The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread - Page 313

nwalbert · #**6241** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 5:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

Pugsley C being torn down = great
New waterfront construction = great
Lack of residential and commercial uses on site = awful
Inevitable restrictions on the public from accessing the waterfront = very bad
More parking on the waterfront = atrocious

The design of the site isn't bad, but this is an area of prime real estate in a growing part of town, why do we keep letting the port get away with this stuff? Yes build the terminal, but at least put some of the adjacent land up for tender or proposals, or maybe build some retail spaces into the terminal building itself. Even if you're only looking at things from a tourist's perspective (which the port only does), then wouldn't it be more attractive to get off a ship and enter into a bustling, lively urban area rather than a big passenger terminal with a few trinket stalls?

From the article it appears that the location will be available for rental. If done correctly this could turn into a top notch location for weddings, gala's, etc.. that would bring more folks to the uptown area and be a significant positive. I find it very hard to look at this development in any negative light. The Coast Guard site combined with the Boardwalk should provide plenty of waterfront access for the general public, not to mention the Harbour Passage.

nwalbert · #**6242** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Remember when the Horse-racing track and casino were proposed for the Lantic Site? LOL.

I was actually thinking about that yesterday and as I drove past the Casino on my way to Halifax. It is really hard not to think that Casino turned into a major missed opportunity for the province. The Halifax Casino is a destination and draws people to the heart of the city, which is what a casino on the SJ waterfront or downtown Moncton would have achieved.

Instead we have a mostly cheesy roadside attraction surrounded by no other evening entertainment. Truly disappointing.

cdnguys · #**6243** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 7:23 PM**

The loss of the General Hospital on the city's skyline was tragic. However the new courthouse redeems that mistake somewhat as it also sits up on a hill and looks prominent as you enter the city centre from the west - so for that I am very pleased. I find the design of the building with the large number of corners, levels and windows roughly mirrors the rough willy nilly skyline of Saint John in the Garden Street / Hazen Street area. Not sure if that's what the architect was aiming for ...

Looking forward to the stone, brick and glass going on it - definitely one of the nicest, if not the nicest justice complex in Canada.

JHikka · #**6244** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 7:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I was actually thinking about that yesterday and as I drove past the Casino on my way to Halifax. It is really hard not to think that Casino turned into a major missed opportunity for the province. The Halifax Casino is a destination and draws people to the heart of the city, which is what a casino on the SJ waterfront or downtown Moncton would have achieved.

I have two problems with a casino in Saint John, primarily waterfront:

1)Tourists: If tourists already have a casino on the cruise ship, why would they visit the Saint John Casino? It seems counter-productive that SJ would attempt to offer something (mainly) to tourists in which they already have on the boat. I'm not the expert on tourist activity, but that's the first thing that springs to my mind.

2)South End: Where poverty and crime is strife, placing a casino near or around doesn't seem like a solid idea. Kind of like putting a Casino in Dartmouth or Cole Harbour instead of Halifax Peninsula. There's easily more poverty and low-income in Saint John than in Fredericton or Moncton, and I feel as though most people are in these positions because of poor money management. It's sort of like taking the poorest place and placing a money-sucker right in the middle. Pain on top of pain. It'd be like one giant building of VLTs.

nwalbert · #**6245** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 10:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregHickman

I have two problems with a casino in Saint John, primarily waterfront:

1)Tourists: If tourists already have a casino on the cruise ship, why would they visit the Saint John Casino? It seems counter-productive that SJ would attempt to offer something (mainly) to tourists in which they already have on the boat. I'm not the expert on tourist activity, but that's the first thing that springs to my mind.

Well, I think people other than cruise ship visitors are in the uptown area. The casino is just another draw to keep people in any downtown. Dinner, casino, then dancing, etc..

Most well done casino's are entertainment centers that offer things beyond gambling. The casino could have had a comedy show/seafood lunch available on all days that the ships were in town that I am sure would do well. Not to mention casino's are typically impressive buildings that are interesting to visit, again whether one wants to gamble or not.

I can see where your coming from on your second point but I would argue that wherever you put a casino, certain folks are going to have problems. Most of those folks will probably find another way to part with their financial resources if there were no casino.

Waterfront or not, in my eyes it is a major missed opportunity and I think the disappointing financial results thus far are a direct result of that.

