Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

On a somewhat related topic, the Metro Centre had revenue of $7,165,956 for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2010. It was down from $8,530,335 for the previous year ending on March 31, 2009 (source: http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-t...20Halifax%20Metro%20Centre%202009-10.pdf). The reason for the decrease was because the IIHF World Hockey Championship was held in 2008 (the year ending on March 31, 2009).

The WTCC I convention centre had direct revenue of $6.883 million for the year ending March 31, 2011 (source: "Convention Bump Whittles TCL Shortfall, Brian Flinn", August 9th edition, allovascotia.com).

I think those are impressive revenue numbers for the two venues mentioned. One difficulty with deciding on a design for a stadium is uncertainty in estimating yearly revenue. Personally, I think it will be quite successful, but it doesn't have the revenue history of the Metro Centre or WTCC to mitigate any financial risk.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I would rather get our rec centre system up to par first, before a stadium. I have been clear regarding this, repeating it whenever appropriate.

I think it is irresponsible to build another large facility when not dealing with the updates, renovations and deferred maintenance and Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex.

That said, if we are building one, I am going to be involved in that discussion, too.

Why would HRM ever sanction the BMO 4-plex, the all weather fields, the Canada Games Field House and the Oval when updates, renovations and deferred maintenance on the Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex are so desperately needed?

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Empire

Why would HRM ever sanction the BMO 4-plex, the all weather fields, the Canada Games Field House and the Oval when updates, renovations and deferred maintenance on the Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex are so desperately needed?

Because it was politically expedient. The system we have has all the community centres set up as their own board and not for profit societies, and they are all operating carrying large debts, unable to renovate or expand, but it keeps it from being directly an HRM issue, even though they are the multi-centres for their communities. I find it frustrating. I suspect that BMO P3 deal is a bad deal, and I worry the CWG Centre will end up unmaintained and falling appart in 10-15 years unless HRM policies change. Same with the all weather field, we built that, but we've been talking about fixing Beazley and especially its track for, what, 15 years?

[Empire]

I would like to make a suggestion to Premier Dexter. Please reallocate the funds earmarked for the highway 103 to Ingramport connector to the HRM stadium fund. The people of Ingramport and surrounding area clearly don't want this connector and certainly no one in HRM city centre wants it. You would get far more bang for the buck in terms of votes by investing the $12+ million in the regional stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I would rather get our rec centre system up to par first, before a stadium. I have been clear regarding this, repeating it whenever appropriate.

I think it is irresponsible to build another large facility when not dealing with the updates, renovations and deferred maintenance and Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex.

That said, if we are building one, I am going to be involved in that discussion, too.

I get the feeling that you are planning to run for a political position in the future. Some or your posts sound like campaign speeches. However, in the case of the stadium, I believe you are on the wrong side of the fence. Although Bruce DeVenne got his way regarding the Commonwealth Games bid, it didn't translate into election success as a Councillor.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I get the feeling that you are planning to run for a political position in the future. Some or your posts sound like campaign speeches. However, in the case of the stadium, I believe you are on the wrong side of the fence. Although Bruce DeVenne got his way regarding the Commonwealth Games bid, it didn't translate into election success as a Councillor.

Well, if I do run for something you can count on me speaking about what I think, and why, not telling folks what I think they want to hear.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Well, if I do run for something you can count on me speaking about what I think, and why, not telling folks what I think they want to hear.

There is nothing wrong with anyone getting into politics or expressing an opinion. But that will never change that council will always have the power to make the decision on a stadium or any spending.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

I am still in favor of a 25k - 30k permanent seat stadium that could be expanded to 50k for large events. It's just going to be difficult but not impossible to make it happen. All parties are going to have to get together and figure out how to make it work.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Looks like the people in charge in Regina as well as the private sector seem able to try and make things happen.

http://cfl.ca/article/new-stadium-in-plans-for-downtown-regina

[Empire]

From Friday's Herald.

HRM looks for stadium land

City posts call for interest from property owners
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Fri, Aug 26 - 12:00 PM

Halifax city hall is seeking expressions of interest from property owners with land potentially suitable for the municipality’s proposed multi-use stadium.

The public call, posted this week on Halifax Regional Municipality’s website, is hooked to the second phase of a project feasibility study.

The municipality’s notice says it is only interested in testing the waters, not entering into any formal real estate negotiations.

