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  #4621  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2011, 2:23 PM
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Unless the line comes with a couple new pedestrian bridges over the canal most definetely a route further west has higher catchment further out. As for in downtwon, more central is better if the goal is getting the maximum number of people to using it.
Considering the fact that Bronson was being considered at one time to be a surface tram route and that the city's current TMP has no concept for the Carling route past the O Train tracks, the QED/Elgin corridor has a lot of catchment area. It would definitely call for more ped bridges across the canal.

I can't see a surface tram along Bank Street as being practical, as it is the only continuous north-south traffic arterial through the central CBD and the Glebe, it would have to be a subway.
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  #4622  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 3:24 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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I'm just reading the Canada Day service.

The Royal Visit will likely increase crowds substantially and there are likely to be 250,000 people there. As a result, more closures and service I think is needed. Some thoughts:

* Albert and Slater should be buses only all day, no other traffic.
* I would run a Saturday, not a Sunday, base schedule. While that only adds a small number of routes into service, it increases local frequencies and service hours.
* All downtown routes with weekend service should get extra service in the afternoon and evening (plus post-fireworks overloads, see below). Such impacts Routes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 85, 86, 87, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 and the O-Train. Route 99 should have all trips between 10 am and 9 pm northbound and 2 pm to end of service southbound go downtown. Due to the large number of detours, Routes 153 and 316 should not operate even if using a Saturday base schedule.
* Not sure why service is free in the evening yet passengers have to pay for the inbound and daytime trips. I would charge fares throughout (it would also be a revenue gold mine), and encourage use of the DayPass as a family pass as well.
* Why is the Mackenzie King Bridge closed in the evening? It mentions safety reasons, but it would be no different than anywhere else.
* After the fireworks, special buses should be stationed nearby for each routes to supplement the scheduled service, boarding from empty. They should start at a central point and head onward in all directions. There would be more 95s than any other route.
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  #4623  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 3:51 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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They should start at a central point and head onward in all directions. There would be more 95s than any other route.
No. They should start at multiple points, load and go, so that passengers have a chance of getting on board, and getting a seat, no matter where they are boarding from.

There should be a bunch of out-of-service artics ready to go in service, at each downtown station, once the climactic booms finish.
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  #4624  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 3:53 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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I can't see a surface tram along Bank Street as being practical, as it is the only continuous north-south traffic arterial through the central CBD and the Glebe, it would have to be a subway.
Given the amount of disruption the reconstruction cost, they shoulda just built a box tunnel under Bank over the past few years, reserved for future use, while they had it all dug up!
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  #4625  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 1:30 PM
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Given the amount of disruption the reconstruction cost, they shoulda just built a box tunnel under Bank over the past few years, reserved for future use, while they had it all dug up!
I think Richard Eade made that same argument repeatedly. another missed opportunity; I don't think that the Bank St dig took any longer than the Cambie St dig in Van....
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  #4626  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 2:32 PM
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I'm just reading the Canada Day service.

* Not sure why service is free in the evening yet passengers have to pay for the inbound and daytime trips. I would charge fares throughout (it would also be a revenue gold mine), and encourage use of the DayPass as a family pass as well.
* Why is the Mackenzie King Bridge closed in the evening? It mentions safety reasons, but it would be no different than anywhere else.
* After the fireworks, special buses should be stationed nearby for each routes to supplement the scheduled service, boarding from empty. They should start at a central point and head onward in all directions. There would be more 95s than any other route.
I've always assumed the safety issue on Mackenzie King Bridge has to do with the confined nature of the space, the sheer size of the crowds, and the huge volume of buses. Just a really bad combination.

The free service is partly to speed boarding post-fireworks. Trying to collect fares from the drunken masses would significantly slow things at a time when speed is a major factor (getting huge crowds dispersed as quickly as possible).