JHikka · #**6246** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Most well done casino's are entertainment centers that offer things beyond gambling. The casino could have had a comedy show/seafood lunch available on all days that the ships were in town that I am sure would do well. Not to mention casino's are typically impressive buildings that are interesting to visit, again whether one wants to gamble or not.

I forgot about the entertainment aspect in regards to shows. Well made point on that account.

Again, though, i'm not sold on the idea. I'm not against casinos (frankly, i've been to the Moncton casino and absolutely loved it), but I don't think it would work in Saint John. You don't want to saturate the casino market in the maritimes.

If we want to keep people in the Uptown after 5pm we could always start by lowering property taxes...

MonctonRad · #**6247** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 11:30 PM**

One of the major arguments in favour of putting the casino out at Magnetic Hill rather than in downtown Moncton is that it made it more difficult for "casual" gambling. There was some fear that downtown office workers would wander over to the casino during their lunch brake and squander all their hard earned cash. Putting the casino out in the boonies made it just a little inconvenient to get to.....

Personally, I think it should have gone in the core. The combination of a casino complex and a new arena/event centre in the downtown would have done wonders for the core......

An opportunity lost as far as I'm concerned.

BTW, the casino has been surprisingly successful so far and there are a lot of acts going through the facility.

JHikka · #**6248** Posted **Aug 27, 2011, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

One of the major arguments in favour of putting the casino out at Magnetic Hill rather than in downtown Moncton is that it made it more difficult for "casual" gambling. There was some fear that downtown office workers would wander over to the casino during their lunch brake and squander all their hard earned cash. Putting the casino out in the boonies made it just a little inconvenient to get to.....

Right, and in Saint John it's more likely that those casual gamblers would be people who have no room to afford such a luxury. And we all know what happens when people have zero money. How many other cities in the Maritimes require security guards at banks or grocery stores? Because in my neighbourhood they do.

nwalbert · #**6249** Posted **Aug 28, 2011, 12:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

An opportunity lost as far as I'm concerned.

BTW, the casino has been surprisingly successful so far and there are a lot of acts going through the facility.

Agreed, Moncton has an excellent night life and a downtown casino would have been popular. Most folks my age (mid to late twenties) have zero interest in the Moncton casino based on location.

There have been a few articles in the paper noting that profits have been less than anticipated.

mylesmalley · #**6250** Posted **Aug 28, 2011, 1:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Right, and in Saint John it's more likely that those casual gamblers would be people who have no room to afford such a luxury. And we all know what happens when people have zero money. How many other cities in the Maritimes require security guards at banks or grocery stores? Because in my neighbourhood they do.

Halifax has security guards at some grocery stores. But point taken.

kwajo · #**6251** Posted **Aug 28, 2011, 10:14 PM**

Indeed, there are a ton of security guards at HRM stores, and in St. John's as well. Hardly a Saint John-only issue.

nwalbert · #**6252** Posted **Aug 28, 2011, 11:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

Indeed, there are a ton of security guards at HRM stores, and in St. John's as well. Hardly a Saint John-only issue.

The only place in Saint John I have ever seen a security guard is the North End Sobeys.

cdnguys · #**6253** Posted **Aug 28, 2011, 11:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

The only place in Saint John I have ever seen a security guard is the North End Sobeys.

McAllister Sobey's has one also. Nothing compared to grocery stores in south Florida - security guards walking around with a loaded pistol flopping around their belt.

mylesmalley · #**6254** Posted **Aug 29, 2011, 12:45 AM**

I was once at a McDonalds in Montreal that had several guards. Like, actual guards...not the rent-a-cops you see at 2am on saturdays.

JHikka · #**6255** Posted **Aug 29, 2011, 1:59 AM**

I guess my main point was that I hadn't seen guards at stores in Fredericton or Moncton, which would be most comparable to Saint John.

If you go down to South Florida (or anywhere in the south, for that matter) there's police and guards everywhere. State Troopers have an awesome way of hiding behind things on the sides of Interstates.

JHikka · #**6256** Posted **Sep 2, 2011, 8:38 PM**

Photos!

I have to say, with the construction of the Commons Building, the NBCC Allied Health Centre and the reconfiguration of parking and driving, the campus has a much different feel than it did in the spring. Really excited to see how this turns out for the future of the school.

Commons Building

NBCC Allied Health Centre

Uptown Saint John

Harbourfront Condos, Lantic Sugar Site, etc.

All photos by me, via Flickr