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  #3841  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2011, 5:51 PM
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Here's how to reduce at least some service disruption, and the city already understands this in a roads context:

When accidents happen, don't take 4 hours investigating while the train just sits there. Move the wreckage (mechanical or human), get service restored - and THEN do your homework.

This is what's starting to happen on Deerfoot (tow trucks on standby) and it makes a huge difference. Do you think Tokyo or Manhattan could function if they shut down their major subway lines for several hours every time someone is hit by a train?
     
     
  #3842  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2011, 11:57 PM
Robert in Calgary Robert in Calgary is offline
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Originally Posted by outoftheice View Post
One has to simply look at a map of Calgary's planned LRT network to see a huge gap in between the proposed NC LRT and the NW LRT. I seem to remember media reports that eventually 250 000 people will move in to this area... meaning it will have a larger catchment area than any of the current LRT lines has. There have been talks about rapid transit lines (dedicated BRT, street car or LRT) to service Calgary's east side and to service the area of the City SW of the reserve, so why does it seem like an area that is essentially the size of Red Deer has been ignored by City planners???
We should be planning for a route up 14th Street. Six legs of LRT out of the City Centre plainly is not enough. Not if the plan is to increase density and transit use.

Something like this...

http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/fullscreen/51378302/
     
     
  #3843  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert in Calgary View Post
We should be planning for a route up 14th Street. Six legs of LRT out of the City Centre plainly is not enough. Not if the plan is to increase density and transit use.

Something like this...

http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/fullscreen/51378302/
Looking at that, it's too close to the NCLRT to be useful as an LRT line, but you could run that as on-street BRT, and it would probably be useful to take pressure off of Centre St and the 301/3 *until* NCLRT is built. Especially if they develop the Sage Hill area in the next few years. You would probably not want to run it along 16th, though.
     
     
  #3844  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 1:21 AM
para transit fellow para transit fellow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
Here's how to reduce at least some service disruption, and the city already understands this in a roads context:

When accidents happen, don't take 4 hours investigating while the train just sits there. Move the wreckage (mechanical or human), get service restored - and THEN do your homework.

This is what's starting to happen on Deerfoot (tow trucks on standby) and it makes a huge difference. Do you think Tokyo or Manhattan could function if they shut down their major subway lines for several hours every time someone is hit by a train?
but anytime there is a fatality on deerfoot, the cops close all the lanes. (that cable in the median has really helped reduce the deerfoot closures)
     
     
  #3845  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 1:27 AM
Robert in Calgary Robert in Calgary is offline
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Originally Posted by DarkKeyo View Post
Looking at that, it's too close to the NCLRT to be useful as an LRT line,.....(snip)
You would probably not want to run it along 16th, though.
I disagree that's it's too close to Centre Street.

And it's not as if we're brimming with other options in the area.

If both routes serve an useful purpose and have the ridership, the supposed closeness is irrelevant.

(just like I believe 14th Street south isn't too close to the existing south line. there's plenty of ridership to support both)


As to 16th Avenue, it's one option. It could shoot west to to the "West Village" area then swing north.

Last edited by Robert in Calgary; Sep 21, 2011 at 1:35 AM. Reason: to add and clraify....
     
     
  #3846  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 1:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert in Calgary View Post
I disagree that's it's too close to Centre Street.

And it's not as if we're brimming with other options in the area.
What about using the CPR ROW out towards the west then either crossing the Bow at 29th and going underground to Foothills hospital or just go to Shaganappi and stay above ground. After that follow Shaganappi all the way to the NW. I have no idea what it would take for CPR to agree to it.
     
     
  #3847  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 2:56 AM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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On the main line? They will never give up expansion room in their ROW. For commuter trains to Cochrane I believe they said they wanted triple tracking, with the ability to use all three tracks for freight, with the city/province/region only having rights to a certain amount of train capacity.
     
     
  #3848  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Paging the following:

-srperry

That is all. You know what you must do.
If I had a normal job, with normal hours, I might. But I don't. I think I annoyed Wooster anyway with my criticism.
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  #3849  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 4:09 AM
Koolfire Koolfire is offline
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
On the main line? They will never give up expansion room in their ROW. For commuter trains to Cochrane I believe they said they wanted triple tracking, with the ability to use all three tracks for freight, with the city/province/region only having rights to a certain amount of train capacity.
Yes but commuter rail is quite different. There would be no sharing of line between freight and LRT and it would be 3-4 KM vs 30-40KM. Worst case you could elevate it on the river one long bridge. Similar to the WLRT bridge but over the Bow River.
     