The way the post-Fireworks exodus has been handled in the past is as follows: starting at around 8:30 buses are pulled off of supplementary service across the city and brought downtown for staging. Dozens of buses are lined up westbound on Mackenzie King with more ready to go at Hurdman, and eastbound down Slater with more ready to go at Lebreton. Buses aren't assigned to particular routes or schedules but are called forward by supervisors managing each 'direction' and instructed to become 95s, 96s, etc. as needed (ensuring a relatively even distribution among routes), beginning as soon as the fireworks end. Buses depart as soon as they're full (i.e. immediately). Once they've finished their first outbound trips, buses return back downtown and repeat until the crowds have cleared. It's quite the operation.
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  #4627  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 2:43 AM
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Originally Posted by McC View Post
I think Richard Eade made that same argument repeatedly. another missed opportunity; I don't think that the Bank St dig took any longer than the Cambie St dig in Van....
I think Cambie took less.
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  #4628  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 6:26 PM
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City issues first call to firms for LRT contract

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/06/30/city-issues-first-call-to-firms-for-lrt-contract

By Jon Willing ,Ottawa Sun
First posted: Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:57:40 EDT AM


It's all aboard for train companies wanting a piece of the LRT pie.

The City of Ottawa on Thursday officially requested firms begin bidding on the electric light rail project between Tunney's Pasture and Blair station.

The request for qualifications is asking for submissions from interested firms which can bring LRT "on budget and on schedule." The city seeks firms with experience designing, constructing and maintaining an LRT system like the one Ottawa proposes to build.

Tracks would run 12.5 km, including a downtown tunnel, between Bronson Ave. and the University of Ottawa. The cost estimate in 2009 dollars is $2.1 billion.

Both upper-tier levels of government have committed $600 million for the project.

Council is expected to receive an updated cost estimate and new design details in July. Opening is scheduled for 2018.

Council has already agreed to have a design-build-maintain contract for LRT.

The current request for qualifications, which has a deadline of Sept. 13, is expected to shortlist the firms which will compete for the final tender.

The city has been expecting to see at least 10 firms to bid on the contract, which will be awarded by the end of 2012.
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  #4629  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 9:31 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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The city and OC Transpo deserve a big fat F for the lousy service and total chaos that existed today.

The city told everybody to take transit to get downtown and they should have known that this was going to be a big event especially with favourable weather.

When everybody did take transit, they were caught unprepared.

There were simply not enough buses running and they were not finding a way to keep the buses running efficiently.

It is also time for the city to grow up. Canada Day is a special day and offering Sunday service is simply no longer acceptable. With all the other chaos, it was impossible to time your trip to make transfers and with Sunday service offering only hourly service on some feeder routes, how could you reliably get home????? Wait for next year, when even fewer buses will be running on Sunday. In our community of 15,000 to 20,000 people, there will be but one bus per hour on Sundays starting in September. Ridiculous.

When I reached South Keys station this morning, there was at least a full busload of passengers waiting. There was even more waiting at Greenboro and another bus load waiting at Billings Bridge. Three buses in a row could not accomodate all the passengers. If you had the misfortune of waiting at Hurdman or some of the smaller stations, good luck. Obviously, the buses were too crowded which slowed everything down. Fare collection was a problem. It took too long to get the passengers on the buses and it took too long to get people off who were not travelling to downtown.

The trip home in late afternoon was much worse. There were dozens of buses on the MacKenzie King Bridge. Nothing was moving. Of about 25 buses lined up eastbound, only one was going to the southend and it was blocking everything else because they were trying to stuff every possible passenger on. It could not accomodate the demand. There were hundreds of people waiting on the bridge. When we approached the University of Ottawa, they had stopped all westbound buses, dozens of them and hundreds of people were let off the buses on the Transitway between stations with fencing blocking access to sidewalks. I am no sure why they were doing this other than it appeared that nothing was moving westbound on the bridge either. A passenger in a wheelchair at Hurdman had been waiting for an hour and a half. Only 5 southbound buses had passed in that time and every one was full. Why so few buses? We couldn't accomodate him either, and I knew that none of the next 25 buses were going in our direction. Why were there not inspectors at Hurdman and Lebreton making sure that gaps in service were eliminated by adding extra buses?

It was impossible to time your trip and with only the help of the driver who stopped the local from leaving on schedule, I would have had a long walk home.

You have to wonder what will happen tonight after the fireworks. I hate to imagine.

When we were on the bus, I wondered what will happen in 2017, which I expect will be a very big celebration on Canada Day. How will our transportation system operate with the Transitway out of commission and still no train in operation? You can extend this to every day use during peak periods when the Transitway is undergoing conversion. It is frightening to think of what will happen when we potentially push our transit system over the edge. What happened today is a taste of what is to come.

