YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by deasine

With KIX being much cheaper to land, I wonder if AC could capitalize on this, get fifth freedom landing rights in Japan, and then also fly to another destination. DEL is YVR's largest market without a "direct flight." A direct flight to DEL could potentially take a lot of passengers off competing other airlines, including BA, CI, and CX.

For some reason, I think it would be difficult to get 5th freedom into Osaka. However, if ever there was a good time to try, it would be now.

[Hot Rod]

I read somewhere that HongKong Airlines is buying a bunch of Airbus A380 SuperJumbos.

Could this be just what Vancouver needs for its first A380 service?

[Bigtime]

There is a thread on this purchase over at airliners.net. It sounds like Hainan Airways is using Hong Kong airlines to purchase the 10 A380's for them to ultimately use, this allows them to bypass some of the government stuff in China proper:

Hainan can avoid the byzantine (mainland) Chinese order process by ordering through its Hong Kong subsidiary, Hong Kong Airlines. That is what's going on here.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5181223/

[Yume-sama]

Ahh, China. The wondrous land of loopholes. I'm surprised it took them so long to order some A380's.

In an all economy class configuration they could stuff 800 or so people in them, and if any country could use that, it's China.

And India, too. Wonder when they'll get in on that.

[Bigtime]

Doesn't Kingfisher in India have an order for a few A380's?

[Yume-sama]

So they have~ 10 of them. Apparently Airbus seems to think India will be ordering 1100 passenger jets over the next 20 years.

Boom times ahead in China and India for sure

It would be nice to see Kingfisher fly out here. I know we have so many Indians, you'd assume it would be economical *_*

[Bigtime]

I think there could be potential for a route that went DEL-YYC-YVR-YYC-DEL (if that would even be allowed).

I know flying out of YYC on AC or LH to FRA and the one flight I took on BA to LHR the flights were full of Indians heading that way.

Perhaps a YVR-India route will pop up once AC starts to get their 787's?

[CLC]

By Matthew Hoekstra - Richmond Review
Published: June 24, 2011 1:00 PM
Updated: June 24, 2011 1:26 PM
A six-building business park and hotel is being planned by Vancouver International Airport Authority on Sea Island.

The airport authority issued a request for expressions of interest this week for a design team to plan what it dubs the Sea Island Business Park, which would be located on a 13-hectare (32-acre) airport-controlled site next to Canada Line’s Templeton Station.

The site is next to a newly-built 2,500-space park-and-ride facility for airport employees and near a planned 700,000-square-foot Canada Post mail processing plant that’s expected to open in 2014.

According to Raymond Segat, director cargo and business development for the airport authority, the Sea Island Business Park could bring 800,000 square feet of office space and 250 hotel rooms within two transit stops of the airport terminal.

“We see this as being a real change agent to bring the airport closer to the downtown business community, using the Canada Line as a connector to that,” said Segat.

Segat said any revenue from the project would go back into the airport and keep fees low for its carriers.

Aircraft noise won’t be an issue for the business park’s new tenants, according to Segat, adding the buildings will be constructed with a minimum gold LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) standard.

“The offices will be soundproof,” he said. “The site has unbelievable attractive views and positioning. You’re going to be able to see outside your window planes landing.”

The office towers would range from approximately four to eight storeys, cost $200 million to build and be phased in “over the next several years as dictated by market conditions and demand,” according to the proposal document.

Construction on the first buildings and hotel is expected to begin in 2012.

Although the site doesn’t offer a central employment base, being located next to an airport and rapid transit line would be an advantage to international companies, said Ron Bagan, managing director for the Colliers International in Vancouver.

“There is definite evidence in the suburban market that being right on or close to a station, that those projects have a much lower vacancy rate than projects that are not on rapid transit,” said Bagan, adding projects pending along Vancouver’s Cambie corridor could compete with the Sea Island site.

City hall’s role in the development is “quite limited,” said city spokesperson Ted Townsend, as the land is owned by the federal government and controlled by the airport authority through a long-term lease.

Coun. Harold Steves said it makes sense to locate businesses on Sea Island that require the airport’s services, adding new taxes from the new development would be welcomed by the city.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Doesn't Kingfisher in India have an order for a few A380's?

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

So they have~ 10 of them. Apparently Airbus seems to think India will be ordering 1100 passenger jets over the next 20 years.

Boom times ahead in China and India for sure

It would be nice to see Kingfisher fly out here. I know we have so many Indians, you'd assume it would be economical *_*

Kingfisher does have A380s ordered, however, there was speculation on whether that is actually feasible. From what most know, it's mostly on hold.

And like I said earlier, YVR-DEL is the most popular route without a direct flight right now. Being a *A flyer, I would totally support Air Canada pioneering on this route. But again, I know the loads of this route, and it can fluctuate quite a bit depending on the season (and it doesn't necessarily follow the traditional high/low season schedule).

Originally Posted by Bigtime

There is a thread on this purchase over at airliners.net. It sounds like Hainan Airways is using Hong Kong airlines to purchase the 10 A380's for them to ultimately use, this allows them to bypass some of the government stuff in China proper:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5181223/

As much as I like an A380 to fly to YVR, I don't think it will happen with Hong Kong Airlines. YVR-HKG (and now YVR-CAN) is highly competitive amongst airlines, and CX already has 2 daily flights out to YVR. It'd be great to see Hong Kong Airlines further adding competitiveness, but Hong Kong Airlines has a lot of other routes that they want to compete directly with Cathay Pacific (namely HKG-LHR, HKG-SFO, and HKG-LAX). That being said, a HKG-JFK route with a stopover at YVR could be likely, but I still have my doubts it would be with an A380.