     
  #3850  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 4:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Paging the following:

-srperry
-Beltliner
-Frinkprof

That is all. You know what you must do.
Well Steve said in the Herald today it was all just PR, so perhaps he's not interested.
     
     
  #3851  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 2:31 PM
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Yep, I said that to Jason M. It feels like a PR exercise to calm down the enraged masses. I'd like to be wrong.
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Last edited by srperrycgy; Sep 22, 2011 at 3:09 AM. Reason: My spelling sucks.
     
     
  #3852  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 6:49 PM
Robert in Calgary Robert in Calgary is offline
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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Well Steve said in the Herald today it was all just PR, so perhaps he's not interested.
The transit website bills it as purely customer service oriented.

That makes it much less appealing.

"Please note: the scope of the advisory group is to look at broad issues related to customer service. It will not focus on issues related to scheduling, operations, service supply or route planning."
     
     
  #3853  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2011, 9:53 PM
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I'd have to agree with Steve and Rob. The advisory group dodges the important issues, so it's all just PR to me.
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  #3854  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 12:11 AM
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Did anyone catch the globaltv segment on the stampeder's saying service shut down on the weekend cost them money? Global has a web poll asking what Calgary Transit should do, no surprise the majority of people believe its a management issue.

I wonder how many in that poll believe the LRT does not need to be maintained, and these closures are just for shits and giggles?
     
     
  #3855  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LFRENCH View Post
Did anyone catch the globaltv segment on the stampeder's saying service shut down on the weekend cost them money? Global has a web poll asking what Calgary Transit should do, no surprise the majority of people believe its a management issue.

I wonder how many in that poll believe the LRT does not need to be maintained, and these closures are just for shits and giggles?
Why not do it in the very early hours of the monring when the line isn't in use anyway?
     
     
  #3856  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
Why not do it in the very early hours of the monring when the line isn't in use anyway?
Well there probably many reasons why this is not feasible, but the other problem would be if you ran into a problem. There has to be enough time factored into the construction process for unforseen challenges. After all it is easier to cope with a planned closure than a unplanned one.

I think this response is more just a knee jerk reaction. If some people choose to ignore the warnings, then tough luck and move on. However it just seemed like needless beating up on Calgary Transit and its management.
     
     
  #3857  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LFRENCH View Post
Well there probably many reasons why this is not feasible, but the other problem would be if you ran into a problem. There has to be enough time factored into the construction process for unforseen challenges. After all it is easier to cope with a planned closure than a unplanned one.

I think this response is more just a knee jerk reaction. If some people choose to ignore the warnings, then tough luck and move on. However it just seemed like needless beating up on Calgary Transit and its management.
It's strange that it's never been an issue before. If I was going to sing the national anthem.. I wouldn't rely on CT to get there! Too many possible hiccups.
     
     
  #3858  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 2:31 AM
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Let me explain the genesis of all this to you guys.

The Advisory Group was an election promise of the Mayor - it was very specifically highlighted in his platform. Further to that, it's creation has been in the works for several months - not in response to the recent service disruptions. The terms of reference (which I wrote in consultation with transit) was completed a week or so ago, so it seemed an opportune time to launch while we were talking about transit anyway. Similarly, publishing of performance measures was also an explicit promise of the mayor over a year ago in the election - and something the Mayor has been discussing with transit. Fortunately, the new GPS will provide a bevy of data that will make measuring things like on-time performance a lot more meaningful.

Yes this advisory group is focused on customer experience issues like communication with customers when delays happen, safety, customer-service protocols, user-friendliness of the website, fare payment methodes and trip-planning etc. These issues ARE very important to improving transit beyond it's basic operational issues.

That does NOT mean that issues of network planning, or scheduling or other operational issues are being ignored. There are other more effective means than a committee to communicate with customers and gather meaningful input about those things.

For instance there will be the development of a 30 year capital plan for Calgary Transit - as approved through Council's Fiscal Plan for Calgary. Input into that plan, in my opinion, is probably not best served by a committee. Similarly, the NCLRT alignment consultations were quite effective through the open house formats they used (and very heavily attended).

