Downtown Vancouver Updates

[dreambrother808]

The riots sucked but some people seem to be a little obsessed with the matter. We don't need a hundredth post about how much people should be punished or how bad this makes us look or whatever other negative train of thought you can't stop feeding on. If you've already had your say, why do you feel the need to repeat it over and over again? Isn't it time to move on to some degree?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The riots sucked but some people seem to be a little obsessed with the matter. We don't need a hundredth post about how much people should be punished or how bad this makes us look or whatever other negative train of thought you can't stop feeding on. If you've already had your say, why do you feel the need to repeat it over and over again? Isn't it time to move on to some degree?

I agree with you totally. Enough has been said and done on the matter that it has become stale. Definitely time to address other topics.

[jlousa]

I disagree, the event hasn't been overblown at all. This event has changed Vancouver, so much so that some current projects are now being reexamined in order to deal with the potential of future riots. I hope we do not end up with metal shutters over windows but right now that is a very real and unfortunate possiblity.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I disagree, the event hasn't been overblown at all. This event has changed Vancouver, so much so that some current projects are now being reexamined in order to deal with the potential of future riots. I hope we do not end up with metal shutters over windows but right now that is a very real and unfortunate possiblity.

Yes, sir, I have to admit that there is work still to be done for the security of future events. Also, if there is any silver lining in this dark cloud, I think it was the strong sense of community co-operation (as evidenced in the following day clean-up, with all the volunteers coming downtown to pitch in) This seemed to be accompanied by an attitude of "NEVER AGAIN!"
However, the "Downtown Vancouver Updates" thread itself has been loaded to the hilt - understandably - since it happened, and I think what dreambrother808 simply meant was that this particular thread could use a change of theme. Perhaps a new thread dealing with crime and security might be in order, unless people are content to mentally associate "Downtown Vancouver Updates" with future riot and violent crime protection on a long-term basis. That's all that was meant, I think.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I disagree, the event hasn't been overblown at all. This event has changed Vancouver, so much so that some current projects are now being reexamined in order to deal with the potential of future riots. I hope we do not end up with metal shutters over windows but right now that is a very real and unfortunate possiblity.

You're right, I don't think people understand the gravity of the situation. We spent billions of dollars getting this city ready for the Olympics, and branded ourselves internationally as an amazing city, with friendly inhabitants, that has matured over its ruff and tumble past frontier image and that people should come visit. And it worked, for 2 weeks we were the media darling and the future for this city was bright and spectacular. Tens of thousands of people came out and volunteered, and we spent years building infrastructure and facilities.

All that work was undone last week in 5 hours. We are back to being a joke of a fishing village that gets in drunken fistfights over hockey.

The only reason it might not be as bad as it could have been was because a congressman that cybersexed and sent out pictures of his 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 resigned the day after, otherwise WE would have been the talk of 24 hour news the entire day and the leading story on every evening news broadcast. The headlines could have been "Only in Canada; What's that aboot, eh?" but were instead "Pervert Resigns". If there is one thing Americans like more than making Canada jokes, its making pervert jokes.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I disagree, the event hasn't been overblown at all. This event has changed Vancouver, so much so that some current projects are now being reexamined in order to deal with the potential of future riots. I hope we do not end up with metal shutters over windows but right now that is a very real and unfortunate possiblity.

I'd hate to see that in Vancouver. It's so ugly.

[osirisboy]

I really dont think the riot discussion should be in the downtown updates thread. Isnt there a discussion on the riot already in the canucks thread as well as one or two others?

Can we keep this thread dedicated to downtown projects.

[Metro-One]

I was in Europe when the riots happened, just got back yesterday, and no one really seemed to care.

In fact the most common comment i got was "that is nothing compared to a good old soccer riot"

People really do not care as much as we think on here.

And we are by far not the first city to have a sports riot.

Many of the world class cities in Europe have had riots over similar stupid reasons.

