Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 428

jsbertram · #**8541** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 3:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

The 2040 map shows a rapid transit link on the same route as the seabus. I wonder if this means some faster form of the seabus, like a hydrofoil.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?...

The Canada Line can be extended north from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay - perhaps even further up Lonsdale as far as Queens Road.

However, with the never-ending problems getting funding for the NeverBeen line to PoCo, or the decades of discussions about the line under Broadway to UBC, and the Arbutus line, I doubt we'll live long enough to see the Canada Line extended to the North Shore.

Canadian Mind · #**8542** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The Canada Line can be extended north from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay - perhaps even further up Lonsdale as far as Queens Road.

No it can't, it dead-ends at waterfront with no option to turn in either direction or to dig deeper. It'll run into the skytrain line.

logan5 · #**8543** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 4:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

No it can't, it dead-ends at waterfront with no option to turn in either direction or to dig deeper. It'll run into the skytrain line.

I'm no transit expert like Stephen Rees or Malcolm Johnstone, but leaving the Canada Line without the option of extending past Waterfront Station seems just plain dumb. Now you can't take advantage of the expensive Downtown stations that have been already built if the Canada Line was able to be extended down Hastings St. or wherever.

Any transit fantasy about the Canada Line will have to take place in Richmond. How boring.

Millennium2002 · #**8544** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 6:55 AM**

Well... I could list the dozens of other complaints on the Canada Line (or even Millennium and Expo lines) but I won't because it'll run on forever + they're already built + there's no point. =O

Just hope Evergreen and anything built afterwards is built to a better standard.

mr.x · #**8545** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 9:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm no transit expert like Stephen Rees or Malcolm Johnstone, but leaving the Canada Line without the option of extending past Waterfront Station seems just plain dumb. Now you can't take advantage of the expensive Downtown stations that have been already built if the Canada Line was able to be extended down Hastings St. or wherever.

Any transit fantasy about the Canada Line will have to take place in Richmond. How boring.

Well, they could always extend the Expo Line by curving it up north to Lonsdale....or they could also build a tube on the bed of the Inlet for the Canada Line, and perhaps make the transition to underground somewhere else? But I do agree, it is quite dumb.

Canadian Mind · #**8546** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 2:36 PM**

According to CBC news they are planning on selling the naming rights for the stations to corperations? Something like a 1 time fee of $600 000. I think it's a dumb idea. Anyone know anymore about this?

WarrenC12 · #**8547** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

No it can't, it dead-ends at waterfront with no option to turn in either direction or to dig deeper. It'll run into the skytrain line.

What about the expo line? It looks to be pointing in the right direction, but I'm guessing the CN rail lines are in the way?

What about above ground down Powell St?

Canadian Mind · #**8548** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What about the expo line? It looks to be pointing in the right direction, but I'm guessing the CN rail lines are in the way?

What about above ground down Powell St?

I don't see why they couldn't. If I ever get around to doing my own transit fantasy diagram I'm pushing expo all the way down hastings, then to BCIT, Metrotown, then back W through SW Vancouver, eventually going up Arbutus, across False Creek, and loop around downtown to interline with Expo at Waterfront Station

trofirhen · #**8549** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 4:18 PM**

double post

Zassk · #**8550** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 5:11 PM**

SkyTrain underneath Burrard Inlet would be so incredibly expensive that the existing terminus at Waterfront could easily be rebuilt as part of the same project - for either Expo Line or Canada Line. The existing alignment at Waterfront is pretty much immaterial to a crossing. If we want either of these lines to continue under the inlet, then we can reconstruct it to do so. We are talking about "just" a couple hundred million dollars in a project that would cost several billion.

For that matter, the future Hastings Line could be an extension of the Expo line or the Canada Line. Again, the Waterfront station can be rebuilt for either line to make it properly turn eastward. It all depends on which consortium puts in the best bid, doesn't it?

agrant · #**8551** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

I don't see why they couldn't. If I ever get around to doing my own transit fantasy diagram I'm pushing expo all the way down hastings, then to BCIT, Metrotown, then back W through SW Vancouver, eventually going up Arbutus, across False Creek, and loop around downtown to interline with Expo at Waterfront Station

100 hundred years and 10 billion dollars later... I like the extention along Hastings idea. A portal could fit right in at the end of current Expo Line, although they would have to rejig the Westcoast Express for awhile.

SpongeG · #**8552** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 6:11 PM**

the streetcar didn't look too busy on saturday perhaps they should get better word out

pic by me

TransitJack · #**8553** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 9:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

No it can't, it dead-ends at waterfront with no option to turn in either direction or to dig deeper. It'll run into the skytrain line.

^^^ correct.. there is a bulk head that seperates the "fill" from the stable shoreline that IS the downtown peninsula. Plus the actual ST line.

Even if it were possible. the cost would be tremendous. Burrard Inlet is very very deep, not to mention wide. The distance underwater would be better served by building a line where ppl actually live.

