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  #1521  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 1:53 AM
citywatch citywatch is offline
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
However... I truly feel if we follow your advice, this thread will be depressed all the god damn time and slowly die.
JDR, this thread doesn't need blue sky, big dream, urban studies type of posts to keep it alive. It needs something as basic, but as revealing, as posts like the one from LA/ocman. His comments about his experience in dt on saturday are always what I look for & enjoy in this thread.

It doesn't help that alot of us don't live in dt, or aren't there on a very regular basis. So it's easy to wander off & start talking about transit projs serving west LA or the valleys, or other cities, or debating about very generalized topics that apply to any city from A to Z. IOW, this thread easily goes from being "downtown project rundown" to "urban affairs 101". And that's harder to avoid when a major slowdown in new devlpt in dtla doesn't give alot of new angles to cover.

To make up for my lack of firsthand posts like the one from LA/OCman, I have to glom onto stuff from others. These 2 articles appeared in yesterdays LA times. i've left out several parts of them due to ssp's rules of posting copyrighted material....


Quote:
The upside of living downtown

The streets of downtown Los Angeles may have once been considered gritty, but they are now home to a diverse collection of people, art and entertainment

By Joan Springhetti, July 17, 2011

Eight years ago, as I watched a building near my work be converted from vacant offices into lofts, I couldn't stop thinking about it. If I lived there, in that beautiful old building, I could walk less than a block to work. That micro-distance was important: Any farther and I wouldn't have felt safe walking home after dark.

There were no streetlights on the block back then. Homeless people curled up in doorways and under cardboard boxes. On the sidewalk was a row of public outhouses, which I soon realized were "owned" by drug dealers. (I will never forget one lunch hour watching as a man who'd just made a buy took off his suit jacket, crouched between two outhouses, rolled up the sleeve of his dress shirt and put a needle in his arm.)

Today, the outhouses are gone and there is a restored landmark (the former St. Vibiana's Cathedral) and two major new civic buildings (Caltrans and the LAPD headquarters) across from me. The streetlights are on; that was the first of many civic initiatives my neighbors and I became involved in as we rolled up our own sleeves. We fought for a park, to save a neighborhood landmark, for a Metro line to be built underground, not above. Even when we didn't prevail, we won. We got to know our elected representatives and their staffs, developers, city planners, the LAPD and Fire Department. And we got to know each other.

Slowly but surely, new businesses opened: coffee shops, galleries, theaters, groceries and dozens of restaurants and clubs. It's been exciting every time. Blocks considered unsafe became safe. Initiatives by police and social service agencies reduced the number of people living on the streets as well as the most blatant drug dealing.

Gradually, Main and Spring and other streets came back to life. When I walk down the street, I always see someone I know. When I ask what's going on, something usually is.

I walk to the library (the branch in Little Tokyo and to the Central Library on 5th Street). I walk to my doctor's and optometrist's offices, to Walt Disney Concert Hall and to the free Grand Performances. I walk to one of the coolest little hardware stores in the world (Anzen Hardware & Supply), to a great store for used books (The Last Bookstore) and to purchase art supplies (at Raw Materials). I walk to restaurants with friends for dinner and drinks, and we never need a designated driver.

Often, my neighbors and I put together impromptu dinners in each other's homes. There are plenty of great cooks in the kitchen, and lessons too. We've savored incredible cheese souffle, pho, arroz con pollo and apple pie. We throw parties to celebrate neighbors becoming citizens, and we held a centennial celebration when our building turned 100.

Living downtown means coming to terms with seeing poverty, mental illness and broken spirits. But it also means realizing that "the homeless" are individuals with names and emotions, and that a piece of sidewalk is sometimes a home.

My community is filled with marvelous artists, musicians, lawyers, bankers, photographers, filmmakers, architects, nurses, doctors, clothing designers, educators, engineers and skateboarders. And it is also home to their bulldogs, poodles, greyhounds, labs and schnauzers.

Joan Springhetti is an editor and writer who has lived in downtown Los Angeles since 2003.

Quote:
Downtown L.A.: A nightmare on Every Street

Downtown Los Angeles boasts some big-city perks like spacious lofts and trendy restaurants, but living there is a different kind of beast.