I believe it illustrates the folly of our current transit plan. Would we close the Queensway for an extended period of time to upgrade it? This is the same thing. Our plan should have never considered closing the Transitway when we were building rail. Build rail by all means, build a tunnel, but build it somewhere else, anywhere else, that does not close down what we have today. Our transit system is too busy to close down the trunk routes going into downtown.

I will be calling Diane Deans office at the start of the week to express my displeasure.
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  #4630  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 9:51 PM
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You have to wonder what will happen tonight after the fireworks. I hate to imagine.
I'll only respond to this part of your post.

I can confirm that there will be a total of 165 "extras" that will be picking up passengers from Downtown after the fireworks. A number of buses will be laying up at MacKenzie King Bridge prior to the start of fireworks so they'll be ready to start their trips on-the-spot upon the Supervisor's instruction.
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  #4631  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 9:58 PM
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There were tons of trip cancellations (looking at the Updates) which didn't help.

I've noticed some packed STO buses too near Jacques-Cartier Park as well. Oh course, many trips were delayed because of the detours, plus the brief closure of Laurier this morning when the couple was the Museum. Buses from Ottawa were either on time or as much as 20 minutes late.
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  #4632  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 11:21 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The city and OC Transpo deserve a big fat F for the lousy service and total chaos that existed today.

The city told everybody to take transit to get downtown and they should have known that this was going to be a big event especially with favourable weather.

When everybody did take transit, they were caught unprepared.

There were simply not enough buses running and they were not finding a way to keep the buses running efficiently.

It is also time for the city to grow up. Canada Day is a special day and offering Sunday service is simply no longer acceptable. With all the other chaos, it was impossible to time your trip to make transfers and with Sunday service offering only hourly service on some feeder routes, how could you reliably get home????? Wait for next year, when even fewer buses will be running on Sunday. In our community of 15,000 to 20,000 people, there will be but one bus per hour on Sundays starting in September. Ridiculous.

When I reached South Keys station this morning, there was at least a full busload of passengers waiting. There was even more waiting at Greenboro and another bus load waiting at Billings Bridge. Three buses in a row could not accomodate all the passengers. If you had the misfortune of waiting at Hurdman or some of the smaller stations, good luck. Obviously, the buses were too crowded which slowed everything down. Fare collection was a problem. It took too long to get the passengers on the buses and it took too long to get people off who were not travelling to downtown.

The trip home in late afternoon was much worse. There were dozens of buses on the MacKenzie King Bridge. Nothing was moving. Of about 25 buses lined up eastbound, only one was going to the southend and it was blocking everything else because they were trying to stuff every possible passenger on. It could not accomodate the demand. There were hundreds of people waiting on the bridge. When we approached the University of Ottawa, they had stopped all westbound buses, dozens of them and hundreds of people were let off the buses on the Transitway between stations with fencing blocking access to sidewalks. I am no sure why they were doing this other than it appeared that nothing was moving westbound on the bridge either. A passenger in a wheelchair at Hurdman had been waiting for an hour and a half. Only 5 southbound buses had passed in that time and every one was full. Why so few buses? We couldn't accomodate him either, and I knew that none of the next 25 buses were going in our direction. Why were there not inspectors at Hurdman and Lebreton making sure that gaps in service were eliminated by adding extra buses?

It was impossible to time your trip and with only the help of the driver who stopped the local from leaving on schedule, I would have had a long walk home.

You have to wonder what will happen tonight after the fireworks. I hate to imagine.

When we were on the bus, I wondered what will happen in 2017, which I expect will be a very big celebration on Canada Day. How will our transportation system operate with the Transitway out of commission and still no train in operation? You can extend this to every day use during peak periods when the Transitway is undergoing conversion. It is frightening to think of what will happen when we potentially push our transit system over the edge. What happened today is a taste of what is to come.

I believe it illustrates the folly of our current transit plan. Would we close the Queensway for an extended period of time to upgrade it? This is the same thing. Our plan should have never considered closing the Transitway when we were building rail. Build rail by all means, build a tunnel, but build it somewhere else, anywhere else, that does not close down what we have today. Our transit system is too busy to close down the trunk routes going into downtown.

I will be calling Diane Deans office at the start of the week to express my displeasure.
I agree, that is TOTALLY unacceptable.

If such a huge crowd ever occured again:

* Albert and Slater would have to remain open throughout, and buses only on those corridors. Crossing would only be permitted at 2 or 3 designated locations on green lights.