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I think there could be potential for a route that went DEL-YYC-YVR-YYC-DEL (if that would even be allowed).

I know you live in YYC, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to fly to YYC first before YVR, when it passes through YVR first. Anyway, unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by deasine

I know you live in YYC, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to fly to YYC first before YVR, when it passes through YVR first. Anyway, unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved.

Have it stop in YVR first then, I think between YVR and YYC we could support this kind of service year round.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Have it stop in YVR first then, I think between YVR and YYC we could support this kind of service year round.

DEL-YYC-YVR-DEL would probably make more sense - shorter route that basically serve the same purpose

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DEL-YVR-YYC-DEL

[trofirhen]

I know you live in YYC, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to fly to YYC first before YVR, when it passes through YVR first. Anyway, unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved.[/QUOTE]

Deasine, when you say unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved, do you mean that one or both of our main carriers will have to have rights to Delhi before the route is approved? I'm just trying to clarify.

Also, if they DO operate, would Kingfisher get landing rights in Canada also?

[hollywoodnorth]

WestJet has "aspirations to become a much bigger player in the transborder markets," Saretsky said. "We want to feed traffic into our network from all geographies around the world."

"India specifically is an important point for us," he said.

It's also a market that rival Air Canada (AC.B.T) has set its sights on, although the airline is waiting to take delivery of the Boeing 787 before introducing routes to India.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110614-706904.html

[Gordon]

Any International expansion for WestJet would be through codeShares & Alliances Unless they want to move away from their business model( Southwest Airlines) Single plane type. This is one of the things made westjet so successful. who knows maybe they will join Oneworld or Skyteam.

[Bigtime]

I don't think Westjet will join Oneworld or Skyteam. Their current CEO comes from Alaskan, which has done a very nice job of making plenty of agreements with airlines from all alliance groups. I very much see that as something Westjet will continue to try and do, without locking themselves into any one group (of course trying anything with the Star Alliance carriers is probably a no go).

[trofirhen]

Nice to see the India market come up for scrutiny. Now maybe Emirates will pose no threat to us. (Though they would probably decide it wasn't worth it flying here, not after this)

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Any International expansion for WestJet would be through codeShares & Alliances Unless they want to move away from their business model( Southwest Airlines) Single plane type. This is one of the things made westjet so successful. who knows maybe they will join Oneworld or Skyteam.

you are incorrect .... they may have started with the SouthWest/Ryan Air model .... BUT they have already started to experiment OUTSIDE that box.

example >> http://nycaviation.com/2011/02/photo-westjet-welcomes-boeing-757-to-fleet-for-hawaii-service/

over the next decade they will add a 2nd (and even 3rd) aircraft type to satisfy the Long haul routes they want to feed into their network. think 787.

ALSO take a look at AirAsia ...... they created AirAsia X a long haul sub airline.

I could see West Jet doing that ... but I think they will keep it in the West Jet standard brand name.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I know you live in YYC, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to fly to YYC first before YVR, when it passes through YVR first. Anyway, unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved.

Deasine, when you say unless AC and WS are operating, this route won't be approved, do you mean that one or both of our main carriers will have to have rights to Delhi before the route is approved? I'm just trying to clarify.

Also, if they DO operate, would Kingfisher get landing rights in Canada also?

Think: will Transport Canada approve a route that will threaten competition on both carriers? If they aren't allowing more landing slots for Emirates because Air Canada is complaining, what makes you think they will allow a non-Canadian airline operate between two Canadian cities?

As hollywoodnorth, WestJet's model isn't so much a low-cost carrier anymore. I can really see WestJet grow into a more of hybrid model: AirAsia X, Air Berlin, Aer Lingus.

[hollywoodnorth]

ALSO to note ... Southwest Airlines is no longer a 1 type fleet

details >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#AirTran_Airways_.E2.80.93_acquired_2011

they will be a Boeing 717 & Boeing 737 fleet as of the new year when they officially bring in AirTran Airways.

[satishreddy]

Originally Posted by deasine

With regards to SIN, SQ pulled the YVR-ICN-SIN route supposedly due to the economic recession, but I think another part of the reason was because SQ could only fly 3 times to YVR and wanted more (reminiscent of the current Emirates/Qatar/Etihad situation?). SQ also flew to YYZ previously, but was shut out after complaints from AC. It's sort of funny how AC and SQ are part of the same alliance, but both really have little cooperation between one another.

Canada and Singapore signed a new air services bilateral in 2007. See

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/releases-nat-2007-07-h213e-3274.htm

Quote from above site:

The agreement is a modern framework for air services that permits any number of air carriers from either country to operate non-stop passenger and all-cargo scheduled air services as frequently as desired, between any city in Canada and Singapore.


I believe (take this with a grain of salt) that Singapore wanted to increase the frequency of SIN-ICN-YVR from 3 per week to daily, but were not given permission. They can fly nonstop SIN-YVR as many times as they like under the new bilateral, but I don't think they can make money on that routing. As far as I know, in North America, they only fly non-stop between SIN and LAX and SIN and Newark. I don't think they even fly non-stop SIN -SFO.