By Mike Armstrong
July 17, 2011

"Look, Daddy, that man's going to the bathroom!"

No, not the words any daddy wants to hear from his 10-year-old daughter, especially during a stroll through their brand-new neighborhood.

Moving my wife and kids into a downtown Los Angeles loft may not win me "Dumbest Dad of the Year" honors, but it should at least get me into the quarterfinals. The loft itself was great. More like a movie set than an apartment. High ceilings, new appliances, breathtaking views and a deck with a Jacuzzi that was used at least once every six months during our year there. It wasn't what was inside the building that broke the deal; it was what was out there on the mean and strange streets of downtown Los Angeles.

Why we moved there is academic. More space for less money, a new environment, cool restaurants and various other meaningless enticements. I got sucked in; I was wrong, and I admit it. I've apologized to everybody involved, and I will continue to do so until I am either dead or forgiven. In the meantime, let me tell you about my downtown L.A.

Within a week or so after our arrival, there were ominous signs that the neighborhood was still working out its kinks. There were two murders in two hotels within three blocks of our new home. What I thought were firecrackers at 4 a.m. on the Fourth of July were in fact gunshots in front of our building. And there must have been something about me that made me a target for every heroin dealer on the block, like the fact that I was breathing.

I've lived in big cities before: Boston, New York, Toronto. I've been mugged, and I've seen things on subway platforms at night that I'm still trying to forget. But downtown Los Angeles exists in its own separate category. It's the low-grade horror movie of American cities.

At night it's an odyssey of sirens, police helicopters and, if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself out on the sidewalk, a particular class of zombie-like human being seemingly so devastated by drugs or mental illness or both that he or she can't even form the words to ask for money.

...One of our neighbors who became a good friend (she moved out last month) was groped for several minutes on a street corner in broad daylight by something resembling a human being. As she was trying to fend off this gentleman, a group of men employed by some jewelry stores near Broadway and 7th stood watching with amusement, never offering to help.

It was around this time that "For Rent" signs in other neighborhoods started to catch my eye. I also took the subtle hints from my daughters. "Daddy, I hate living downtown. Why did you bring us here? I thought you loved us."

But honestly, not everything was terrible.

I'll miss the Los Angeles Athletic Club, the Central Library and the surprisingly wonderful Indian food from a restaurant located on the ground floor of a seedy hotel. I'll miss the view and having an empty Jacuzzi in which to store things. I'll especially miss Ricky the Pirate, a beloved fixture who can be found in and around Spring and 6th. His "Arrrgghh" will frighten you the first time you hear it at 1 in the morning from the shadows of a doorway, but after a while, you won't feel safe without it.

As I put my daughters to bed in our new, somewhat safer and more boring neighborhood, I tell them to "Sleep tight," "Don't let the bed bugs bite," and "Not everybody who reads the Bible screams it at the top of his lungs."

Mike Armstrong writes screenplays and television scripts in Los Angeles.
^ I notice the article that disses the hood has received more page views at latimes.com than the article that casts DT in a positive light. Maybe cuz of the saying in the world of news----& based on what alot of the public is drawn to----that "if it bleeds, it leads"?
     
     
  #1522  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 2:10 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Fair enough citywatch. The reason I care so much about this thread is because most of the 3.0 thread was basically nothing but complaining about the economy.

Those articles you posted were pretty interesting, but do you think you could post in a negative-first-positive-last fashion?

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Originally Posted by LA/OCman View Post
Observations from the Historic District:

Walked over to Little Tokyo on Saturday to have dinner at The Spice Table. The owner/chef used to work at Mozza...this was my second time there and the food, atmosphere and staff made it an exceptional visit. The women next to me were visiting from the Westside. Little Tokyo was so busy...thousands of people walking around.
Were you able to catch a glimpse of the new Space Shuttle Challenger model? That might be why Little Tokyo was crowded.
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  #1523  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 2:11 AM
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Found this 6 hr time-lapse video of Art Walk. Unreal.
thanks for posting that. I'd probably otherwise never have come across it.