And PS, all the "world class cities" I have been in in Europe and Asia have metal shutters over their windows downtown, etc...

While I also hate the look of them, I find it funny how people here seem to think that in order to be a world class city you can not have such items, when to my experiences, it seems to be quite the contrary.

[jlousa]

Gastown is having a music festival tonight come on down. Gastown has worked really hard at improving itself over the last decade and has encouraged businesses to remove bars/shutters from their windows, the effect has been a much more welcoming environment and it shows.
It's a shame to see them potentially introduced in another part of town due to insurance companies demanding insane deductibles for businesses w/o them.
Unfortunately security glass is way too expensive leaving shutters as the likely solution for most small businesses.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I was in Europe when the riots happened, just got back yesterday, and no one really seemed to care.

In fact the most common comment i got was "that is nothing compared to a good old soccer riot"

People really do not care as much as we think on here.

And we are by far not the first city to have a sports riot.

Many of the world class cities in Europe have had riots over similar stupid reasons.

And PS, all the "world class cities" I have been in in Europe and Asia have metal shutters over their windows downtown, etc...

While I also hate the look of them, I find it funny how people here seem to think that in order to be a world class city you can not have such items, when to my experiences, it seems to be quite the contrary.

^ Gotta agree. The world will forget soon enough, but the obvious thing is we won't -- at least, not anytime soon.

IMO, it's not our reputation around the world that is at stake but rather it's who we see in the mirror. What's important right now is how we see ourselves as city and as a society.

We really lack self-confidence and esteem right now. It's quite the opposite to how we've been feeling for much of the past year, when we were just full of ourselves: we were far too overconfident and self-satisfied for our own good.

I think it's safe to say that this place will explode if something remotely worst were to happen...anyone remember those fights for bottled water at stores some years back when there was a landslide at one of our reservoirs?

We certainly aren't the resilient type: see Japan.

[SpikePhanta]

metal shutters were the reason why Future shop on Robson didn't get robbed.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I was in Europe when the riots happened, just got back yesterday, and no one really seemed to care.

In fact the most common comment i got was "that is nothing compared to a good old soccer riot"

People really do not care as much as we think on here.

And we are by far not the first city to have a sports riot.

Many of the world class cities in Europe have had riots over similar stupid reasons.

And PS, all the "world class cities" I have been in in Europe and Asia have metal shutters over their windows downtown, etc...

While I also hate the look of them, I find it funny how people here seem to think that in order to be a world class city you can not have such items, when to my experiences, it seems to be quite the contrary.

the metal shutters have a purpose - from friends/people i have met who have moved here from asia or europe etc all like that vancouver is so free and they don't feel unsafe here and not seeing something like the metal doors is something we don't even think of - they see it as a freedom and a lack of crime and a reason why they moved here to canada

it has nothing to do with "world class city"

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

^
I doubt it. Just like '94 it stings for a while but ultimately fades into the dark annals of Vancouver history.

I agree. This stung a bit more, as I thought the live sites would work out, but they didn't. The next cup run will be different, i don't know how, but this too, shall pass.

Rioting occurred in Barcelona after they won the champions cup this year, and in 2009. not sure if they are worried about being less 'world class' or not.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si641o4iUJY

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the metal shutters have a purpose - from friends/people i have met who have moved here from asia or europe etc all like that vancouver is so free and they don't feel unsafe here and not seeing something like the metal doors is something we don't even think of - they see it as a freedom and a lack of crime and a reason why they moved here to canada

it has nothing to do with "world class city"

I think you are completely missing the point of what I was saying, i was commenting on all those here who are saying Vancouver will never become a world class city with such features and our riot, I was simply showing that such thinking is complete bull, because most world class cities do have these features, and it has not stopped / ruined them.

[SpikePhanta]

People sprayed graffiti over the comments on the boards on the bay.

[Metro-One]

that comes as no surprise, the graffiti problem in vancouver has been getting steadily worse over the last few years, starting to become quite an eyesore and very embarrassing as one rides skytrain.

