How do we fix Canada's "population void"?

[MolsonExport]

Canada 200 million. That's the Canada I don't want to live in.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^try Northern New Brunswick from Plaster Rock to Renous. 🞵🞵🞵🞵-🞵🞵🞵🞵 all on that highway. except moose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_Route_108

That sounds like Ontario between Mattawa and Deep River.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by freeweed

When I visit the US I'm saddened at how little "empty" there is. The desert and a handful of national parks, but beyond that there are people EVERYWHERE. To me (and maybe this is due to having grown up there) the huge empty space smack dab in the centre of the country DEFINES Canada in large part. And yes, it truly is central Canada -well, just east of centre, but close enough. The heart of this country is empty and beautiful and mostly unspoiled.

But in a weird way, doesn't America have a population dead zone of its own?

I'm thinking now of states like North Dakota, Montana, South Dakota, Idaho, Wyoming.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

But in a weird way, doesn't America have a population dead zone of its own?

I'm thinking now of states like North Dakota, Montana, South Dakota, Idaho, Wyoming.

Montana, Nevada - yes. I haven't spent enough time in Wyoming to comment, but beyond that - the Dakotas and Idaho are far more populated than NW Ontario. Or even, to be honest, the Canadian prairies/mountain regions. They just don't have the large cities like Canada does.

But in terms of "emptiness" - nothing other than maybe Nevada holds a candle. There are roads and settlements everywhere in the US. There simply isn't anywhere undeveloped to be found, at least nothing on the scale of what we have here.

Admittedly, part of this may be the Interstate system. By its very nature it attracts population so it always feels "built up" to some degree. But even getting off of it.. the only place I truly felt alone was around Rachel, NV. I think I saw 3 cars and maybe 5 buildings in an hour. THAT was bizarre for the US, but fairly common on any remote, minor highway in Canada.

[Symz]

If you take a look the population spread is obviously in the most southern portions of our country and as far as Ontario goes the population thins out almost accordingly to the layout of the canadian shield which consists of lots of pines, lakes, bogs, and rock and makes it difficult to develop the land.

[M II A II R II K]

A population void isn't a problem. Overcrowding is.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Winnipeg: 1,000,000+
Saskatoon: 1,000,000+
Regina: 1,000,000+
Halifax: 1,000,000+
Thunder Bay: 500,000+
Sault-Ste. Marie: 100,000+
Sudbury: 500,000+
North Bay, 100,000+
Ottawa-Gatineau: 2,100,000+
London: 750,000+
Halifax: 1,000,000+

Windsor-Quebec-Halifax High Speed Rail, Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary High Speed Rail, Saskatoon-Regina High Speed Rail, and Sault-Ste. Marie-Sudbury-North Bay High Speed Rail.

THAT'S the Canada I want to live in.

How about Lethbridge-Calgary-Red Deer-Edmonton-Saskatoon-Regina-Winnipeg-Thunder Bay/Minneapolis and Regina-Medicine Hat-Calgary HSR?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

How about Lethbridge-Calgary-Red Deer-Edmonton-Saskatoon-Regina-Winnipeg-Thunder Bay/Minneapolis and Regina-Medicine Hat-Calgary HSR?

If it's doable.

[isaidso]

Canada could easily accommodate 100,000,000 people and still have vast areas that are empty. Only the Maritimes and the Windsor-Quebec City corridor would be densely populated. That constitutes about 10% of our land area???

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Winnipeg: 1,000,000+
Saskatoon: 1,000,000+
Regina: 1,000,000+
Halifax: 1,000,000+
Thunder Bay: 500,000+
Sault-Ste. Marie: 100,000+
Sudbury: 500,000+
North Bay, 100,000+
Ottawa-Gatineau: 2,100,000+
London: 750,000+
Halifax: 1,000,000+

Windsor-Quebec-Halifax High Speed Rail, Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary High Speed Rail, Saskatoon-Regina High Speed Rail, and Sault-Ste. Marie-Sudbury-North Bay High Speed Rail.

THAT'S the Canada I want to live in.

No BC or Alberta cities? What is your dream populations for Victoria, Nanaimo, Kelowna, Red Deer? etc...

