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  #3861  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 6:24 AM
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  #3862  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 8:05 AM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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I wonder if running buses in place of LRT with last trains at 10 pm, and first at 6:30 am with trains left on the tail tracks for the first runs would leave enough time to cut down on shut downs on weekends.

The system would run like that as needed, with late service in place on days where demand is high enough to warrant otherwise (Thursday - Saturday?, Stampede, hockey games & concerts).

Sure it would suck, but it would suck less than full weekends of shuttles.
     
     
  #3863  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
It's strange that it's never been an issue before. If I was going to sing the national anthem.. I wouldn't rely on CT to get there! Too many possible hiccups.
I think it's coming to a head now because of the sheer amount of work being done. I may be wrong, but it seems like just about every weekend this year has seen a major service disruption. As opposed to maybe once a month in years past.

The impression the general public is getting is that the system is starting to break down. Yes, we all know maintenance is required - but it seems like EVERYTHING is needing maintenance right now. And all the while, the breakdowns are becoming ever more frequent.

Of course, no one's ready to step up and FUND what's needed, so we'll just sit and bitch about it for a few years until everything is caught up again.
     
     
  #3864  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 10:18 PM
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I saw this little spur when I was taking the bus through the East Village. (it ends just before the 5th ave flyover, before the LRT crosses the river)



Is this just used to hold spare trains?

If the NCLRT goes up Edmonton trail, could this be a potential connection point into the downtown?

Just curious.
     
     
  #3865  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 11:18 PM
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I worked during the shutdown last weekend. 13 hours Saturday and 15 on Sunday. Had to splice in the new power upgrades in a manhole, wrestling 500 mcm insulated copper cable, getting rid of archaic y-splices and putting them into equalization bars. About 12 splices and 40 terminations in my hole. Had to upgrade the grounding too. Another crew was in another manhole doing the same thing.

Meanwhile the crews above were transferring the line to the new poles (day and night shifts). The catenary must be a specific height and must not deviate too far from centre. Upgrades to the isolators were perform too. On Sunday there was a problem in the 36st tunnel, losing day crew on 7th in the process. Also, some scaffolders thought it would be good idea to erect scaffolding right next to a power feed pole by city hall. That had to be dealt with (we refused to re-energize until there was appropriate clearance).

Switching power, pot testing and protective grounding is a three hour process (on 7th anyway). This must be done before we can even begin work. After the work is complete, all clears are given, protective grounds are removed and switching is performed (another 2 hours). Then we wait for the test train and run tests (another hour).

There is so much involved to upgrade to four-car service. I don't think many realize the scope of work. Also, there is a chronic shortage of PLTs and PSEs* across North America, and very few that have experience with the Siemens catenary system, so the human resources are spread very thin.

I can go on, but I need to take a nap. I'm going back to work at midnight to change some old arms in the 36St tunnel.

*(Electricians are only allowed to work on voltages < 750, PLTs and PSEs unlimited.)
     
     
  #3866  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 11:30 PM
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Thanks for the detailed info Lineman on what's been going on lately!
     
     
  #3867  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Yeah, definitely appreciate knowing why the service was disrupted. I was quite surprised to find that trains were only running to the 8St station DT when I was on my way to the football game.
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  #3868  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2011, 3:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5seconds View Post
I saw this little spur when I was taking the bus through the East Village. (it ends just before the 5th ave flyover, before the LRT crosses the river)

Is this just used to hold spare trains?

If the NCLRT goes up Edmonton trail, could this be a potential connection point into the downtown?

Just curious.
Most of that spur has been removed, with the redesign of the roadways in the area it forced shortening it quite a bit.
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  #3869  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2011, 8:27 PM
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  #3870  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2011, 9:30 PM
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I'm not sure how new this is, but there's a survey regarding the 302 service. Takes about 5 minutes to complete.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Route302

Without knowing the exact impetus for the survey, my guess is that they are trying to determine where priorities lie for making improvements to the service.

-------------

Also, there is a survey regarding the Route 17 - particularly geared toward the riders of its northeastern leg from downtown to Renfrew. The western leg of the route will be changing once West LRT opens.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Route17Survey

I do know the impetus for this one - our community association transportation committee has met with Calgary Transit officials to try to have some changes made to how the route will operate in the Beltline. Since this potentially has implications on the rest of the remaining route (to the northeast), CT wanted to survey riders in this area.