So much better to see 5th & Spring today than the way it was even a few yrs ago. If only cuz the Alexandria hotel no longer has the hideous, fugly red brick tile that used to cover up its windows above its ground level. That was the type of change----& a BAD one, at that----so typical throughout dt from around the 1960s til not all that long ago. Included in such changes for the worse is the steel mesh that was applied to the front of the bldg housing clifton's cafeteria. Or even worse----cuz it can never be undone---was the bldg next to clifton's that had its original ornate facade ripped down & covered with what looks like brown plastic.

And 5th & Spring also is so much better today cuz it again has some street life! I recall the yrs when anything east of Olive St was no man's land. The Biltmore hotel was a lone sentinel back then, marooned next to pershing sq, & was like the dividing line between west & east. Most of the hood's $$ & livelihood had become limited to a few blocks on the west side of DT, & even that part of DT----pre LA Live, pre-Disney, pre Staples, pre Elleven/Evo/Luma----wasn't in such great shape too.
     
     
  #1524  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 5:12 AM
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Mike Armstrong writes screenplays and television scripts in Los Angeles.
...and, like most television writers in Hollywood, laces his prose with a measure of reactive exaggeration and hyperbole. As an illustration of downtown living, the piece is overwrought nonsense.
     
     
  #1525  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 5:18 AM
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Found this 6 hr time-lapse video of Art Walk. Unreal
Cool! Thanks for posting.
     
     
  #1526  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 5:39 AM
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^ Ya that is awesome!
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  #1527  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 5:42 AM
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Originally posted by citywatch

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I've lived in big cities before: Boston, New York, Toronto. I've been mugged, and I've seen things on subway platforms at night that I'm still trying to forget. But downtown Los Angeles exists in its own separate category. It's the low-grade horror movie of American cities. By Mike Armstrong

I have been doing a slow burn ever since reading this guy's article. First of all, DTLA is no where near the level of urban Boston, NYC and Toronto. Not even close. Its a work very much in progress; a neighborhood in transition. To move in with a little girl is just asking for trouble and suggests a father who doesn't take his parenting seriously enough.

Secondly, Boston, NYC and Toronto have had families living in their urban cores for decades with all the amenities that go with such a lifestyle. The same can not be said for DTLA. This guy was putting the cart well before the horse while traumatizing his daughter. Not surprisingly his experience with DTLA living was a negative one and he will be bad mouthing DTLA to anyone who will listen. And of course there will be those who will enjoy listening to his BS. This guy has not done downtown any favors.
     
     
  #1528  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 5:56 AM
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Joan Springhetti, who wrote the positive article, is a good friend and neighbor who I've known well since moving downtown 6 years ago. Glad to see her article getting some screen time here.
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  #1529  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 6:48 AM
LAofAnaheim LAofAnaheim is offline
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Originally posted by citywatch




I have been doing a slow burn ever since reading this guy's article. First of all, DTLA is no where near the level of urban Boston, NYC and Toronto. Not even close. Its a work very much in progress; a neighborhood in transition. To move in with a little girl is just asking for trouble and suggests a father who doesn't take his parenting seriously enough.

Secondly, Boston, NYC and Toronto have had families living in their urban cores for decades with all the amenities that go with such a lifestyle. The same can not be said for DTLA. This guy was putting the cart well before the horse while traumatizing his daughter. Not surprisingly his experience with DTLA living was a negative one and he will be bad mouthing DTLA to anyone who will listen. And of course there will be those who will enjoy listening to his BS. This guy has not done downtown any favors.
Wow, your rant about that negative article, sounded just as negative. Do you live in downtown LA? And you can say the exact same thing? I know a few families who live in my building here in South Park.

Who knows what district this guy moved into? Maybe he lived in the Barker Lofts which is basically "no mans land" after 8 pm? Maybe they moved to 9th/Main close to the dangerous Huntington Hotel?

There's tons of variables..but to say downtown is not for families is flat out wrong. Some families do choose to live here, and even with little kids (I know, I see some of them in my building at 9th/Flower).

And here's a blog of a parent who lives here: http://ginnycase.blogspot.com/

And..she loves living here with her baby. Don't let one man's misguided opinion in the LA Times cast a general/negative view of family living in downtown LA.