I would also like to see our population near 50 or 60 million, but I would love for a good chunk of it to come from natural increases (we need to up the birth rate here). This is not an anti-imigration post, i always want there to be new people coming to Canada, but i do not like relying on immigration as the primary factor for of our population increase. I always fear that as soon as there is a major crisis in a part of Canada, many of the immigrants will flee the area and go back t their nations of origins. This was displayed very openly in Japan after the tsunami, a huge portion of the foreign born population / people simply left. If you are only there for a year, i am ok with that, but those who are long term residents, i find it kind of sad to just up and go when the land that has been providing for you over the last many years or decades now needs your help.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

No BC or Alberta cities? What is your dream populations for Victoria, Nanaimo, Kelowna, Red Deer? etc...

I would also like to see our population near 50 or 60 million, but I would love for a good chunk of it to come from natural increases (we need to up the birth rate here). This is not an anti-imigration post, i always want there to be new people coming to Canada, but i do not like relying on immigration as the primary factor for of our population increase. I always fear that as soon as there is a major crisis in a part of Canada, many of the immigrants will flee the area and go back t their nations of origins. This was displayed very openly in Japan after the tsunami, a huge portion of the foreign born population / people simply left. If you are only there for a year, i am ok with that, but those who are long term residents, i find it kind of sad to just up and go when the land that has been providing for you over the last many years or decades now needs your help.

I left out BC and Alberta because they're already growing rapidly and the major Albertan cities (Edmonton and Calgary) are already over one million.

As for natural interests, you'd better start convincing "natural Canadians" to have more babies, but good luck with that. Immigration is a good thing, and I'm proof of that. My father was an immigrant but all of us that were born in Canada speak English and French, instead of English and Spanish, even though we can all speak a bit with our Dads, uncles, aunts, grandmas, etc. We all (as far as I can tell) love our home and country of birth; Canada. It's unlikely that the children born in Canada to immigrant parents (who tend to come from hellholes of the world) are going to want to go to a worse-off country should a crisis arise in Canada. They are born and raised here and if we do our jobs right and help them feel welcomed and included, their loyalty will be to Canada, and not some hellhole in the world.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Canada could easily accommodate 100,000,000 people and still have vast areas that are empty. Only the Maritimes and the Windsor-Quebec City corridor would be densely populated. That constitutes about 10% of our land area???

No i would not say easily you have to look at the whole picture and not just land area.

Ontario

Social Programs
Many parts of ontario social programs are over loaded as it is now you add another 15-20 million people thats would make thigns far far worse.

Hospitals
Look at places such as toronto and ottawa waits in many hospitals for treatment are long adding millions of people would increase this probleam big time.

Jobs
Would there be enough jobs in ontario i am not sure if there would be if add 15-20 million more people.

Farm Land
You would be getting rid of alot of farm land for housing etc this i think could have a bad impact.

Now with all that said i am not aginst this idea of adding more people but they can't add 15-20 million in ontario with out fixing our social programs first etc.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I left out BC and Alberta because they're already growing rapidly and the major Albertan cities (Edmonton and Calgary) are already over one million.

As for natural interests, you'd better start convincing "natural Canadians" to have more babies, but good luck with that. Immigration is a good thing, and I'm proof of that. My father was an immigrant but all of us that were born in Canada speak English and French, instead of English and Spanish, even though we can all speak a bit with our Dads, uncles, aunts, grandmas, etc. We all (as far as I can tell) love our home and country of birth; Canada. It's unlikely that the children born in Canada to immigrant parents (who tend to come from hellholes of the world) are going to want to go to a worse-off country should a crisis arise in Canada. They are born and raised here and if we do our jobs right and help them feel welcomed and included, their loyalty will be to Canada, and not some hellhole in the world.

I think that is an awesome story, and as I said i am not against immigration (my wife just immigrated from Japan), but sadly in BC there are a good number of immigrants that are very affluent and are only here for money, they are the ones likely to leave on a moments notice of trouble. I have a few Chinese friends that I know would jump ship ASAP.

And as far as i am concerned you are not an immigrant, you are born and raised in Canada, which is exactly what I want to see more of! haha. Because while i may be 4th / 5th generation born Canadian, my family tree originated from Italy, Austria, Sweden and England (i should note all these cultures use to be highly divided and considered as different races, but luckily over time these sub groups mixed together to the point where their importance in Canada is now minimal). I don't want a huge baby boom, but an average birth rate of 2.5 would be awesome.

