Then again, no one really knows what George S may do. He has a tendency of changing his mind quite often. . I do know that Mayfair and Century Park are priorities.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I know we've leased a quarter million s.f. This year

It doesn't seem from the article that the real estate "specialists" even know what our current rate is. In any case, there is a lot of activity out there right now

it's not that "none of them know"... their data bases are their own and they're not identical and they don't always treat transactions and/or vacancy quite the same way.

as examples, the unleased space in epcor tower may or may not be treated as current vacancy - it is available for lease but not yet finished. the epcor space in the tower may or may not be treated as current vacancy - it is not availailable for lease but it is not occupied.

epcor centre space may or may not be treated as current vacancy - it is available for lease but the current lease has not yet expired and some of the space is still occupied while some of it is not.

the [provincial] federal building is another interesting example. should it be included in inventory or not? it's vacant but not able to be occupied although it was occupiable if vacant prior to the retrofit commencing and will be occupied after the retrofit and is not "available" other than to the owner...

there are a number of spaces that have been available for sub-let - and considered vacant as a result - that are no longer availalbe for sub-let as the tenants are now in expansion and not contraction mode... is that space "vacant" or not?

it's not an exact science but that doesn't mean those "specialists" don't know what's going on. it's probably less important that their respective numbers match as it is for their respective numbers to be consistent in how they are individually being calculated and reported (which is where the trend lines that will emerge will have more consistency regardless of the detailed numbers).

[ABF]

Originally Posted by cdnklc

that looks to me more like it's on the macdonald's valet parking lot which is south of the annex's parkade and there's too much distance between this and the south face of the annex (you can see that in the sketch) for it to extend over the annex's parkade (which is not an independent structure but part of the annex's construction).

You could be right on that - the distances do look off; the east wall just looks very much like the east wall of the parkade.

[240glt]

Uhhhhhh..... The two reports are completely different. And both companies have a history of misjudging the market. But I digress

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Uhhhhhh..... The two reports are completely different. And both companies have a history of misjudging the market. But I digress

reporting and forecasting aren't the same... i was only commenting on your initial post's reference to their "not even knowing what the current rate is". their forecasting market performance and the accuracy of those forecasts is a different beast entirely and probably has more to do with business trends and demands - locally, nationally and internationally - than local vacancy numbers. those demands will certainly affect those vacancy numbers as they move through the market but vacancy is residual, not causal, and vacancy rates may affect rental rates but they won't drastically alter a market or maket demand. at which point we may have both digressed somewhat or be talking somewhat at cross purposes rather than actually disagreeing.

[fortroad]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

And another, from Procuras website

This Screams Hyatt to me!

[Coldrsx]

Going to a Leg grounds redevelopment workshop tomorrow night, should be interesting.

[Coldrsx]

Sounds like a 7-11 will occupy the main of the reno'd 104st building on the SEC.