Anybody catch the free Flock of Seagulls and Grand Performances this Saturday night in downtown? Can you say it was unsafe seeing people walk between the 2 performances along Grand and/or Olive?
     
     
  #1530  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 1:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Fair enough citywatch. The reason I care so much about this thread is because most of the 3.0 thread was basically nothing but complaining about the economy.

Those articles you posted were pretty interesting, but do you think you could post in a negative-first-positive-last fashion?



Were you able to catch a glimpse of the new Space Shuttle Challenger model? That might be why Little Tokyo was crowded.
No, there the crowds were coming out of the National Center for the Preservation of Democracy and MOCA Little Tokyo. I have spent more time in Little Tokyo during the day so I was so surprised to see the nightlife....dozens of restaurants and lots of retail seem to be the draw. Starbucks and Yogurtland were bustling as usual. Little Tokyo has done a great job planting trees and keeping the sidewalks very clean...not the gum-stained sidewalks we see on Spring and Broadway. Also for some reason the homeless population does not venture much further north than 3rd Street. There is just a great energy there.
     
     
  #1531  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 3:07 PM
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No, there the crowds were coming out of the National Center for the Preservation of Democracy and MOCA Little Tokyo.
  1. The Art in the Streets exhibition at the MOCA (Geffen) continues to draw large crowds.
  2. Last week was Tokyo Design Week. They had shipping container galleries spread throughout Little Tokyo (Sci Arc had a cool one on urban planning in LA!)
  3. Levi's was sponsoring a series of film workshops, also at the MOCA.
  4. A few people probably also came out for the Flying Pig restaurant's grand opening.
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  #1532  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2011, 3:59 PM
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No, there the crowds were coming out of the National Center for the Preservation of Democracy and MOCA Little Tokyo. I have spent more time in Little Tokyo during the day so I was so surprised to see the nightlife....dozens of restaurants and lots of retail seem to be the draw. Starbucks and Yogurtland were bustling as usual. Little Tokyo has done a great job planting trees and keeping the sidewalks very clean...not the gum-stained sidewalks we see on Spring and Broadway. Also for some reason the homeless population does not venture much further north than 3rd Street. There is just a great energy there.
This border is still quite pronounced on 3rd (homeless on the south, partiers on the north). But it's really only a couple of blocks to Pete's and the rest of Main/Spring so there's hope for improvement.

Little Tokyo has had day and night activity for some time. I hope it now connects down across Alameda and hooks up with the brewery and Arts District. And, of course, a couple of parking lots could go. Could be another desination in the making.
     
     
  #1533  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 1:21 AM
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Little Tokyo has had day and night activity for some time. I hope it now connects down across Alameda and hooks up with the brewery and Arts District. And, of course, a couple of parking lots could go. Could be another desination in the making.
A mixed-use development on this lot in particular would go really far towards uniting Little Tokyo and the Arts District:



Its really a shame that the middle part of the block is occupied by a big-box store.
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  #1534  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 2:09 AM
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Originally posted by LAofAnaheim

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Wow, your rant about that negative article, sounded just as negative. Do you live in downtown LA? And you can say the exact same thing? I know a few families who live in my building here in South Park.

Who knows what district this guy moved into? Maybe he lived in the Barker Lofts which is basically "no mans land" after 8 pm? Maybe they moved to 9th/Main close to the dangerous Huntington Hotel?

There's tons of variables..but to say downtown is not for families is flat out wrong. Some families do choose to live here, and even with little kids (I know, I see some of them in my building at 9th/Flower).
First of all, its true I don't live in DTLA nor have I seen DTLA in over ten years. So I am basing my judgment on what I have read here, the video clips I have viewed and the photos I have seen posted here and on other sites. And as far as I can tell, DTLA and South Park are not there yet for small kids between the ages of 5 and 15. Kids need spaces in which to run, ride their bikes and hook up with other kids. And no, Grand/Hope Park doesn't cut it when it comes to those needs.

Secondly, I am pretty sure this guy didn't live in South Park. In fact, its sounds like he was down on Main where from all I have read its still pretty rough. What is his daughter supposed to do all day.....stay in their loft and play video games? Cool restaurants typically don't cut it for kids.