I just hope people here keep mixing. I just don't like families that disown their children for not marrying their "own kind." makes me sick.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I think that is an awesome story, and as I said i am not against immigration (my wife just immigrated from Japan), but sadly in BC there are a good number of immigrants that are very affluent and are only here for money, they are the ones likely to leave on a moments notice of trouble. I have a few Chinese friends that I know would jump ship ASAP.

1. I envy that you have a Japanese wife. I made the mistake of letting a great Japanese gal get away from me.

Does your wife have a single sister?

2. On the flipside, I know some Chinese who would rather deal with Armageddon in Canada than return to China.

And as far as i am concerned you are not an immigrant, you are born and raised in Canada, which is exactly what I want to see more of! haha.

But my point is that without immigration, I, and a lot of other Canadians, would not exist.

Because while i may be 4th / 5th generation born Canadian, my family tree originated from Italy, Austria, Sweden and England (i should note all these cultures use to be highly divided and considered as different races, but luckily over time these sub groups mixed together to the point where their importance in Canada is now minimal). I don't want a huge baby boom, but an average birth rate of 2.5 would be awesome.

It would be a healthy growth rate, that's for sure.

I just hope people here keep mixing. I just don't like families that disown their children for not marrying their "own kind." makes me sick.

There seems to be a fair amount of mixing, but I have noticed that ethnicities from Asia, India and the Middle-East tend to gravitate towards their own kind, but there are those that break the mold and mix it up.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

There seems to be a fair amount of mixing, but I have noticed that ethnicities from Asia, India and the Middle-East tend to gravitate towards their own kind, but there are those that break the mold and mix it up.

Most of this in my experience is a generational thing. Segregation occurred many years ago when Canada was pretty much all white, but "different kinds" of white - good French kids would only marry French kids, good Irish would only marry Irish, and so on. Obviously that's almost entirely non-existent these days. Your average white Canadian is just that - Canadian. And doesn't even give these ethnic differences a second thought. But it really took several generations before people stopped being so divisive.

I'm already seeing this in the ethnicities you mention. Yup, the first and usually second generations tend to marry in kind. But after that (and we're really just starting to see the first large numbers of this)... they simply don't care. The old world stereotypes and cultural isolationism just seems to melt away given enough generations. It may take a little while longer due to much more obvious visible differences between people, but it's already happening and is clearly where we're headed.

Of course there are always holdouts. My parents were good Catholic kids who'd never DREAM of marrying Protestant, let alone Jew, Hindu, etc. One generation later and let's just say it's amazing they haven't disowned us all.

[telyou]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I don't want a huge baby boom, but an average birth rate of 2.5 would be awesome.

I just hope people here keep mixing. I just don't like families that disown their children for not marrying their "own kind." makes me sick.

That 2.5 is ambitious. Most people my age, late 20s early 30s, have said they don't want more than 2 kids and would be content with 1.

I'm also one of those immigrants you speak of. I came here from Greece, first to Montreal then to Toronto with an internship stopover in Florida.
As it stands, for the size of the Country, Canada's population is small. However, i don't see the government trying to encourage a Canadian type of pride. I can't really explain it. I'll use Australia as an example. I have familly there and although many were born in Greece they just absolutely love Australia and consider themselves Australian. They would even cheer for Australia in soccer in a game against Greece. Now from what i've noticed in my almost one decade here is that you don't get that same sense over here. If i'm wearing a Canada shirt most people will think i'm a tourist or some corny looser. Whereas in most other countries i've been too it's a fashion trend. I saw hundreds of people wearing France soccer jerseys when i visited last summer and same goes for Germany.
And from what i've been reading on these threads there's a HUGE divide between the various Canadian cities. It seems everyone hates one another.
I just don't get it.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by telyou

That 2.5 is ambitious. Most people my age, late 20s early 30s, have said they don't want more than 2 kids and would be content with 1.