* ABSOLUTELY NO vehicle traffic, except for buses, city vehicles, emergency vehicles and official vehicles, would be permitted in the downtown core, north of Somerset Street, east of Bronson Avenue and west of King Edward Avenue.

* In addition, ONLY local residents may park downtown outside that area between the Rideau River and Tunney's Pasture and between the Ottawa River and Billings Bridge, as well as on Ile de Hull. Everyone MUST either take public transit or bicycle if coming from outside downtown.

* Suburban shopping areas and institutions would be heavier publicized as park-and-ride facilities, and direct buses to downtown from them should be offered. That may be problematic next year as July 1 is a Sunday and the statutory holiday is Monday, July 2 (so retailers are open on July 1), unless the provincial legislation is revised or the city overrides such with their own ruling (which they should).

* Bus service should be as follows based on the 2012 service plan:

** Base schedule would be a Saturday schedule for local routes
** DIRECT express service would be provided from all the designated Park and Ride facilities - about 30 in all (non-stop) in addition to local service, at least every 30 minutes plus overloads after the fireworks (regular fare before 10 pm)
** Some express routes would also operate from suburban communities to downtown, at least every 60 minutes inbound from 9 am to 7 pm and outbound from 2 pm to 12 midnight, with overloads after the fireworks (all such trips on Canada Day before 10 pm would be regular fare), in order to reduce the load and need for more 95s, 96s, etc.
** Some local routes with peak extensions would operate the peak period pattern
** Extra service would also be provided on Routes 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 85, 86, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 and the O-Train
** Routes 93 and 99 would be extended downtown during the periods mentioned for express service as well
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  #4633  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 11:38 PM
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On both sides it should be a Saturday service with extra trips on the main routes on the Ontario side (which would be more like at time close to weekday peak period intervals).
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  #4634  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2011, 2:36 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Ottawa is growing bigger and Canada Day celebrations are growing bigger. If weather is good, we should expect large crowds. Maybe this year was exceptional, but remember that next year is Queen Elizabeth's diamond jubilee. If she comes to Canada and it coincides with Canada Day as her visits have in the past, we better be prepared. We were not prepared this year.

I have been thinking about it all evening and for the life of me, I do not understand why transit service was so chaotic. Why the buses were not moving downtown? OC Transpo needs to address the public about this. It was a mess.

I mentioned about the University of Ottawa. On top of everything, a fire truck and police car (without lights flashing) tried to pass all the stopped westbound buses, literally blocking our path going eastbound. Thankfully, they backed out of the way. Otherwise, every eastbound bus would have been stopped there as well.
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  #4635  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2011, 11:32 AM
reidjr reidjr is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Ottawa is growing bigger and Canada Day celebrations are growing bigger. If weather is good, we should expect large crowds. Maybe this year was exceptional, but remember that next year is Queen Elizabeth's diamond jubilee. If she comes to Canada and it coincides with Canada Day as her visits have in the past, we better be prepared. We were not prepared this year.

I have been thinking about it all evening and for the life of me, I do not understand why transit service was so chaotic. Why the buses were not moving downtown? OC Transpo needs to address the public about this. It was a mess.

I mentioned about the University of Ottawa. On top of everything, a fire truck and police car (without lights flashing) tried to pass all the stopped westbound buses, literally blocking our path going eastbound. Thankfully, they backed out of the way. Otherwise, every eastbound bus would have been stopped there as well.
I think many citys would have had a hard time with the massive crowds that did go to the hill yesterday.
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  #4636  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2011, 5:29 PM
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Well, about 6pm on CDay I tried to get a local bus to head downtown. Two at-capacity buses breezed by; I walked a couple of kilometres to the Transitway, where I waited for another 20 minutes for any route that had space. Less buses than I expected were heading into downtown; after multiple full 95's and 96's, I got a 97 that had space and took it to Laurier station at Ottawa U. It wasn't a nightmare, but I did have to walk halfway from my house to Parliament Hill.
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  #4637  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2011, 2:25 PM
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Oh, Canada

There was the Canada Day I got out of downtown no problem, only to wait at Blair for 90 minutes for my feeder route to take me home. After that I swore I’d always park at a mall along the transitway. Then there was the year I gave the same advice to my 60 year old parents. Unfortunately, they saw a #2 with the word “Gloucester Centre” on it and decided to take that instead of the 95 I recommended. Two hours of standing in a puke filled bus as it inched along Montreal Road and they finally made it home. I loved my New Edinburgh and Manor Park years where we simply walked home. Now we wisely go a cottage for Canada Day.