Its one thing for you and/or your spouse or significant other to move into a transitioning neighborhood but its quite another to bring along a 10 year old kid. And I know that from first hand experience. I am a strong advocate for children and IMO their care is far more important than the revival of any neighborhood, including DTLA. The guy who wrote that article was thinking about cool restaurants and a new environment , and not apparently what was best for his daughter.

I apologize for my negativity but in my book, I consider it being a realist.
     
     
  #1535  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 3:22 AM
LAofAnaheim LAofAnaheim is offline
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Originally posted by LAofAnaheim



First of all, its true I don't live in DTLA nor have I seen DTLA in over ten years. So I am basing my judgment on what I have read here, the video clips I have viewed and the photos I have seen posted here and on other sites. And as far as I can tell, DTLA and South Park are not there yet for small kids between the ages of 5 and 15. Kids need spaces in which to run, ride their bikes and hook up with other kids. And no, Grand/Hope Park doesn't cut it when it comes to those needs.

Secondly, I am pretty sure this guy didn't live in South Park. In fact, its sounds like he was down on Main where from all I have read its still pretty rough. What is his daughter supposed to do all day.....stay in their loft and play video games? Cool restaurants typically don't cut it for kids.

Its one thing for you and/or your spouse or significant other to move into a transitioning neighborhood but its quite another to bring along a 10 year old kid. And I know that from first hand experience. I am a strong advocate for children and IMO their care is far more important than the revival of any neighborhood, including DTLA. The guy who wrote that article was thinking about cool restaurants and a new environment , and not apparently what was best for his daughter.

I apologize for my negativity but in my book, I consider it being a realist.
Fine...but remember the reference to Boston, New York, etc...?

There are definitely some parts of Boston/New York that you don't want kids hanging out......so you should expect the same for downtown LA. There are some parts that are not right (Industrial district, Arts district), but other areas where it's perfectly legit (South Park, Little Tokyo, Chinatown).

So to say that it's okay in Boston, New York, but not okay in DT LA, is kinda an unfair comparison... We cannot generalize the whole area for one thing.

By the way, I appreciate that you keep up to the news about what's happening in the area constantly. We need more people like you who keep excited to the area, but in a way, is unable to be in the area.

But what you read in media....may not be the same as when you live hear and interact with your neighbors. None of the young families here in South Park seem that scared; especially when they have access to pools, parks (Grand Hope does work as a walkable/accessible park), and the Grand Avenue summer performances and Pershing Square evening events. For 1 event that is kinda rowdy (yes, after 9 pm, it may not be safe to be at Artwalk), there's dozens of other downtown events that can be shared with families (i.e. Pershing Square on Ice, Grand Avenue summer performances, cicLAvia, performances at the Music Center, weekend performances at Cathedral of our Lady of Angels, etc..).
     
     
  #1536  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 5:17 AM
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Fine...but remember the reference to Boston, New York, etc...?

There are definitely some parts of Boston/New York that you don't want kids hanging out......so you should expect the same for downtown LA. There are some parts that are not right (Industrial district, Arts district), but other areas where it's perfectly legit (South Park, Little Tokyo, Chinatown).

So to say that it's okay in Boston, New York, but not okay in DT LA, is kinda an unfair comparison... We cannot generalize the whole area for one thing.

By the way, I appreciate that you keep up to the news about what's happening in the area constantly. We need more people like you who keep excited to the area, but in a way, is unable to be in the area.

But what you read in media....may not be the same as when you live hear and interact with your neighbors. None of the young families here in South Park seem that scared; especially when they have access to pools, parks (Grand Hope does work as a walkable/accessible park), and the Grand Avenue summer performances and Pershing Square evening events. For 1 event that is kinda rowdy (yes, after 9 pm, it may not be safe to be at Artwalk), there's dozens of other downtown events that can be shared with families (i.e. Pershing Square on Ice, Grand Avenue summer performances, cicLAvia, performances at the Music Center, weekend performances at Cathedral of our Lady of Angels, etc..).
Civic Park will be perfect for families to go to and have a picnic, run around, fly kites and all that good stuff once it gets finished =D
     
     
  #1537  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 6:28 AM
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I just read the following & I'm shocked.

maybe someone who posts to this thread is employed in the hotel business, or has indirect connections to it, or knows someone who works in that industry, & can verify whether this info is correct or not. iow, I can't believe it's this bad......