I doubt there's many people here who ride the route 17 from the northeast to and from downtown, but if you do, I encourage you to fill it out. Again, it takes about 5 minutes.
     
     
  #3871  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 3:10 PM
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Check out the latest post in the Transitcamp blog. This one is on the SW BRT:
http://www.civiccamp.org/2011/09/the-cal...on-second-thoughts-on-the-southwest-brt/
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  #3872  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Check out the latest post in the Transitcamp blog. This one is on the SW BRT:
http://www.civiccamp.org/2011/09/the-cal...on-second-thoughts-on-the-southwest-brt/
I have a few points vaguely related to the SW BRT.

First, I'm not sure why Heritage Station has been designated, even historically, as the major transfer station for lines intersecting with the S LRT as opposed to Chinook. I suppose it makes sense, given existing infrastructure, because it would be difficult to service Rockyview Hospital from Chinook for a route like the 20 or to get the 3 to Chinook. That said, if we want to bypass congestion on the causeway then it will require new infrastructure and it could just as easily be built to allow busses to originate from Chinook. Chinook is simply a much greater employment/activity centre than Heritage today and it still has a great deal more potential to become an even bigger one in the future. To me it makes more sense to have intersecting lines hit a Chinook TOD instead of Heritage.

Second, I'd like to again advocate for the SW BRT to be transformed into a 14 St Crosstown route. This would first require that the route use the dam, or a new crossing, to continue north instead of veering west. Dedicated bus lanes would be hard to come by on 14 St north of 38 Ave S but the reduction in route length, and the corresponding number of stations, should keep the speed at an acceptable rate. A 14 St route through the inner city would have, in my estimation, a greater potential for serving the inner city and driving development there as opposed to a Crowchild route which would solely be about getting people from the suburbs to downtown. It would also involve an extension of the route north along 14 St N before possibly following Beddington Trail/Symon's Valley Rd out to new developments there. Just as I feel that the S LRT and 14 St S are far enough apart to justify some form of rapid transit on both, I think that the N LRT and 14 St N can both coexist. This would become an even bigger need if, for whatever reason, the city cannot be convinced to make the N LRT a Centre Street Subway.

As for the infrastructure for the busway along 14 St S, I've put some thought into it and come to the conclusion that concentrating most of the startup capital into the 90 Ave underpass actually makes the most sense for some of the reasons you outlined in the Blog post. By spending the money somewhere along the route we are making a clear statement that the future of 14 St S involves rapid transit in the corridor instead of a massive freeway. At the same time it doesn't restrict future decisions or put us into the position you outlined where we may have to rebuild an expensive piece of infrastructure in the future. Improvements at Heritage might reduce the options for interlining, transfers, or which stations serve as the connectors and furthermore are less important for the SW BRT itself (traffic on Heritage west of 14 St is so light, serving only the park, that it should never really interfere with the buses crossing it). Big improvements at Glenmore would suffer from the same problems as those at Heritage for restricting future decisions and would also likely be prohibitively expensive until we know that the route will have high ridership. Improvements further south, at Southland and especially Anderson, would seem unwise at this time because we may want to change the traffic set up, with interchanges, at some point in the future as well as separating the busway from cross traffic with an under or over pass. Until we have a clearer picture of the final configuration for both the BRT route and 14 St itself I would prefer to do only minimal work at those intersections. So the 90 Ave underpass seems like a good place to start in so far as it dictates to future planners and city councils a rough idea of what we want the corridor to be, a major arterial with rapid transit, without unduly restricting their ability to alter that idea around the edges.

I would also like the say that all major infrastructure for any BRT routes that the city constructs should be built, as a matter of course, with a transition to LRT in mind. Basically just that the lines grading should be roughly acceptable for rail with no unfixable hills, that all bridge and tunnel sections be built of an appropriate height, and that stations be located to have future room for 75 meter platforms at a minimum. It just comes down to your point of building it right the first time so that money isn't wasted tearing it all apart to rebuild later. Now most of the planned BRTs, both the city's and your's, will likely never see the ridership to justify a transition to rail but a few, namely those on 17 Ave SE and 16 Ave N, could easily see LRT level traffic. It just makes sense to ensure today that bridge clearances are high enough by spending a little more than to have to rebuild any of the expensive capital requirements in the future if we change technology twenty years down the line.
     
