[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

In the next couple of days we will have an answer on this project.

From the federal government or from Rank Inc.?

Thanks for the information.

[hoser111]

Peter McKay w/Steve Murphy on CTV - saying a decision from the federal government would be forthcoming in days, rather than weeks or months.

[q12]

Originally Posted by hoser111

Peter McKay w/Steve Murphy on CTV - saying a decision from the federal government would be forthcoming in days, rather than weeks or months.

Hallelujah, a decision! I'm hoping that the fact they are telling us this now is that it is going to be a positive decision, and we are gonna see construction start immediately.

http://atlantic.ctv.ca/?video=504014
CTV ATLANTIC

[fenwick16]

Does anyone else see a resemblance between Steve Murphy and Keith Olbermann? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Olbermann ). They sound quite similar also.

[halifaxboyns]

That was also repeated by Peter McKay on CTV.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

That was also repeated by Peter McKay on CTV.

That is the video clip that we were referring to - the CTV video clip between Steve Murphy and Peter MacKay.

[sdm]

Proposed convention centre cost to rise: Source

It’s unknown how much three levels of government are now being asked to give N.S., HRM previously agreed to kick in $56M each With the original price of $159 million, the feds were asked to contribute $47 million.

ALEX BOUTILIER
METRO HALIFAX
Published: July 21, 2011 1:43 a.m.
Last modified: July 21, 2011 7:54 a.m.

The cost of the proposed downtown convention centre is going up.

Metro Halifax has learned the province has received updated costs for the project, previously estimated at $159 million.

How far north the price tag has crept isn’t known, but it could be in the millions.

The governing NDP is neither confirming nor denying it has the new numbers.

“I’ve got nothing to report,” Shawn Fuller, Premier Darrell Dexter’s director of communications, said yesterday.

“We don’t have public discussions on ongoing negotiations.”

Developer Joe Ramia guaranteed the $159-million cost until Jan. 15. It was hoped the federal, provincial and municipal governments could arrive at a cost-sharing agreement for the controversial project by then.

When that deadline came and went, Ramia agreed to extend the guarantee until April 15.

Ramia told Metro on April 19 that he was re-costing the project.

“We’ve got contractors and stuff like that, that are working on it,” he said then. “They have to come back and say, ‘Look, here’s the price we gave you and ... here’s the price today.’”

He declined comment on the matter yesterday.

Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal spokeswoman Cathy MacIsaac also refused to comment.

MacIsaac couldn’t say if any new numbers had been forwarded to the federal and municipal governments.

If they have been, it’s news to Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

“I haven’t seen any new numbers from the developer,” he said yesterday.

“(But) I’ll put it this way: We’re down to the short strokes.”


http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/ar...ed-convention-centre-cost-to-rise-source

[hfxtradesman]

Total overall price increase of about 4points on the CC. Your guess how much is good as mine.

[fenwick16]

There was an interesting article/blog posted by Rick Howe today regarding the convention centre. He makes a good point; a price increase would require another vote by HRM Council (and possibly by the provincial government). Hopefully this won't become a self destructing scenario - price increase, political delay, price increase, political delay ...


source: by Rick Howe in Halifax News Net, http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/20353/Ricks-Rants-Friday-July-22nd2011

If there is indeed an increased cost for the convention centre, and I have no doubt Boutilier's sources are bang on, it would require another vote by city council on the deal. The city and the province are already in for $56 million apiece. But faced with a public already somewhat skeptical about investing taxpayers money in such a project, and with a municipal election just over a year away, there's no guarantee council would approve the extra cash. Estabrooks as well wasn't sure he'd be able to convince Finance Minister Graham Steele to increase the province's share if it became necessary because of Nova Scotia's sorry financial state. What will make this all the more interesting would be a favourable decision from Ottawa on its requested $46 million contribution. Defence Minister Peter MacKay says a decision's likely within days. Should the feds get on board, the province and the city would face a dilema if indeed the cost of the convention centre is more than first estimated. Never a dull moment. Stay tuned.

I can understand that a slight increase may be required (the delay is approaching one year now, and there has been some minor inflation). However, a large price increase would be difficult to justify. With the global economy still in the doldrums, inflation for materials hasn't been significant in the past year. The main contractor and subcontractors shouldn't expect significant increases for labour either (if they want the work). It would bother me if Rank Inc waits for the federal approval and then tries to impose a significant price increase for the Nova Centre - that would appear to be opportunistic.

[someone123]

If Rank didn't increase the price according to inflation the deal would effectively get better and better for the three levels of government. An increase at about inflation would cause costs to remain about the same in terms of ability to pay (actually, it is slightly better than that since the HRM and Canada have a growing population).