Regional council hasn’t approved the building of a stadium. Council has authorized a study that, so far, has cost taxpayers $375,000. Earlier this month, councillors voted 15-6 for the second phase of the study, research that is to include a cost estimate and candidate sites. The municipality’s call for expressions of interest gives property owners until 2 p.m. on Sept. 15 to respond. The municipality is considering building a stadium with 20,000 permanent and temporary seats that would host sports competitions and other events. Mayor Peter Kelly and other venue supporters say such a development would be an asset for the Halifax region.

Coun. Steve Adams (Spryfield-Herring Cove) acknowledged Thursday the expression-of-interest call may be a necessary part of the next phase of study, but he said there is nothing set in stone.

"This is simply fact-finding. There’s nothing guaranteed with any type of (potential) transaction."

At a minimum, a landowner should have an eight-hectare piece of property for sale, the municipal notice said. It should be close to the province’s 100-series highways.

"Should the municipality elect to proceed with further investigation and/or development of a stadium on privately held lands, it may enter direct negotiations with any or all of the respondents at any time . . . for the purpose of attempting to finalize an acceptable agreement," the notice said.

If councillors vote for a stadium and decide to deal with a private landowner, they would discuss those negotiations in secret. All land transactions are routinely handled behind closed doors.

Shannon Park in Dartmouth, owned by Ottawa, has been mentioned as a candidate location. The former military housing district has a waterfront locale and is close to one of Halifax’s two harbour bridges.

Whether the Harper government has any interest in selling the property is unknown. If it does, no one knows whether the government’s asking price will be within the budget of city hall and other stadium planners.

Adams, who voted against Phase 2 of the study, said he objected because there are too many unanswered questions.

"And I know a number of councillors expressed concern about not having the other funding partners in place. There were no private, no other levels of government — nothing else."

Halifax is in the running to host soccer games during the 2015 Women’s World Cup and a companion event a year earlier. FIFA, the sport’s world governing body, has awarded the tournaments to Canada and several cities are interested in hosting matches.

[reddog794]

I was thinking about this on the drive yesterday. My personal favourite site would be Wanders Grounds. Regina recently approved a new stadium downtown which gives me a faint glimmer of hope, but the main hurdle (no pun intended) is the Bengel Lancers.

The most ideal spot for them would be Point Pleasent Park. I imagine they could even make some side earnings, by horse rides through the park.

An idea to a difficult decision. There will still be those who raise the parking issue, which is warrented. IMO I think a stadium, with that close of proximity DT, parking isn't an issue. The Metro Centre is a good example of why it isn't an issue. Yes SS is next door, and that's why a DT stadium would work. There is TONS of parking DT, and around it. Not including the fact Metro Transit, more than likely set up special buses.

Any thoughts?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by reddog794

I was thinking about this on the drive yesterday. My personal favourite site would be Wanders Grounds. Regina recently approved a new stadium downtown which gives me a faint glimmer of hope, but the main hurdle (no pun intended) is the Bengel Lancers.

The most ideal spot for them would be Point Pleasent Park. I imagine they could even make some side earnings, by horse rides through the park.

An idea to a difficult decision. There will still be those who raise the parking issue, which is warrented. IMO I think a stadium, with that close of proximity DT, parking isn't an issue. The Metro Centre is a good example of why it isn't an issue. Yes SS is next door, and that's why a DT stadium would work. There is TONS of parking DT, and around it. Not including the fact Metro Transit, more than likely set up special buses.

Any thoughts?

I like the idea also, although I know that many will be strongly against that location. I think that Saint Mary's University might use such a facility for many of their games (due to its close proximity to their campus).

I have pretty much given up on a Halifax peninsula location since so many people seem to be against it. The HRM, according to the local news media, is looking for a location which is close to a 100-series highway.



PS: This is on a different topic, but in order to save an additional post I will post it here.

I found this image below on the internet. Although it is an impressive view under the Ivor Wynne Stadium in Hamilton, it shows why a split stadium with a sunken bowl and raised upper tier is advantageous. A two tier stadium could be built with washrooms and concessions at mid-level close to both upper and lower seats. PS: On the other hand, one of the advantages to such a wide open concourse area is that it provides lots of room for simple concession stands as shown in the image. I am very impressed by this image of Ivor Wynne Stadium (however, it was recently decided that the entire stadium will be completely rebuilt, so this is one of the sections that will be torn down soon).