     
  #3873  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 9:51 PM
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Interesting. 7th ave seems once again fucked up, no trains. I've been at a platform for over 15 mins without a peep on the intercom. People are talking about a gas leak but there's been zero announcement from CT as to what to do and where to go.

Want some public feedback on how improve service, CT? Try fucking telling us when a service disruption is happening, and where the fuck to go. This is embarassing, hundreds of people are milling about witth zero clue what to do.
     
     
  #3874  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
Interesting. 7th ave seems once again fucked up, no trains. I've been at a platform for over 15 mins without a peep on the intercom. People are talking about a gas leak but there's been zero announcement from CT as to what to do and where to go.

Want some public feedback on how improve service, CT? Try fucking telling us when a service disruption is happening, and where the fuck to go. This is embarassing, hundreds of people are milling about witth zero clue what to do.
Gas leak according to Calgary Transit on Twitter. @CalgaryTransit
     
     
  #3875  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 10:13 PM
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In regards to the SW BRT and the 90th underpass. Would it not be better to implement a free-flowing interchange (for all traffic) to the 90th/14th intersection that would allow for the busway to be unintereupted (like the rest of 14th)?

I realise that it would cost more, but since there has been talk about free-flowing 14th street, and the road seems a good candidate for it, would that money not be better spent implementing a solution that helps both cars and BRT?

I guess if the underpass could be retained and integrated into any interchange later, that would work too...

Last edited by 5seconds; Sep 27, 2011 at 10:27 PM.
     
     
  #3876  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bassic Lab View Post
I have a few points vaguely related to the SW BRT.
Excellent points. Much to consider. We are really just trying to begin a dialogue and have people start thinking about these things. Perhaps I will have a more detailed response later, but here are a few points:

- Chinook as transfer: Difficult b/c we need to access Rockyview, meaning buses will have to go south on 14th from Glenmore. Going to Chinook would make this really a round about way of getting there, and Glenmore is our only way to gross the Elbow. Plus, Heritage is a strong e/w route and connects well to Glenmore across Deerfoot. Anything through Chinook does not. I agree Chinook is more of a destination, but as a transfer location it sucks.
- Causeway- This will be the subject of an entire post. It is a critical piece of the puzzle and we really need a separate functional study on it. Shoulder operation is ruled out, but we should look at more creative solutions.
- BRTs-> LRTS- I think one BRT could function as an LRT, which is 17 AVE SE. The others are all Crosstown routes and transfer routes, which I don't see having the ridership to justify rail. But I may be wrong.

EDIT- (one more): Heritage/14th Intersection- what I was referring to in the blog was that buses turning east on Heritage from south on 14th will have to make a left turn through the intersection, but they are located in a separate busway on the far right of 14th. So a bus trying to make this movement will cross the northbound bus lane, 3 lanes of 14th southbound and 3 lanes of 14th going north. They will definitely need a separate signal, if not a grade separated flyover.
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  #3877  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 10:54 PM
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Gas leak according to Calgary Transit on Twitter. @CalgaryTransit
Yeah, after at least 20 minutes of no train movement (and I arrived at a fairly packed station, so it was probably closer to 25-30) they decided to let us know what was going on. Complete chaos, much worse than a normal service disruption. Which is odd, because if the fire department has closed the road you'd think that the very first stopped train could radio it in, and an announcement could have been made within 5 minutes tops.

With an accident or electrical/mechanical issue, you never know how long it might take to clear up. But a complete closure by the FD is guaranteed to last long enough that you'll be running trains from the ends of 7th. Get the plan moving, it's not like you don't deal with this on a regular basis. Seems pretty standard - 7th isn't moving, start running trains from the ends. Why it takes nearly half an hour to communicate this to the public is beyond me.

Ah well, on the bright side it didn't happen when it was -20 outside.
     
     
  #3878  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
Yeah, after at least 20 minutes of no train movement (and I arrived at a fairly packed station, so it was probably closer to 25-30) they decided to let us know what was going on. Complete chaos, much worse than a normal service disruption. Which is odd, because if the fire department has closed the road you'd think that the very first stopped train could radio it in, and an announcement could have been made within 5 minutes tops.

With an accident or electrical/mechanical issue, you never know how long it might take to clear up. But a complete closure by the FD is guaranteed to last long enough that you'll be running trains from the ends of 7th. Get the plan moving, it's not like you don't deal with this on a regular basis. Seems pretty standard - 7th isn't moving, start running trains from the ends. Why it takes nearly half an hour to communicate this to the public is beyond me.

