YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Gordon]

it will be interesting to see how long Transport Canada takes to act on this, seeing that the government wants to develop the Chinese market and Air Canada is porbably interested in his route. Hopefully we will see a quick approval.

[deasine]

Additional interest from China

*New China-to-Vancouver flights to bring visitors and jobs*
*
*Guangdong- China:***Representatives from China's Sichuan Airlines and the Vancouver Airport Authority have signed a letter of intent with the goal of starting a new three flights a week service to Vancouver in 2012, bringing with it a boost in tourism and new jobs, announced Premier Christy Clark.
*
The Premier met with Zhang Huiyu, Vice General Manager for Sichuan Airlines, and Tony Gugliotta, Senior Vice President Marketing and Business Development for Vancouver Airport Authority in Guangzhou, China as part of her Jobs Trade Mission.*The new service would be the company's first foray into North America.
*
"Expanding markets for B.C. products and services, particularly in Asia, is a*key*pillar of Canada Starts Here: The BC Jobs Plan," said Premier Clark. "Sichuan Airlines' plans to start this new service will provide another way for British Columbian and Chinese businesses and individuals to expand trade, and will create jobs, new personal connections and $50 million in additional tourism-related revenue annually between Canada and China."
*
Before flights can begin, Sichuan Airlines must receive approval from Transport Canada.* Just this year China Southern Airlines started flying passengers and cargo from Guangzhou to YVR.**The new Chengdu - Shenyang - YVR service would generate substantial direct economic benefits to British Columbia, including 31,000 additional visitors to BC annually, and $3.5 million to BC's GDP every year.
*
"Sichuan Airlines, along with its partners, looks forward to increasing the existing trade, business and personal ties between China and Canada by specifically helping to move passengers and cargo between Chengdu, Shenyang and Vancouver," said Zhang Huiyu of Sichuan Airlines.
*
In 2009, China granted Canada Approved Destination Status (ADS) following the visit of Prime Minister Harper to China which allowed tourism operators in both countries to market their destinations to the other country. Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan Province, has a population of over 14 million and is a business, trade and technology centre in southwest China.* Shenyang, the capital of Liaoning Province, has a population of nine million and is an industrial hub in northeast China.* Both cities would be new and important markets for B.C.*
*
"Strengthening our infrastructure to get our goods and services to market is a key pillar of* the BC Jobs Plan and a new service*from China would do that, " said Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Blair Lekstrom. "Adding additional air services from China would enrich our air connection to Asia and increase business possibilities."
*
"Under the leadership of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the federal government's investments and partnerships in building the Asia-Pacific Gateway continue to strategically position Canada as the corridor of choice between high-growth Asian markets and North America," said the Honourable Ed Fast, Canada's Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Asia Pacific Gateway who recently returned from a trade mission to China where he promoted Canada's competitive advantages directly to China's political and business leaders.* "We welcome further indications of private sector interest in strengthening Canada's competitive advantages by facilitating the movement of goods, services and people between Canada and China.* Deepening Canada's trading relationship with China creates jobs and prosperity for hardworking British Columbians and all Canadians."
*
"This would be an exciting development for YVR and the province," said Vancouver Airport Authority's Tony Gugliotta. "It demonstrates that B.C. is an attractive destination for Chinese tourists and a favoured partner for new business. It also highlights the importance of Vancouver International Airport as an economic generator for B.C."
*
As part of the BC Jobs Plan, Premier Christy Clark is leading the largest trade mission in the province's history to promote BC as a safe harbour for investment. The Jobs and Trade Mission is focused on strengthening existing relationships between B.C. and Asian markets, opening doors for new relationships and setting the stage for future opportunities in China and India. Delegates from more than 130 companies and organizations are accompanying the Premier as part of the effort to defend and create jobs here at home. Health Minister Mike de Jong will also be accompanying the Premier during her time in India. *
Japan and Hong Kong are also on the jobs and trade mission itinerary. Forests Minister Steve Thomson will travel to Japan and Minister Pat Bell, Jobs, Tourism and Innovation, ends his part of the mission in Hong Kong.
*Quick Facts:*
·*********Chinese visitors spend an average of $1,600 per person when they visit Canada.
·*********Sichuan Airlines operates a fleet of 62 aircraft (including 3 A330-200)*from its main hub in Chengdu.* It has an extensive domestic network and began operating internationally in 2007.* It now operates routes to Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Indonesia, Maldives, Vietnam and the island of Saipan.* This service will be Sichuan's first route to North America.*
·*********The BC Jobs Plan commits the Province to aggressively seek out partnerships with aviation companies to increase flights to the province.
**