(source: http://rodpedersen.blogspot.com/2008/07/our-southern-ontario-road-trip.html )

[beyeas]

Interesting... she usually is one of the NIMBYs from what I vaguely remember (although I can't say I typically read her columns!). Admittedly she is only mildly positive, but it is certainly not a bad thing that someone who would usually fall into the "developers are evil capitalists" is coming out as mildly positive towards the stadium concept.

I’m leaning towards stadium but let’s wait to see the report

By ANGELA MOMBOURQUETTE | DON’T GET ME STARTED
Mon, Aug 22 - 4:55 AM

I FEEL kind of obliged to weigh in on the whole stadium thing, even though — and I’ll be totally honest here — I’m neither 100 per cent for, nor 100 per cent against, the idea. And why should I have a fully formed opinion? Like every other person in this municipality, mayor Peter Kelly and HRM councillors included, I don’t have all the information.

But the mayor and some councillors appear to have made up their minds already, in the way that many Halifax regional councillors tend to do, based on the old “What’s in it for me (and my future election prospects)?” argument.

[halifaxboyns]

I'm a little worried about this public RFP they are doing for the stadium. Near the '100 series highways' would exclude Shannon Park - the circumfrential highway isn't a 100 series highway, that I'm aware of.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I'm a little worried about this public RFP they are doing for the stadium. Near the '100 series highways' would exclude Shannon Park - the circumfrential highway isn't a 100 series highway, that I'm aware of.

The Circ is actually 100-series - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Scotia_Highway_111

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by planarchy

The Circ is actually 100-series - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Scotia_Highway_111

I wasn't sure - that's perfect. I was worried that they may have excluded the site, either in error or on purpose.

This would essentially remove any possible site on the Peninsula though. It may also remove the exhibition grounds, although one could argue that it's in relative proximity to the 103. But this would also likely allow the inclusion of Dartmouth Crossing or Burnside since DC is right on the 118 and Burnside is right next door to DC.

I also meant to comment on Fenwick's picture from Hamilton. I think that design is intereting because it leaves the area under the stands quite open for things like food vendors. From the height and elevation of the photo, you might even be able to have a food truck pull in there (depending on the design and clearance). So if the food truck craze (that seems to be hitting major cities all over) expands in Halifax beyond the two that I remember around the library (budd the spud and that other one which I can't remember the name) - they could drive up for an event, park, serve food and leave with out major problems.

[TedWilliamsHead]

http://http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=374767

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats will be getting an entirely new stadium, rather than a revamped Ivor Wynne Stadium, according to a report in the Hamilton Spectator.

The original plan was to renovate the north stands of Ivor Wynne, but after the city learned that the stands couldn't accommodate seats with backs, the plan was changed.

The Ticats have known about the problems with renovating Ivor Wynne, and the recommendation to demolish the stadium was what the team was hoping for, so that they can build a new stadium that is up to modern standards in every way, according to TSN's Dave Naylor. It is expected that the new stadium can still be built on budget.

The question that arises with these new developments is where will the Ticats play in the 2013 season? Construction is planned to begin immediately after the 2012 season and possible home destinations for the Cats in 2013 include McMaster University; London, Ontario; more games at the Rogers Centre in Toronto; Moncton, New Brunswick; or Quebec City. The team could also play some of their home games as the opposing team's stadium.

The Tiger-Cats have not commented on the issue so far.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I wasn't sure - that's perfect. I was worried that they may have excluded the site, either in error or on purpose.

This would essentially remove any possible site on the Peninsula though.

The MacKay bridge is part of the 111, and I believe the overpasses leading to it are too, so the Bayne Street lands, the Kempt Road area all meet that criteria. So you could do one barely on the peninsula, in the farthest north end.

You could put it on the landfill site next to Ceres Port. At the rate we are losing container lines we won't need that land for expansion. :/

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The MacKay bridge is part of the 111, and I believe the overpasses leading to it are too, so the Bayne Street lands, the Kempt Road area all meet that criteria. So you could do one barely on the peninsula, in the farthest north end.

You could put it on the landfill site next to Ceres Port. At the rate we are losing container lines we won't need that land for expansion. :/

Good point, I had mention this site in the early stages. It is on the water but somewhat protected from the south winds that blow in from the harbour mouth.

[halifaxboyns]

I wouldn't be so quick to give up that land. Container traffic changes with the tides (so to speak), but considering that the world is still having major economic troubles - container traffic is slow to pick up good times and quick to pick up the bad.

Something tells me in the next year or two, it will slowly move back up and I'd hate to give up the land for a stadium when it might be more important for the port. That being said, it might be a good location to consider.