TransitJack · #**8554** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 9:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zassk

SkyTrain underneath Burrard Inlet would be so incredibly expensive that the existing terminus at Waterfront could easily be rebuilt as part of the same project - for either Expo Line or Canada Line. The existing alignment at Waterfront is pretty much immaterial to a crossing. If we want either of these lines to continue under the inlet, then we can reconstruct it to do so. We are talking about "just" a couple hundred million dollars in a project that would cost several billion.

For that matter, the future Hastings Line could be an extension of the Expo line or the Canada Line. Again, the Waterfront station can be rebuilt for either line to make it properly turn eastward. It all depends on which consortium puts in the best bid, doesn't it?

I think we are stuck with CL ending exactly where it is. It is barely below the surface of the street and all those buildings and their deep foundations basically prevent any ability to reconstruct the line to "bend" and go eastward. Especially silly to consider when you factor in the fact the E Line already Points EAST.

trofirhen · #**8555** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 10:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransitJack

I think we are stuck with CL ending exactly where it is. It is barely below the surface of the street and all those buildings and their deep foundations basically prevent any ability to reconstruct the line to "bend" and go eastward. Especially silly to consider when you factor in the fact the E Line already Points EAST.

By emphasizing this, are you considering the eventual prolongation going deeper, then under the harbour?

Something I'd love to see, but don't think I ever will, nor most posters here.

Prometheus · #**8556** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 10:52 PM**

If we are talking fantasy, then a future East Hastings line would continue around the north side of Burnaby Mountain along Barnet Road and connect with the Evergreen Line in Port Moody. The Hastings Line would be entirely underground (except the Barnet Road section) and East Hastings would become a dense, vibrant urban corridor with a virtually continuous street wall.

SpongeG · #**8557** Posted **Jul 24, 2011, 11:13 PM**

its not like the north shore is going to grow that much - i could see more sea bus crossings before i see a canada line extension

what do you people want here? door to door limo service? oh my gawd i might have to transfer how common how dare they make me transfer

xd_1771 · #**8558** Posted **Jul 25, 2011, 8:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

I don't see why they couldn't. If I ever get around to doing my own transit fantasy diagram I'm pushing expo all the way down hastings, then to BCIT, Metrotown, then back W through SW Vancouver, eventually going up Arbutus, across False Creek, and loop around downtown to interline with Expo at Waterfront Station

This I also had in mind but I would rather create this as a brand new line. Extending the Expo would be of no use due to likely lack of through movements depending on direction, along with inflexibility of frequency/line cost due to the frequency having to be the same as the more regionally oriented expo line throughout. This would also look extremely confusing on a map. A new line could use the same Waterfront Station centre-track platform, where most transfers would be get off-get on using the same platform (with Expo Line trains terminating there and trains of the new line going through).

I do have one idea to share when it comes to taking the Expo Line past Waterfront. An ideal extension to me would turn the trains around at Waterfront (via a simple switch in lights and a proceeding out of the station in the direction of entrance), continue on new track up to Stanley Park, proceed through Stanley Park and over the Lions Gate Bridge or other crossing, and then towards a transit exchange at Park Royal where transit connections to the rest of the north shore can be established. The Seabus would remain running as a direct downtown Vancouver -> Lonsdale Quay link and can still have a good (as well as comfortable) ridership level. This would create a single regional Expo Line route from the north shore through Vancouver, Metrotown and New Westminster to Surrey and Langley. It will link many cities and could work very effectively.

I just don't think there would be enough through movements to make an extension of the Expo in the direction of east to be worth it (though I would love for a new line to serve that area). My idea would be much more viable, have much more through potential, and more suitably serve the regional purpose of the expo line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

If we are talking fantasy, then a future East Hastings line would continue around the north side of Burnaby Mountain along Barnet Road and connect with the Evergreen Line in Port Moody. The Hastings Line would be entirely underground (except the Barnet Road section) and East Hastings would become a dense, vibrant urban corridor with a virtually continuous street wall.

This will create redundancy with the west coast express. Continuing to Willingdon then turning south services way more (important) local and regional movements, while still being able to serve the same Port Moody to Vancouver movements with one transfers (out of three or four choices you can make: new line, expo line, canada line or vancouver streetcar) or perhaps even none (if you take the west coast express into Vancouver). [assuming the destination is Watefront of course].

Zassk · #**8559** Posted **Jul 25, 2011, 5:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I just don't think there would be enough through movements to make an extension of the Expo in the direction of east to be worth it (though I would love for a new line to serve that area).

Extending Expo Line would not be intended for through movements of people. It would be for through movements of trains. If Hastings Line is connected to Expo or other existing line, then you do not need a new OMC. (Where would you build an OMC otherwise?)

Canadian Mind · #**8560** Posted **Jul 25, 2011, 7:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd_1771

This I also had in mind but I would rather create this as a brand new line. Extending the Expo would be of no use due to likely lack of through movements depending on direction, along with inflexibility of frequency/line cost due to the frequency having to be the same as the more regionally oriented expo line throughout. This would also look extremely confusing on a map. A new line could use the same Waterfront Station centre-track platform, where most transfers would be get off-get on using the same platform (with Expo Line trains terminating there and trains of the new line going through).

I think you and I are on the same page. I had no intention of interlining except for waterfront station.