I'm also one of those immigrants you speak of. I came here from Greece, first to Montreal then to Toronto with an internship stopover in Florida.
As it stands, for the size of the Country, Canada's population is small. However, i don't see the government trying to encourage a Canadian type of pride. I can't really explain it. I'll use Australia as an example. I have familly there and although many were born in Greece they just absolutely love Australia and consider themselves Australian. They would even cheer for Australia in soccer in a game against Greece. Now from what i've noticed in my almost one decade here is that you don't get that same sense over here. If i'm wearing a Canada shirt most people will think i'm a tourist or some corny looser. Whereas in most other countries i've been too it's a fashion trend. I saw hundreds of people wearing France soccer jerseys when i visited last summer and same goes for Germany.
And from what i've been reading on these threads there's a HUGE divide between the various Canadian cities. It seems everyone hates one another.
I just don't get it.

In many countrys around the world they are proud of there country and the history along with the hertiage and they protect that in canada i don't think people are really proud i am not saying all but a fair amount.

[freeweed]

telyou, Canadians have traditionally been some of the least likely to display their patriotism, this is true. But during the Olympics in Vancouver, everyone was wearing Canadian hockey team jerseys, etc. It's a very recent phenomenon and I think if you stick around another 20-30 years, you'll see a massive change.

Most recent immigrants to the country (which is still a huge chunk of the population) identify more with their original home than their new country. It's got a lot to do with Canada's almost ferociously tolerant attitude towards other cultures. We're also incredibly self-deprecating, in that quite a lot of Canadians can be very "meh" about their own country, but almost worship other places. There are a whole lot of Euro and Asiaphiles in Canada, that's for sure. Especially people who've never even lived there.

Canadian cities don't have any more animosity between themselves than US states do. Or, for that matter, than English cities do. Or I'm sure many other places. We're just extremely vocal about it - when your country is so damned perfect, you have to find something to complain about, so we 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about other cities I guess.

I don't really get it either but I've grown up with it. Canadian indifference to ourselves is almost legendary.

[telyou]

There was a lot of patriotism during the Olympics but i find it's died out.
2 perfect examples:
When i was in Montreal last weekend i went to have a coffee with an old buddy who lives in the West Island, i think it's Beaconsfield. We were evesdropping to these young ladies, 3 of them, trashing men and then for some reason it turned into a trash Canada conversation. That there's no jobs, pollution, crime, bridges falling. I'm wondering, and that doesn't happen anywhere else? And to top it off one of them says i wanna move to Florida. Really? Florida? Now these girls looked like they were in their early 30s.
Second example, i took the afternoon off yesterday and decided to have an shake-o-lait at dundas square. Girl next to me asks me where are you visitng from. I ask what do you mean. She asks if i'm a tourist. I asked why she thought i was a tourist. She says you're wearing a Canada t-shirt and carrying a roots shopping bag.
So shopping at Roots is only for tourists i guess. Oh well i need to brush up on my Canadian skills.
Could've taken her out for a drink. She was really cute But i'm taken. Oh well.

[freeweed]

Firstly, Montreal isn't exactly a bastion of Canada love. It's hard to say more without the paranoid thread monitors coming in and screaming at me for daring to speak about it. Just notice the particular things they were complaining about. Second, Toronto is its own beast in many respects. The city pretty well can and does exist "outside" of greater Canada. Hard to describe what I mean but there's definitely a sense of independence in Toronto that I don't see anywhere else in the country. It's kind of ironic that 2 of our oldest cities, with so much history that define this country, sometimes feel a bit distant. Or maybe that's just my western perspective. But I've definitely picked up the vibe you describe when visiting there.

I see plenty of people wearing Canadian-themed clothing and it would never occur to me to make tourist jokes. Maybe it's just more common here, or maybe you ran into some fashionistas. Just seems weird for someone to go out of their way to comment on it, at least in English Canada.

Then again, the Winnipeg Jets just unveiled their new logos, all 3 of which have the maple leaf prominently displayed. To me, this is another example of how we're slowly, finally embracing a bit of patriotic display in this country. Yet half the forums on the Internet are full of people asking why we'd put a maple leaf on a hockey jersey. So I dunno.

I definitely know what you're saying - Canadians historically have been and still are one of the least likely people to really self-identify with their country's symbols. Keep in mind we've only had our own flag for barely 2 generations, and we're some of the most humble people on the planet. Not really sure why that is - I'm personally fiercely patriotic. To each their own eh.