(Government of British Columbia 2011)

[Hot Rod]

wonderful news on the Chengdu-YVR potential route. Chengdu and Chongqing is exactly where I go when I go to China, and it will be nice to fly non-stop.

I figured this might happen, as Chengdu's Sichuan Airlines is majorly owned by Guangzhou's China Southern - which recently started service and must be doing well.

[hollywoodnorth]

any idea what aircraft Virgin Atlantic will use to service Vancouver with?

I take it a A340?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

any idea what aircraft Virgin Atlantic will use to service Vancouver with?

I take it a A340?

Yup, it will be a A343.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thank you for the acknowlegment and reinforcement on that point. (A YVR Marketing person gave me those ratings.)

I can only muster an ambiguous response to your question; first, AC could profitably pick up this route, it seems, but will not. Air France is doing well with Seattle and has lost interest in the less business/more tourist YVR market (at least, that's how they perceive it)
Toronto has among the highest landing fees anywhere to help pay for that spanking new airport. They need planes to land and take off from YYZ. This a way of helping pay for the new YYZ.
YUL - Paris is self-sustaining due to the common language and economic link factors and don't seem to funnel off as much western traffic.
Is there a factor here, or it just my imagination?
Anyway, a potential YVR - CDG daily sched is expected to be a market biggie, (say YVR sources) so why is someone not taking it up?
It's overdue, and it doesn't make sense. Paris itself is not only a major destination in itself, but CDG is the most "connected" airport in Europe - an ideal connection point to just about anywhere.

'but 'nobody wan'd it, an' it jist don' make no sense' ...

Anyone else ever wondered the same thing, or is it still only me?

Air Canada flying YVR-CDG doesn't make sense at the moment because there is a dearth of Star Alliance options to connect ex-CDG.

It's the same reason why AC only runs 1x daily YVR-LHR while BA runs 2x daily YVR-LHR during the summer. BA has a lot more connection options for people who are planning to continue into Europe.

FRA is the *A hub for Western Europe and I can't imagine AC adding much more capacity to other European cities ex-YVR.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by incognism

Air Canada flying YVR-CDG doesn't make sense at the moment because there is a dearth of Star Alliance options to connect ex-CDG.

It's the same reason why AC only runs 1x daily YVR-LHR while BA runs 2x daily YVR-LHR during the summer. BA has a lot more connection options for people who are planning to continue into Europe.

FRA is the *A hub for Western Europe and I can't imagine AC adding much more capacity to other European cities ex-YVR.

Paris is honestly a market that I see WestJet fitting nicely into. They already have arrangements with Air France and KLM. To be honest, it would be nice to see WestJet expand beyond its 737 roots into more transatlantic flights. I personally think the 787 would have offered WestJet the opportunity to increase both its market share and international presence, but I think there's a definite conservative feel in WestJet, perhaps due to the previous collapse of Canadian Airlines, I don't know.

I know they model their business after SouthWest, but the US is different with multiple flag carriers. Canada has one and I think there's room for two... especially on a country that relies so heavily on air travel for domestic transport.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Paris is honestly a market that I see WestJet fitting nicely into. They already have arrangements with Air France and KLM. To be honest, it would be nice to see WestJet expand beyond its 737 roots into more transatlantic flights. I personally think the 787 would have offered WestJet the opportunity to increase both its market share and international presence, but I think there's a definite conservative feel in WestJet, perhaps due to the previous collapse of Canadian Airlines, I don't know.