Again is comes down to selfish punks who have no sense of responsibility / community and believe everything is owed to them and they can do whatever they feel.

[Sprawl]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

You're right, I don't think people understand the gravity of the situation. We spent billions of dollars getting this city ready for the Olympics, and branded ourselves internationally as an amazing city, with friendly inhabitants, that has matured over its ruff and tumble past frontier image and that people should come visit. And it worked, for 2 weeks we were the media darling and the future for this city was bright and spectacular. Tens of thousands of people came out and volunteered, and we spent years building infrastructure and facilities.

All that work was undone last week in 5 hours. We are back to being a joke of a fishing village that gets in drunken fistfights over hockey.

As someone currently living overseas, I'd say that's completely inaccurate. I'm not trying to be patronising here but Vancouver really isn't that important, and nor are sports riots. In the Asian news outlets I'm involved with, there was very little coverage of the event, and most of it was dedicated to that kissing couple. Saying Vancouver's image has been destroyed is nothing but inaccurate hyperbole, I'd say it's a stretch to even call it damaged. There's been a million sports riots all over Europe and South America, and even a few in American cities. Their citizens are not proud of them, but they don't carry on about them like they're a defining factor of their city.

As I've said before, I was shocked by the riot and the behaviour of the people involved. However, I find the reaction of those not involved baffling. I've seen people take to the internet en masse to talk about how ashamed they are, how embarrassed they are, how this event has annihilated Vancouver's international reputation. It's a completely unnecessary reaction that I'm at a loss to explain. A thirst for drama and controversy in a relatively quiet city? Some kind of civic masochism? I think that strange behaviour, combined with thousands of opinion pieces about "Vancouver's seedy underbelly waiting to come out" and "A city changed forever" by random columnists from Calgary and Toronto who have no idea what they're talking about, has led to the importance of this event being well overblown.

Issues like crowd control and property protection measures will obviously need to be addressed, but that's a completely separate issue. Don't confuse civic and provincial responses with the international community's. They've already moved on and forgotten.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Gastown is having a music festival tonight come on down. Gastown has worked really hard at improving itself over the last decade and has encouraged businesses to remove bars/shutters from their windows, the effect has been a much more welcoming environment and it shows.
It's a shame to see them potentially introduced in another part of town due to insurance companies demanding insane deductibles for businesses w/o them.
Unfortunately security glass is way too expensive leaving shutters as the likely solution for most small businesses.

My wife and I were down there by chance, I was very impressed. Gastown is finally starting to look better. Lots of new restaurants, all busy on a night like last night. Perfect weather for it too of course.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, but I thought we liked to call ourselves the best place on earth, not the most bellow average place on earth.

If we want to think of ourselves as one of the most livable cities in the world shouldn't the people here be expected to rise above the lowest common denominator in other cities. Also, other cities have had riots over issues that mattered, like people's rights and freedoms, but here we riot over a sporting event.

Sure, riots happen elsewhere, but I would like to think Vancouver is a better city than say, Manchester. That's the black eye we got, we aren't a great city, we are an average city in the eyes of the world.

It's like saying other husbands beat their wives, so if I beat mine it just means I'm common and normal instead of criminal and a tragedy; "hey, it happens".

I was born and raised in Manchester, UK so yes, definatley much, much better here. I think, though, that you are holding out the place, or at least the ideal of it, to be some sort of utopia. There are many things right with the place and more than a few wrong. Most Livable City? well that's always a matter of perspective and personal opinion. The riot is just one more thing to remind us and the world to not buy in to the hype...

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by Sprawl

Don't confuse civic and provincial responses with the international community's. They've already moved on and forgotten.

Well ya, the world has also forgotten about the Haiti earthquake, Australian Fires and Floods, Japan disaster and many more.

But we live here and have to deal with it. Apparently there is a lot of seething anger under this glass facade.