YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

any chance that Air Canada will match the YVR-CAN route that China Southern started on June 15?

Possibly when they start taking delivery of their new 787s

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

any chance that Air Canada will take advantage and add the YVR-KIX route BACK!!!!???

Highly unlikely. The combination of high landing fees in KIX and stagnant economic growth in Japan (plus the impact of the earthquake/tsunami in Fukushima) means AC won't be adding capacity to Japan anytime soon.

[Johnny Aussie]

Speaking of China Southern....

The first flight from Guangzhou is now en-route to YVR.

Due to arrive 20 minutes early at 10:00am according to YVR website.

[giallo]

^ I might fly to Guangzhou before I head to Vancouver in July, so this new flight is perfectly convenient.

[Hourglass]

Vancouver Sun article on the new service. Note the mention of a new 4x weekly service from YVR to Shanghai. No idea when this is supposed to start and it wasn't mentioned in any of the press releases around the service launch.

China Southern Airlines begins direct flights between Vancouver and Guangzhou
New service expected to save at least two hours travel time each way

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/China+Southe...angzhou/4952606/story.html#ixzz1POKcDso7

China Southern Airlines has started direct passenger service between Vancouver and Guangzhou, a move that’s expected to boost business and tourism between the two cities.

The inaugural flight to Vancouver International Airport (YVR) Wednesday morning went smoothly and both the incoming flight and outgoing flight to Guangzhou were full, said YVR’S senior policy adviser for Asia, Dora Kay. “It was really great.”

The three-times-weekly service will be Canada’s first and only direct flight to Guangdong, China’s most populous province and a key hub for foreign trade. The direct flight is expected to save at least two hours travel time each way.

Until now, passengers heading to Guangzhou have had to travel via Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong.

China Southern is also launching a four-times-a-week service from YVR to Shanghai, a move that’s expected to boost B.C.’s seafood and fruit export market.

A delegation was on hand for Wednesday’s inaugural flight, including China Southern Airlines president and CEO Tan Wangeng, YVR president and CEO Larry Berg, Premier Christy Clark, and Canada’s Minister of State Maxime Bernier.

It is anticipated the new service will bring up to 40,000 Chinese travellers to Vancouver annually and that they will spend up to $72 million in Canada.

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Possibly when they start taking delivery of their new 787s

Highly unlikely. The combination of high landing fees in KIX and stagnant economic growth in Japan (plus the impact of the earthquake/tsunami in Fukushima) means AC won't be adding capacity to Japan anytime soon.

Actually, I believe KIX landing fees are quite a bit lower than competing airports and have been for a few years now.

[deasine]

I'm not sure AC would venture into CAN as a destination within the short term. The demand is only just starting to grow right now.

Keep in mind, almost all international destinations AC flies to are airports that allow for seemless connections for its passengers. CAN is only CZ's base, it is not Star Alliance territory, and so there won't be a lot of passengers from AC transferring onto other airlines.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Actually, I believe KIX landing fees are quite a bit lower than competing airports and have been for a few years now.

A quick check online and you're right -- KIX indeed has been offering deep discounts on landing fees . Don't know if that's enough to bring AC back, though. One can hope...!

[metroXpress]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

is AirBC still around? its been so long since i flew within BC

Merged with a few other regional ones in different provinces to become Jazz, which is Air Canada Express now.

[SpongeG]

ah i always wondered

seems like air canada is back to work, well ordered back to work

[deasine]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

seems like air canada is back to work, well ordered back to work

Ordered back to work? Not necessarily so. While the Federal Government voted for implementing "back-to-work legislation," this was a tentative deal made by the union and the management executives. It's debatable whether or not the Federal Government's actions may have led the union signing on the deal though.

Air Canada and union reach tentative deal

TORONTO - A tentative collective agreement ending a strike by Air Canada front counter staff includes wage increases, but it will be up to an arbitrator to settle a contentious dispute over pension plans for new hires.

Canadian Auto Workers union president Ken Lewenza said the tentative deal includes higher wages and addresses quality of life and other issues raised by workers.

But he said the agreement does not settle the issue of defined benefit pensions - the major stumbling block in the negotiations.

Lewenza said the union agreed to send the pension issue to an arbitrator in order to minimize the strain on the 3,800 workers who were on strike.

"For us to prolong the strike as a result of future hirees would absolutely make no sense at this time but it will give us an opportunity in future years to bargain on behalf of those new hires," Lewenza told a news conference shortly after the union announced that a deal had been reached.

The tentative agreement means customer service agents and other staff who walked off the job Tuesday will return to work Friday.

The main sticking point in the dispute was over pension plans, with Air Canada wanting to put new hires on a defined contribution plan versus a defined benefit pension.

Defined benefit plans provide retirees with a predictable income, but they expose employers to additional costs if their pension funds doesn't have enough money to pay promised benefits.

With defined contribution plans, the company's contribution is limited to a set, negotiated amount and payouts to retirees depend on the performance of the underlying investments. It normally costs the company less money.