Ah well, on the bright side it didn't happen when it was -20 outside.
Yeah, that was fun... I heard an announcement as soon as I got to a platform, fortunately. Still, I ended up walking down to 8th Street station, as the intercom was suggesting. And as soon as I got there, an announcement came on saying service was resumed, so I had to walk back to another station, at which point I had to wait for 3 packed trains to pass me by before I squeezed onto the fourth.

But, honestly I wasn't too bothered. The train has been so reliable and easy for me, that I can deal with the odd hiccup.
     
     
  #3879  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 12:30 AM
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Yeah, that was fun... I heard an announcement as soon as I got to a platform, fortunately. Still, I ended up walking down to 8th Street station, as the intercom was suggesting. And as soon as I got there, an announcement came on saying service was resumed, so I had to walk back to another station, at which point I had to wait for 3 packed trains to pass me by before I squeezed onto the fourth.

But, honestly I wasn't too bothered. The train has been so reliable and easy for me, that I can deal with the odd hiccup.
word, even with its faults the train is almost consistently awesome...esp. compared to some of the main bus routes

my feeder bus to the LRT was 30 mins late today and i missed a 8am quiz at university...not cool transit. i will be looking into getting a car if this keeps happening.
     
     
  #3880  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2011, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Excellent points. Much to consider. We are really just trying to begin a dialogue and have people start thinking about these things. Perhaps I will have a more detailed response later, but here are a few points:

- Chinook as transfer: Difficult b/c we need to access Rockyview, meaning buses will have to go south on 14th from Glenmore. Going to Chinook would make this really a round about way of getting there, and Glenmore is our only way to gross the Elbow. Plus, Heritage is a strong e/w route and connects well to Glenmore across Deerfoot. Anything through Chinook does not. I agree Chinook is more of a destination, but as a transfer location it sucks.
- Causeway- This will be the subject of an entire post. It is a critical piece of the puzzle and we really need a separate functional study on it. Shoulder operation is ruled out, but we should look at more creative solutions.
- BRTs-> LRTS- I think one BRT could function as an LRT, which is 17 AVE SE. The others are all Crosstown routes and transfer routes, which I don't see having the ridership to justify rail. But I may be wrong.

EDIT- (one more): Heritage/14th Intersection- what I was referring to in the blog was that buses turning east on Heritage from south on 14th will have to make a left turn through the intersection, but they are located in a separate busway on the far right of 14th. So a bus trying to make this movement will cross the northbound bus lane, 3 lanes of 14th southbound and 3 lanes of 14th going north. They will definitely need a separate signal, if not a grade separated flyover.
I can see your point regarding a ROW for an east-west line that transfers at Chinook, especially to the east. I think the solution to the causeway issue could just as easily accommodate either Heritage or Chinook as the next destination east of Foothills for the south crosstown. I feel that the final alignment there, when money becomes available and ridership justifies it, will likely require a new transit only bridge crossing the reservoir and additional bridge structures at the 14 St-Glenmore interchange. As for east of Chinook, I'm not sure what kind of solution to advocate for. I've put some thought into it but haven't come up with anything concrete yet. I do firmly believe that we should make all possible attempts to ensure that where ever two lines meet, they do so at a major activity node.

On 14 St and Heritage, yeah I knew what you meant. I think it really comes down to our difference of opinion over which S LRT station should be the major transfer point. For the time being, waiting for the existing signal to cross 14 St should be fine, crossing the north bound lane of the busway shouldn't be an issue as I doubt it would be packed with buses at any point in the near future.

On BRT to LRT transitions, I think I see a few more routes being viable for LRTs than you do. The 16 Ave route, for instance, already has a fair number of destinations: Foothills Hospital, McMahon Stadium, and SAIT among them. I don't think that is necessarily enough to justify LRT on its own but that is where the future of the Centre Street-16 Ave area comes into play. I think the area between 12 Ave N on the south, Edmonton Trail on the east, 20 Ave N on the north, and 4 St N on the west, has a great deal of potential as a major activity node supported by a Centre Street Subway and a 16 Ave BRT/future LRT. That said, I really think the issue just comes down to proper prudence. How much more expensive is an underpass with sufficient height for LRTs as compared to one that works only for buses? I doubt we'd break the bank using LRTs size as a design standard while we could easily break the bank replacing previously built structures because they're six inches too low.
     
     
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