Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by S-Man

All that wasted asphalt and parking space....Taken up by buildings and grass. No more radiant heat column over the Glebe.

A bit more green is good. Although there used to be rather less asphalt when the baseball diamonds were just east of the Aberdeen.

Also while the early Lansdowne Live plans were big on LEED platinum design and green roofs, there seem to be rather less of those in later iterations.

I rather wonder whether it won't be zero-sum as far as radiant heat when all the grease- and fake butter popcorn-scented exhaust from the new commercial bldgs is taken into account.

[S-Man]

Is there such a thing as 'artisan butter'?

[rakerman]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Seems like a number of things are gone. Despite claims to the contrary, that with each passing iteration of the site plan it become more "big boxy."

I predicted it will be just Kanata Centrum with a skim of green around the edges and I stand by that.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by rakerman

I predicted it will be just Kanata Centrum with a skim of green around the edges and I stand by that.

I would say there is more then a skim of green there is a good amount of green space.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

You know, instead of bitching and moaning, maybe people could (like I've done) e-mail your Councillor and demand that they ensure developers keep some of the finer points and proposals of the plan.

Just a thought.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Seems like a number of things are gone. Despite claims to the contrary, that with each passing iteration of the site plan it become more "big boxy."



Comparing the 2010 site plan published by the City (p.24 http://ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne_partnership/site_plan_booklet_en.pdf
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/lansdownenov2010sitepla.jpg/) and the plan shown on Trinity's website, it seems as though more and more of the open spaces that were supposed to be in and around the planned commercial buildings have disappeared.

Whereas Trinity's site shows four large commercial buildings along the north edge of the site (A, B,C,D), the 2010 plan shows five (Bldg A was separated into two parts by a diagonal walkway) offering more open space. Also, Bldg C - the Empire Cinema - previously had an angled east wall that provided a better view corridor of the north face of the Aberdeen Pavilion, whereas now that corner of the cinema has been squared.

Also, when you compare the footprints of the buildings, in the 2010 plan they are much more uneven, with more complicated outlines, and perhaps small alcoves and other details at ground level, whereas in Trinity's 2011 plan most of the buildings have become much boxier (what else can you call it?) with straight walls; each one of which takes back little bits of the promised public areas surrounding the buildings, and moves it inside the stores as rentable square footage.

Similarly, the central plaza that I think Kevin B was referring to, that was to be at the centre of Bldgs G1, G2 and G3, has been deleted, to provide more space for a much larger Bldg G2, with just a little gap between it and Bldg G1.

The developer keeps ratcheting up the rentable square-footage, little by little, while public space is diminished. It seems as though the promised people place, not surprisingly is becoming more and more, just another outdoor shopping centre. Was this the bill of goods we were sold?

Are you suggesting that "the developer" is making unilateral reductions to the public space? Seems unlikely to me.

I haven't looked at the background documents, but could it be that this is not intended to be a detailed site plan?

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by phil235

Are you suggesting that "the developer" is making unilateral reductions to the public space? Seems unlikely to me.

I haven't looked at the background documents, but could it be that this is not intended to be a detailed site plan?

I would expect the same.

[c_speed3108]

Air rights deadline extended a bit:

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Constructi...Offers-sought-for-Lansdowne-air-rights/1

[acottawa]

It is too bad they didn't try try to make it more of a destination like the distillery district that might attract tourists, out-of-towners, etc. While some of these stores are opening their first Ottawa outlet, they're all widely available throughout North America. Ironically, given how much they fought it, the projects seems mostly for the benefit of the Subaru-driving locals.

[Kitchissippi]

I got an email today with this link. These guys are still at it? It kind of pisses me off that i get these emails just because I once responded to something with Clive Doucet's name on the list.

[S-Man]

Two words come to mind: 'delusional' and 'obsession'....

[AuxTown]

When you're going out for dinner downtown on Saturday night and you see that guy yelling and holding a "The End is Near!" sign do you stop and discuss with him? Or do you just walk by and ignore him, recognizing that he is delusional and paranoid? I think the city should do the exact same thing with the conservancy. We really do not have time to entertain their pie-in-the-sky fantasies. A couple more days and we'll be on our way to a new stadium for professional football and soccer, international events (i.e. FIFA), concerts, and local sports!

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It is too bad they didn't try try to make it more of a destination like the distillery district that might attract tourists, out-of-towners, etc. While some of these stores are opening their first Ottawa outlet, they're all widely available throughout North America. Ironically, given how much they fought it, the projects seems mostly for the benefit of the Subaru-driving locals.

Unique destination retail was part of the pitch, but it's not likely to happen. Trinity are a large format retail developer. That's the market they know. Those are the clients in their rolodex. That's the sort or retail development they'll put together.

On another note. Who is the architect for this now? I thought Brisbin and Hobin were collaborating on this, but a poster on the OBJ Air Rights story suggests that it's now Greenberg Farrow.

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Constructi...Offers-sought-for-Lansdowne-air-rights/1

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It is too bad they didn't try try to make it more of a destination like the distillery district that might attract tourists, out-of-towners, etc. While some of these stores are opening their first Ottawa outlet, they're all widely available throughout North America. Ironically, given how much they fought it, the projects seems mostly for the benefit of the Subaru-driving locals.