"Do I feel good about passing on a risk to new generations of workers that deserve our representation today? The answer is, I'm not happy about that," Lewenza said. "But at the end of the day bargaining is tough and you have to make tough decisions."

Lewenza said there would be "very slight modifications" to the current pension plan, which would become effective in 2013. Further details of the deal will not be released until a ratification vote is held in the coming days.

"We are very pleased to have reached a tentative agreement with the CAW," Duncan Dee, executive vice-president and chief operating officer of Air Canada, said in a statement. "The agreement will help ensure the long-term sustainability of Air Canada while maintaining industry-leading compensation and benefits for our employees."

Travellers had seen minor delays but no major disruptions since the strike began.

The tentative four-year settlement came less than an hour after the federal government tabled back-to-work legislation that would have forced the striking employees back on the job next week.

The airline is still facing other labour disputes. Pilots rejected a tentative agreement earlier this year that contained new rules permitting Air Canada to establish of a low-cost carrier.

Meanwhile, the Canadian Union of Public Employees - which represents 6,800 Air Canada flight attendants - has asked for a conciliator to assist in its contract talks.

Mechanics will be back at the bargaining table with Air Canada in July, said Dave Ritchie with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

But his union won't bargain any differently with the airline because Ottawa threatened the CAW with the back-to-work bill and potentially could do the same with them.

"We can't let intimidation come into the bargaining session," said Ritchie.

National Bank Financial analyst Cameron Doerksen said Thursday's deal sets a benchmark for Air Canada's other unions to come to an agreement sooner.

"With one agreement now in place ... we believe the tone has been set for better progress towards reaching new contracts with all of the unions," he wrote in a research note.

Labour Minister Lisa Raitt said the government intervention gave both sides the final push needed to reach a deal.

"We're very pleased with how it unfolded and I know that putting the legislation on the order paper ... was a tool that was needed in order to focus the parties and narrow the issues," she told reporters.

But Lewenza railed against the government's move to announce back-to-work legislation within 24 hours of the strike, even though Air Canada said there had been no significant decline in business.

The federal opposition argued there was no emergency requiring swift action and the government should have never tabled legislation.

NDP leader Jack Layton said government legislation was biased towards the employer, and Liberal leader Bob Rae accused Ottawa of interfering with the union's ability to defend pensions.

Earlier, Raitt said the country's economy would have been damaged by a prolonged strike. She said major disruptions would likely occur next week if workers did not return.

She denied the government was setting a precedent by intervening in the strike so quickly after it began and so soon after winning a majority election.

"When there's going to be a prolonged work stoppage that is going to effect the Canadian economy, and that's going to impact on Canadians, the government is going to give their intention on how we're going to react," she said.

Raitt said the decision would have been the same even in a minority government.

With files from Julian Beltrame and Pat Hewitt

© Copyright (c) Shaw Media Inc.

(Global TV BC 2011)

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

A quick check online and you're right -- KIX indeed has been offering deep discounts on landing fees . Don't know if that's enough to bring AC back, though. One can hope...!

Hard to say. Many people feel it was too little, too late. I think the feeling was that they wanted to turn KIX into what ICN in Korea is... a major Asian hub.

However:

Osaka's old airport is far more centrally located (it WAS supposed to be demolished in favor of the new one)

Kobe airport was built soon afterwards.
Nagoya's new airport was built.
Shizuoka's new airport was built.
Haneda airport was expanded (clearly putting the focus on Haneda to become Japan's answer to PVG and ICN)

The economy is still down, and I think Japan wanted to built their way out of the recession.

KIX was, until recently, run separately from the other regional airports (And thus, being saddled with debt, found it hard to compete). Initially it was supposed to be closer to Kobe which would have made it more centrally located.

I think they could really take a page from Vancouver, in privatizing the company that's running it. They've taken steps in consolidating management of KIX, Itami and Kobe's airports, but who knows if they'll be able to make KIX live up to it's reputation.

One thing is clear though about that airport, it is stunningly beautiful, both inside and out. It makes YVR (and most airports) feel claustrophobic, if you can believe that. Whenever I fly to Osaka I try to get the connecting flight that goes to KIX. Most go to Itami.

[SpongeG]

a CBC news chat program mentioned that the strike was or could have affected air canada and its star alliance situation and maybe thats why they went back to work so soon too

[Johnny Aussie]

Further to China Southern's new service to YVR. Interesting.....

It looks like the CTA granted their license one day before the first scheduled flight! Also shows why they had originally loaded their flights into GDS and then subsequently removed them. This led to speculation the route was being cancelled. This all makes sense now. Hopefully this is all behind them now and the new service will flourish and eventually become daily! This airline is really expanding its Australian services as well.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ruling/drv.php?id=30871&lang=eng

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Further to China Southern's new service to YVR. Interesting.....

It looks like the CTA granted their license one day before the first scheduled flight! Also shows why they had originally loaded their flights into GDS and then subsequently removed them. This led to speculation the route was being cancelled. This all makes sense now. Hopefully this is all behind them now and the new service will flourish and eventually become daily! This airline is really expanding its Australian services as well.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ruling/drv.php?id=30871&lang=eng

Last minute indeed. Wonder what the loads are like, especially for the inaugural flight. I wouldn't even know where to book fares for them, aside from their own site which I imagine wouldn't give the lowest prices.