Things like scheduling issues of various lines across the city is way beyond the capacity of a 12-15 person committee. Say for instance they needed feedback on the #3 route because it's perpetually late or feedback on the alignment of the 72/73 - what if nobody on that committee rides those routes, what use would they be?

The Advisory Group is intentionally designed to be focused and responsive to customer experience issues - it's not designed to solve all of transit's problems. If that's what people thought, perhaps that was not communicated effectively enough.

I suppose cynicism is an understandable response, but PR is not the driving force behind these initiatives. sorry.

Last edited by Wooster; Sep 22, 2011 at 2:42 AM.
     
     
  #3859  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
Why not do it in the very early hours of the monring when the line isn't in use anyway?
The longest the line is shut down (service-wise anyway) is between end of service Sunday evening and start of service on Monday, which is less than three hours. Of course there's all the out-of-service trains that are running either coming back from the very last train of the night, or shuttling to the first station to start the next day. With that being the case, you're looking at a very small window of time, maybe a couple hours. Not much time to set up and get any appreciable work done, especially in the dark.

Any work that is being done during a weekend closure is stuff that needs continuous work done on it for at least a few hours at a time to get anything accomplished.

Also - some smaller maintenance work is already done without needing a closure. Like a lot of construction projects, they try to use closures sparingly and get as much done during that closure as possible.

Last edited by frinkprof; Sep 22, 2011 at 3:01 AM.
     
     
  #3860  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2011, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Let me explain the genesis of all this to you guys.

The Advisory Group was an election promise of the Mayor - it was very specifically highlighted in his platform. Further to that, it's creation has been in the works for several months - not in response to the recent service disruptions. The terms of reference (which I wrote in consultation with transit) was completed a week or so ago, so it seemed an opportune time to launch while we were talking about transit anyway. Similarly, publishing of performance measures was also an explicit promise of the mayor over a year ago in the election - and something the Mayor has been discussing with transit. Fortunately, the new GPS will provide a bevy of data that will make measuring things like on-time performance a lot more meaningful.

Yes this advisory group is focused on customer experience issues like communication with customers when delays happen, safety, customer-service protocols, user-friendliness of the website, fare payment methodes and trip-planning etc. These issues ARE very important to improving transit beyond it's basic operational issues.

That does NOT mean that issues of network planning, or scheduling or other operational issues are being ignored. There are other more effective means than a committee to communicate with customers and gather meaningful input about those things.

For instance there will be the development of a 30 year capital plan for Calgary Transit - as approved through Council's Fiscal Plan for Calgary. Input into that plan, in my opinion, is probably not best served by a committee. Similarly, the NCLRT alignment consultations were quite effective through the open house formats they used (and very heavily attended).

Things like scheduling issues of various lines across the city is way beyond the capacity of a 12-15 person committee. Say for instance they needed feedback on the #3 route because it's perpetually late or feedback on the alignment of the 72/73 - what if nobody on that committee rides those routes, what use would they be?

The Advisory Group is intentionally designed to be focused and responsive to customer experience issues - it's not designed to solve all of transit's problems. If that's what people thought, perhaps that was not communicated effectively enough.

I suppose cynicism is an understandable response, but PR is not the driving force behind these initiatives. sorry.
Well I'm glad you wrote all that, because this was the next item I was going to address.

Guys - this advisory group idea was spearheaded by the mayor's office, not CT during an emergency meeting on "what to do about the Killer Train and third-world electrical system perception."

In addition to the points made by Wooster about the customer service scope of the initiative, there's a reason why there is a list of topics that are officially off the table. It's all well and good if things like scheduling, routing, etc. are discussed during this process, but when recruiting people for this thing, you can't send the message that they should bring all their gripes about why the bus doesn't run on their street at the exact time they want to leave and get home, why they don't get the bus with the seats they prefer, etc. and that transit will make those changes just because they are in the group. That's an extreme, but you have to limit the scope to the customer experience, otherwise the group's objectives and results won't be focused and every meeting will be people arguing over lines on a map, etc. Of course scheduling, bus fleet, etc. are very much linked to the customer experience, and will naturally come up in these meetings, and transit/the mayor's office will likely listen and think about it. You just can't give the impression that this group is being made to tear down Calgary Transit's operations and rebuild them from scratch and everything will be done that way. Not sure if I put all that into words very well, but hopefully it makes sense.
     
     
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