As a local who actually does drive a Subaru, I'm quite happy that there are tenants that will provide benefit to locals. I always thought that was one of the selling points of the project - it brought in services that we currently need to drive to the suburbs to access.

That said, I do think something like a Crate & Barrel will draw people in from around the region at least. In that way, and particularly given its location on the corner of Holmwood, it should act as a nice achor for the existing retail strip.

I don't think that a Distillery District is doable there, as the existing Victorian building stock was pretty critical to the success of that district in Toronto. To make a little pocket like that work, there has to be something of inherent interest to draw people in, like the old Gooderham complex. I'm not sure that there is anything of that nature at Lansdowne.

I've mentioned beforethat I do think that the vacated NRCan complex on Booth has the potential to be that kind of area. I have no faith in the feds to actually make it happen, but it has the history and architectural heritage (as well as the vacancy) to make it a good candidate. That's where I would like to see the kind of touristy district that you are talking about.

[condo_dreams]

That makes a lot of sense to me (Booth St idea). Close to Dow's Lake, not far from the real city core..

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by umbria27

Unique destination retail was part of the pitch, but it's not likely to happen. Trinity are a large format retail developer. That's the market they know. Those are the clients in their rolodex. That's the sort or retail development they'll put together.

On another note. Who is the architect for this now? I thought Brisbin and Hobin were collaborating on this, but a poster on the OBJ Air Rights story suggests that it's now Greenberg Farrow.

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Constructi...Offers-sought-for-Lansdowne-air-rights/1

See this article
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Lansdowne+date+delayed+years/5244515/story.html

The documents say the delay is also partly OSEG's fault, because the development group decided to change the architect working on the commercial buildings. Greenberg said that OSEG was happy with the highlevel work done by local architects Barry Hobin and Ritchard Brisbin, but decided to bring in "somebody with extra strength in urban retail" - John Clifford of New York City's GreenbergFarrow. ("Absolutely no relation to me," Greenberg said.)

Greenberg Farrow is working with Trinity on the Stockyards project in Toronto. They do a lot of work with Whole Foods
http://www.greenbergfarrow.com/expArchRetV-30WestonRoad.html
http://www.trinity-group.com/index.php?q=node/432

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

jon willing -the ottawa sun

toronto — the city of ottawa is receiving little scratch for its skin in the development game at lansdowne park, a lawyer argued monday at the ontario court of appeal.

Steven shrybman, who represents the friends of lansdowne, likened the city’s circumstances to a tower of cocktail glasses piled at a swanky banquet. The champagne is poured at the top and fills the glasses below.

For the city, “there are no glasses in the tower”, but the ottawa sports and entertainment group has plenty, shrybman argued in front of a three-judge panel.

The city’s lawyer, peter doody, attacked shrybman’s suggestion that the city is getting shafted.

“there is no evidence that the transaction as a whole gives an unfair advantage to the developer,” doody told the judges. He said the city expects to receive 64% of the money paid out in the lansdowne deal.

The friends are appealing a superior court decision which dismissed their appeal to quash the lansdowne development deal with oseg. The cornerstone of their argument is a law that prevents cities from giving financial rewards to the private sector. It’s the first time a canadian appeal court is being asked to interpret the bonusing legislation.

Shrybman pointed to an allegedly lopsided revenue sharing scheme and low lease rates for the stadium as bonuses for oseg.

In defending the partnership, doody pulled out a 1967 appeal case involving former ottawa mayor charlotte whitton, who challenged a city deal exempting the exhibition association of taxes at lansdowne. The judge, doody said, concluded you have to look at the complete deal, not just one aspect.

The judges also challenged the friends on the issue of bonusing, at one point questioning lawyers if the total economic impacts of ottawa hosting a canadian football league franchise have been analyzed.

Chief justice warren winkler told the court they will make a decision “as quick as we can.”

more than a dozen supporters of the friends packed the small courtroom gallery.

“we think we have a very strong case, especially on the bonusing argument,” friends president june creelman said outside osgoode hall.

“we understand that these are some of the best minds in the country, so we’re pretty hopeful and confident.”

creelman said it’s too early to say if the friends would take the case to the supreme court if the ontario court of appeal rules in the city’s favour.

“we’ll take that decision when it comes,” she said.

[email protected]

Clever of Doody to keep that 1967 appeal case in his back pocket for this appeal. I don't think he used it in the original trial.Did not need to.

[S-Man]

As if this BS is still going on...

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

S-Man

As if this BS is still going on...

Could go on a lot longer if FOL has the money to take it to the Supreme Court of Canada---then we would likely see another delay of a year in the project--and lose hosting any of those FIFA tournaments as a result.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

S-Man




Could go on a lot longer if FOL has the money to take it to the Supreme Court of Canada---then we would likely see another delay of a year in the project--and lose hosting any of those FIFA tournaments as a result.

At least they need the leave of the court to appeal to the Supreme Court. The odds are against them getting it.