Quote:
Construction of a $1-billion NFL stadium and a new wing of the Convention Center in downtown Los Angeles would dramatically increase the number of convention bookings while generating $22 million annually for the city, according to the findings of two reports commissioned by the project's developer.

Bruce Baltin, one of the two AEG-hired consultants, concluded that hotel bookings from increased conventions would more than double by 2016 to 551,000 room nights. By comparison, San Diego had 600,000 convention room nights in 2010, and San Francisco had 810,000 last year, he said.
^ so LA, even if it doubles----DOUBLES!----the amt of hotel business it gets----& which won't even begin to happen for another 5 yrs----still will be well below SD & SF?! You mean it currently gets only around 270,000 bookings per yr?! You mean a city like SF gets almost over 3 times that per yr?!

Forget about whether the hood will be helped or not by a new stadium combined with an expanded convention hall, or whether the study is totally honest or not. If the figures really are as they claim to be, that alone indicates something is really, really weak in dtla. That suggests ppl like the screenwriter who slammed the hood are the ones who've been able to get a lot of negative word of mouth out there to the public. It means that LA, even with a larger, better convention ctr, still will be lagging other cities.

ppl responsible for LA, esp dt, have to start yelling "unacceptable!!!"
     
     
  #1538  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 6:55 AM
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Forget about whether the hood will be helped or not by a new stadium combined with an expanded convention hall, or whether the study is totally honest or not. If the figures really are as they claim to be, that alone indicates something is really, really weak in dtla. That suggests ppl like the screenwriter who slammed the hood are the ones who've been able to get a lot of negative word of mouth out there to the public. It means that LA, even with a larger, better convention ctr, still will be lagging other cities.


ppl responsible for LA, esp dt, have to start yelling "unacceptable!!!"
Yes lets forget about things like neighborhood improvements for the citizens of LA and focus more on what people from other cities think of us and our rankings tourist bureau publications. We all know convention bookings make or break a city, just look at those great bustling American cities L.A. is 'lagging' behind: Orlando, Las Vegas and Anaheim.

Some of you put stock in the stupidest shit.
     
     
  #1539  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 7:29 AM
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Also for some reason the homeless population does not venture much further north than 3rd Street. There is just a great energy there.
This was obviously not always the case in Little Tokyo. There was a serious homeless issue with the area even a few years ago. When American Apparel was located at 2nd/Central, a few doors down from where it is today, I was told my the sales associates that homeless people would come into the store and take an entire stack of clothes and run out! Of course you couldn't do anything because the homeless would probably be just thrilled if you sent them to a warm prison cell of the night with some hot food.

But as you can see, as prosperity continues, it doesn't allow that shit to happen as easily. And I have a feeling it'll be what happens to many of the other districts in DTLA as it continues to attract more NORMAL folks.
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  #1540  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2011, 8:36 AM
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Some of you put stock in the stupidest shit.
I don't recall your posting here before, & your ssp name indicates your account is new. so I'm not sure if you're just trolling. but if you aren't, then I ask: are you employed in any kind of business? if you are, do you ever wonder what will happen to your job if that business isn't doing enough sales per day, per wk, per month?

I read that the new hotel at LA live was doing better than predicted. but I then noticed the level of occupancy they gave still was below what I've heard is the point where hotels breakeven. one of their competitors, the owner of the bonaventure hotel, has often been a big nuisance when new hotels have tried to get a toehold into the hood. they've sounded almost hard up in fighting to keep new hotels from opening up.

I read that when the grand wilshire hotel promoted a special offer not long ago, where guests would pay a room rate equal to that day's temperature, it didn't draw much business.

if having enough business in a hood to keep ppl fully employed or from becoming too desperate when job hunting is a sign of putting stock in the "stupidest shit", then that's exactly the type of stock that more ppl need to deal with.
     
     
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