Lrt’s friend has a good point. With the transitway closed, getting out of downtown on Canada Day after the fireworks is going to be impossible. As my parents’ experience proves, local cross streets are not a reasonable alternative. But even after the LRT is in place, it’s not like there are going to be extra LRTs that OC Transpo can pull off feeder routes and stick on the main Tunney’s to Blair corridor to accommodate 300,000 people all leaving downtown at the same time.
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  #4638  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2011, 3:45 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Lrt’s friend has a good point. With the transitway closed, getting out of downtown on Canada Day after the fireworks is going to be impossible. As my parents’ experience proves, local cross streets are not a reasonable alternative. But even after the LRT is in place, it’s not like there are going to be extra LRTs that OC Transpo can pull off feeder routes and stick on the main Tunney’s to Blair corridor to accommodate 300,000 people all leaving downtown at the same time.
This has to be another concern. LRT will have a finite capacity even if ultimately a potentially higher capacity. It will be designed for peak period service. Initially, this may be 4 car trains and I am getting the impression that the stations will not be fully set up to handle more. We will not be able to have 6 car trains until we buy more trains and fully build out each station. So, we could be in trouble for major events such as Friday. Because we have shut down the Transitways, we will not have an alternative for getting people out of downtown quickly.

Ottawa would be so better off if we added rail while keeping the Transitways open. This will both increase capacity plus continue to offer flexibility. Remember, that our rail system will have no Park n Ride lots to accomodate suburban residents on Canada Day even after Phase 1 is completed.

Toronto can accomodate massive events downtown because it offers multiple rapid transit routes into and out of downtown.
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  #4639  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2011, 5:49 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is online now
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This has to be another concern. LRT will have a finite capacity even if ultimately a potentially higher capacity. It will be designed for peak period service. Initially, this may be 4 car trains and I am getting the impression that the stations will not be fully set up to handle more. We will not be able to have 6 car trains until we buy more trains and fully build out each station. So, we could be in trouble for major events such as Friday. Because we have shut down the Transitways, we will not have an alternative for getting people out of downtown quickly.

Ottawa would be so better off if we added rail while keeping the Transitways open. This will both increase capacity plus continue to offer flexibility. Remember, that our rail system will have no Park n Ride lots to accomodate suburban residents on Canada Day even after Phase 1 is completed.

Toronto can accomodate massive events downtown because it offers multiple rapid transit routes into and out of downtown.
4 car trains operating at peak times will have more capacity than buses currently offer. Being able to remove even 40,000 people per hour from the core will be a huge improvement over what is available now.

Yes, lifes gonna suck for a while during construction, what city has been able to build a big piece of infrastructure through their core and not had major disruption? Unless the city decides to build a fully deep underground system with mined out stations even in areas far outside of downtown, with access points located only on land not currently being used as right of ways at an order of magnitude higher cost there are going to be disruptions. Who would you have pay for those differences?

Get over it - I've yet to see an alternative on here that solves the problem the LRT project is seeking to solve better than the current project. Going back to the old plan only adds LRVs to the current bus jams.
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  #4640  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2011, 1:41 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This has to be another concern. LRT will have a finite capacity even if ultimately a potentially higher capacity. It will be designed for peak period service. Initially, this may be 4 car trains and I am getting the impression that the stations will not be fully set up to handle more. We will not be able to have 6 car trains until we buy more trains and fully build out each station. So, we could be in trouble for major events such as Friday. Because we have shut down the Transitways, we will not have an alternative for getting people out of downtown quickly.

Ottawa would be so better off if we added rail while keeping the Transitways open. This will both increase capacity plus continue to offer flexibility. Remember, that our rail system will have no Park n Ride lots to accomodate suburban residents on Canada Day even after Phase 1 is completed.

Toronto can accomodate massive events downtown because it offers multiple rapid transit routes into and out of downtown.
Simple: closing the parkways to regular vehicles would bring buses from park and rides in the suburbs directly to downtown. Now if the pathetic NCC would agree on that...
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