[Hourglass]

It was claimed that the inaugural flights were fully booked. Don't know what future bookings look like, but with the feed into their Guangzhou hub, I think China Southern should do quite well. It's probably highly unlikely, but it would be cool to see one of their A380s at YVR...

Re the additional flights, it seems the 4x weekly flights to Shanghai will be cargo flights -- something the Vancouver Sun article alluded to about boosting BC's export market.

[trofirhen]

... Does anyone know if we'll ever get SQL back? If not, will we ever again see a routing to Singapore, whatever be the airline? It seems to me that, from YVR, Singapore would be a good transit point to other Asian or African destinations, or am I wrong?

Wouldn't a nonstop there be unreal?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

... Does anyone know if we'll ever get SQL back? If not, will we ever again see a routing to Singapore, whatever be the airline? It seems to me that, from YVR, Singapore would be a good transit point to other Asian or African destinations, or am I wrong?

Wouldn't a nonstop there be unreal?

SQL - are you talking about San Carlos? I never knew YVR flew there!

With regards to SIN, SQ pulled the YVR-ICN-SIN route supposedly due to the economic recession, but I think another part of the reason was because SQ could only fly 3 times to YVR and wanted more (reminiscent of the current Emirates/Qatar/Etihad situation?). SQ also flew to YYZ previously, but was shut out after complaints from AC. It's sort of funny how AC and SQ are part of the same alliance, but both really have little cooperation between one another.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

a CBC news chat program mentioned that the strike was or could have affected air canada and its star alliance situation and maybe thats why they went back to work so soon too

I'm not sure how that makes sense. As much as it affects ACs operation, there is no way *A would ever evict AC, especially being a founding member of the alliance. They might apply some pressure to have management to get the union back to work, but that's all they can do.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

One thing is clear though about that airport, it is stunningly beautiful, both inside and out. It makes YVR (and most airports) feel claustrophobic, if you can believe that. Whenever I fly to Osaka I try to get the connecting flight that goes to KIX. Most go to Itami.

That's the thing. YVR really isn't "beautiful" architecturally. It's the elements that YVR put in the airport what makes it beautiful.

With KIX being much cheaper to land, I wonder if AC could capitalize on this, get fifth freedom landing rights in Japan, and then also fly to another destination. DEL is YVR's largest market without a "direct flight." A direct flight to DEL could potentially take a lot of passengers off competing other airlines, including BA, CI, and CX.

[Hot Rod]

and 777-300ER could do the job too.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

One thing is clear though about that airport, it is stunningly beautiful, both inside and out. It makes YVR (and most airports) feel claustrophobic, if you can believe that. Whenever I fly to Osaka I try to get the connecting flight that goes to KIX. Most go to Itami.

Yeah, I like KIX. I find other Asian hubs such as HKG, SIN and ICN more user (or maybe transit?) friendly, but there is no denying Renzo Piano's design is very cool indeed.

Funnily enough, on the subject of airport fees at KIX, Asahi Shimbun had an article a couple of days ago mentioning the fact that ANA is setting up their own budget carrier to be based in Osaka. One of the issues that still came up was the issue of landing fees, which were still higher than Narita, although Osaka has put together a strategy to attract low-cost carriers. The article can be found here

Originally Posted by deasine

With KIX being much cheaper to land, I wonder if AC could capitalize on this, get fifth freedom landing rights in Japan, and then also fly to another destination. DEL is YVR's largest market without a "direct flight." A direct flight to DEL could potentially take a lot of passengers off competing other airlines, including BA, CI, and CX.

It'd be great if Air Canada launched fifth-freedom flights from YVR via Japan to DEL, but right now they seem happy to let their Delhi traffic transfer in Frankfurt and take Lufthansa onwards. I would agree that a lot of traffic goes via other airlines as well. As a small aside relating back to trofirhen's post, this was one of the reasons used by Transport Canada in denying SQ additional flights from Singapore via ICN. It's ok for Asiana, Korean, Cathay and others to fly people to Delhi via third-party hubs, but not so kosher when SQ does it...

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by deasine

SQL - are you talking about San Carlos? I never knew YVR flew there!

With regards to SIN, SQ pulled the YVR-ICN-SIN route supposedly due to the economic recession, but I think another part of the reason was because SQ could only fly 3 times to YVR and wanted more (reminiscent of the current Emirates/Qatar/Etihad situation?). SQ also flew to YYZ previously, but was shut out after complaints from AC. It's sort of funny how AC and SQ are part of the same alliance, but both really have little cooperation between one another.



I'm not sure how that makes sense. As much as it affects ACs operation, there is no way *A would ever evict AC, especially being a founding member of the alliance. They might apply some pressure to have management to get the union back to work, but that's all they can do.

the commentators were speculating but they were saying the other star alliance members would have to deal with the extra passenger loads or something like that and they didn't want to burden them with that