My guess is that this is lost on most people.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

If Rank didn't increase the price according to inflation the deal would effectively get better and better for the three levels of government. An increase at about inflation would cause costs to remain about the same in terms of ability to pay (actually, it is slightly better than that since the HRM and Canada have a growing population).

My guess is that this is lost on most people.

However, it shouldn't be an automatic increase. Any increase should be directly related to inflationary pressure on the proposed Nova Centre. The federal government is running a large deficit, as is the provincial government (in spite of the recent numbers, there is forecast to be a provincial deficit in the coming year). The municipality is trying to reign in its costs. So I can't agree that there is an increased ability to pay from the 3 levels of government.

In any case, the cost should be based on the cost to build the Nova Centre and not on an increased ability for the 3 levels of government to pay. If that is Rank Inc's logic for increasing the price then that is just an opportunistic price increase.

[someone123]

AllNS published an article tonight entitled "Centre Go Ahead Likely", but it didn't contain any speculation about the likelihood of approval.

Based on all the other similar projects that have been funded I would imagine that it will be approved. I also think that Rank will manage to work things out to take advantage of the huge amount of government money on the table. The chances that they would walk away seem extremely small, and it is in their interest to make it look like this is a marginal project and that the government is getting a good deal.

I really hope that a couple of major projects start soon downtown and that the navel gazing dies down a little bit. Of course, this is Halifax we're talking about, so even if there were a huge building boom there'd be some kind of complaining.

[fenwick16]

Hopefully it will get the HRM and provincial re-approval quickly (if there is a price increase) and Rank Inc will have shovels in the ground within a couple of months; considering that they have to excavate from 50 - 70 feet (depending on the site location), they could be excavating while architectural/engineering plans are being worked on. (I believe the excavation could be conducted during the winter?)

From what I recall, I think that they had something like $20 million budgeted for the planning stage.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

An increase at about inflation would cause costs to remain about the same in terms of ability to pay (actually, it is slightly better than that since the HRM and Canada have a growing population).

My guess is that this is lost on most people.

That is an EXCELLENT point. It is a source of constant frustration that neither the press nor the public ever seem to look at both sides of a balance sheet. People only ever seem to see costs.

An even better example is downtown development, where people will see "incentives" as just handing taxpayers money to developers, without thinking through the mammoth increase in property taxes that will flow to the public coffers once some of these parking lots are finally built on!!

[HRM]

Originally Posted by someone123

An increase at about inflation would cause costs to remain about the same in terms of ability to pay (actually, it is slightly better than that since the HRM and Canada have a growing population).

My guess is that this is lost on most people.

Please explain your rationale for an increase in costs/ability of governments to pay being > an increase in inflation.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by HRM

Please explain your rationale for an increase in costs/ability of governments to pay being > an increase in inflation.

I didn't give one.

[HRM]

Originally Posted by someone123

I didn't give one.

The most common thing people do when they don't want to or can't explain something said/written is to be sarcastic and insert juvenile smileys.

Your comment was not lost. Far from it. It is just incorrect. Very incorrect. Inflation is actually very bad for governments in that people/businesses spend less resulting in lower HST revenues for provincial and federal governments. When inputs become more expensive one of the very first things to go are jobs, resulting in lower income taxes for both provincial and federal governments. So this leaves both levels of governments with less to spend. populations can grow but if there are no jobs for the masses then no tax revenue.

Why do you think interest rates go up when inflation becomes a problem? So inflation does not lead to a recession which would result in lower spending and ultimately lower gov revenues.

Inflation is now starting to be a concern in Canada (NS actually has the highest inflation rate in the country). So why would you think inflation would provide a benefit to governments but also think it would not affect the cost of a $500M project.

Plus an increase in HRM's population in great part is due to migration from other areas of the province so there is no relationship between intraprovincial migration and provincial tax revenue. The city does win however with increased property tax revenue.

And FYI. It is not "the HRM" anymore than it is the Montreal, the New York or the Vancouver. it is simply HRM.

And please no more juvenile retorts and smiley faces. Make statements. Defend them if challenged. But please refrain from Smiley faces. If challenged would you draw a smiley face and hold it up to the committee you are defending a dissertation in front of?

[fenwick16]

I also write "the HRM" for "the Halifax Regional Municipality". It just sounds right.

[Empire]

Is it "GTA" or "the GTA"?

[q12]

Originally Posted by HRM

And FYI. It is not "the HRM" anymore than it is the Montreal, the New York or the Vancouver. it is simply HRM.

And please no more juvenile retorts and smiley faces. Make statements. Defend them if challenged. But please refrain from Smiley faces. If challenged would you draw a smiley face and hold it up to the committee you are defending a dissertation in front of?

Woah, take a chill pill. I hate "The HRM" or "HRM" it should be just Halifax anyways. And who cares what you think when you sound like an a$$.