I know they model their business after SouthWest, but the US is different with multiple flag carriers. Canada has one and I think there's room for two... especially on a country that relies so heavily on air travel for domestic transport.

Agreed. Being the only other alternative carrier to the Air Canada Star Alliance founder, WestJet's lack of any alliance allows it to capture business from SkyTeam carriers, OneWorld carriers, and other carriers not already part of an alliance. I, too, would like to see WestJet expand its business, more similar to AirBerlin (more of a "budget" alternative to Lufthansa in Germany), AirAsia and AirAsiaX, or even Alaska Airlines.

Here's a list of current WestJet Partners:

Our code-share partners
American Airlines
Cathay Pacific
KLM

Our interline partners
Air France
Alitalia
British Airways
China Airlines
China Eastern
Delta
Dragonair
EL AL
Emirates
Japan Airlines
Korean Air
QANTAS

As for your idea of flying to CDG from YVR, add in their YYC hub as a stopover (allowing domestic service between YVR-YYC, similar to AC's HKG-YVR-YYZ and SYD-YVR-YYZ routes), and negotiating codeshares with AF, I think it can actually work out.


YVR-YYC-CDG = 5061 Miles

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by deasine

I, too, would like to see WestJet expand its business, more similar to AirBerlin (more of a "budget" alternative to Lufthansa in Germany), AirAsia and AirAsiaX, or even Alaska Airlines.

I've actaully heard very good things about Air Berlin's summer YVR-DUS flight. Price is decent, and apparleny service/comfort is good. Would be ncie to see WJ do that going the other way.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yup, it will be a A343.

interesting and thanks! this will be the only A34X operating to YVR correct?

[Yume-sama]

Lufthansa is currently A343 scheduled, and once in an odd while Cathay Pacific sends one instead of a 772/3 or 744.

Actually Cathay seems fairly inconsistent with what ends up in Vancouver lol

[Bigtime]

I believe Lufthansa goes A346 in the summer to YVR, and switches to the A343 over the winter.

[hollywoodnorth]

thanks guys!

[Gordon]

Cathay's 2:30am departure(jfk yvr hkg) is a 744

Cathay's afternoon dep uses what the schedule says is (Eq) equiivalent plane type)

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Cathay's 2:30am departure(jfk yvr hkg) is a 744

Cathay's afternoon dep uses what the schedule says is (Eq) equiivalent plane type)

I wonder how the service differs based on the plane type~ Assuming they don't have a fleetwide standard set of seats for Business on up.

Today's CX889 JFK/YVR/HKG is a 773, tomorrow's says it will be a 772.

CX839 YVR - HKG direct says it is 744 today.

Confusing! Call me crazy but I like to know what plane I'll be flying on before I book Even down to my type of 737 when flying WestJet. They're different I swear!

[s211]

Originally Posted by deasine

As for your idea of flying to CDG from YVR, add in their YYC hub as a stopover (allowing domestic service between YVR-YYC, similar to AC's HKG-YVR-YYZ and SYD-YVR-YYZ routes), and negotiating codeshares with AF, I think it can actually work out.


YVR-YYC-CDG = 5061 Miles

I don't want to dismiss your idea, but using Calgary as a hub for that flight means that I won't take it. AC's use of Calgary as a hub has hobbled enough other airports already.

If Vancouver can't get a non-stop, then why support Calgary. Tell Calgarians to fly here and connect to Paris.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by s211

I don't want to dismiss your idea, but using Calgary as a hub for that flight means that I won't take it. AC's use of Calgary as a hub has hobbled enough other airports already.

If Vancouver can't get a non-stop, then why support Calgary. Tell Calgarians to fly here and connect to Paris.

Agreed, I don't see the logic in a stopover in Calgary. YVR-YYC has lots of options as it is. Paris should have enough traffic to fill planes from Vancouver, is what I've been hearing here. Nothing against Calgary, I just see a direct flight being more in WestJet's interests as it would differentiate the product from the rest.

[MalcolmTucker]

Air France if they were smart could edge CargoLux out of the Calgary market with a flight like that. The group already serves Calgary with KLM however.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by s211

I don't want to dismiss your idea, but using Calgary as a hub for that flight means that I won't take it. AC's use of Calgary as a hub has hobbled enough other airports already.

If Vancouver can't get a non-stop, then why support Calgary. Tell Calgarians to fly here and connect to Paris.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Agreed, I don't see the logic in a stopover in Calgary. YVR-YYC has lots of options as it is. Paris should have enough traffic to fill planes from Vancouver, is what I've been hearing here. Nothing against Calgary, I just see a direct flight being more in WestJet's interests as it would differentiate the product from the rest.

To be honest, I don't think there really is enough demand to allow for direct a profitable route between YVR and CDG. If there was, I'm sure AC would have continued operating their YVR-YUL-CDG route but they haven't. Note, they axed the route despite the fact that it increases service between YUL and CDG, which is a very popular route (AF operates an A380 on this route to compete with AC).

The stopover in YYC is also because YYC does not have a direct route to CDG, and YYC is WestJet's homebase and hub. YVR is not considered a hub for WestJet, it's a focus city. For obvious reasons, I wish WestJet used YVR as a hub instead of YYC, but that's not the case.

Canadian carriers have the ability to take advantage of stoping over domestically on an international route and because our market and demand isn't as large as the United States, I think it's better to stop over domestically so that it can pick up additional passengers that otherwise could not have had a direct route.

Keep in mind, I believe one only needs to deplane at YYC on the return leg. So for onward passengers to CDG from YVR, passengers remain on the plane.

[SpongeG]

Lufthansa sees more flights to Vancouver in its future

Airline executive says German tourists love B.C., so expanded service makes sense

By BRIAN MORTON, Vancouver Sun November 9, 2011

One of the world’s largest airlines has Vancouver high in its expansion plans, but it’s all a matter of timing.

“We now have daily flights here with 350 seats [per aircraft] and Vancouver is always high on our list for more flights,” Don Bunkenburg, Lufthansa’s director of corporate sales and regions, said in an interview Wednesday. “It’s on the drawing board. We could expand in the summer months.

“There’s a lot of tourism demand from Europe to B.C. We bring in Germans, adding to the local economy. We also offer access to Europe and that’s an advantage for the [Vancouver] business traveller.”

Bunkenburg, who made the comment following an address to the Vancouver Board of Trade, said Lufthansa planned to add additional flights to Vancouver three years ago, but it had to be put on hold when an expansion opportunity arose in China.

In his address, Bunkenburg talked about the importance of airlines forming alliances to provide better service for travellers and better access for airlines.

He said Lufthansa, which moved 91 million passengers in 2010, formed the Star Alliance in 1997 with four other airlines including Air Canada. The alliance now has 27 airlines, and moves 604 million passengers a year to 181 countries.

Benefits include more customer benefits, the pooling of frequent flyer points, and more markets.

Bunkenburg noted that Lufthansa, which started flights to Vancouver in 1983, now connects B.C. to the entire world, with more than 80 per cent of the airline’s Canadian passengers connecting beyond Germany to more than 70 countries in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and South-East Asia.

He said Vancouver’s new Convention Centre is a magnet for conventions and meetings and that Lufthansa’s meetings and incentives program helps bring them to the city.

As well, he said, Lufthansa is the only airline that offers Canadians one-stop service to seven Indian destinations.

...

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Lufthansa+se...+future/5683788/story.html#ixzz1dHbeFhwS