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  #8781  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 3:31 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
The area that map shows as being downtown has been officially considered that for a long time. For probably more than 100 years.
... I know, and I disagree with the city designating it as such.


As for your other points, I totally agree with everything above the quote box. The factual stuff both above and below the quote box is widely known.
     
     
  #8782  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 4:40 AM
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what's so ambitious about it?
     
     
  #8783  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 8:49 AM
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what's so ambitious about it?
I'm not exactly sure...
     
     
  #8784  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 8:54 AM
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I'm not exactly sure...
Politically it is very ambitious. The NIMBY crowd is going to hate it.
     
     
  #8785  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 9:53 AM
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There's a major difference between the neighborhoods abutting campus and the neighborhoods elsewhere: those in the former group have a natural base of population to draw their residents from (the University as a revolving door), those in the latter do not. In fact, those in the latter almost certainly have other areas competing (and beating) them for our prospective urban population (Downtown). You also have the problem of neighborhood opposition... It is, politically, much easier (though still not easy by any reasonable metric) to compromise with the NIMBYs than to simply override them. Those NIMBYs only exist in the neighborhoods away from UT. There really isn't much opposition to development in West Campus and North Campus (primarily because of that revolving door phenomenon).

There are also a litany of problems associated with allowing high density development within the interior of cohesive neighborhoods: desirable incoming transplants choose to locate elsewhere due to curb appeal issues, desirable current residents move away for similar reasons, density is spread too thin to be effective from a walkability/bikeability standpoint and hence loses its desirability from the standpoint of those who prefer urban living, and the fact that the density is only moderate also impairs the cost effectiveness of mass transit which then precludes expansions of the system.

Allowing high density only along predetermined corridors fixes all these problems: development is centered and focused so that walkability/bikeability/mass transit is maximized, the interior cohesiveness is largely maintained and hence stays similarly vibrant as it is today. The main problem with our interior neighborhoods is not that they aren't desirable (cities like San Antonio, St. Louis, Kansas City, etc. have those problems, we thankfully do not), it is that the schools are not attended at the rates for which they were built. Allowing development along the corridors fixes the problem in the same way that allowing it within the neighborhoods does, except without the negative effects.

Perhaps, in 25-50 years down the line when we are nearing the point at which VMU development along the major corridors is no longer possible because of build-out, it might be worth considering allowing denser development within some nodes inside the neighborhoods themselves. At that point, though, there will still be more desirable places to locate density: Brackenridge, historic downtowns of Round Rock and Elgin, Domain, Camp Mabry (if, at some point, it is shut down through realignment), etc.
Great comments, thank you.

I would also like to suggest that the age, lifestyles, and expected residence time frame of many of those who live in West Campus is not typical of the rest of the Austin population. To replicate that sort of density in other neighborhoods would come with much higher expectations. I agree with you that this is best done on or adjacent to already strong corridors rather than in neighborhoods that already have a strong identity and appeal to people.
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  #8786  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 11:23 AM
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I know that neighborhood groups are stakeholders, but I disagree that they should be deciding the essential character of those neighborhoods. It is the right of all Austinites to decide the character of their city, and those neighborhoods are part of the city. Neighborhoods are not governmental jurisdictions. You don't own a whole area any more than anybody else just because you have property there. You're a stakeholder there, but you shouldn't confuse that with ownership. The character of many of these neighborhoods needs to be radically changed, not preserved. It was a mistake to build neighborhoods of those characters in the first place.

I don't understand the obsession with corridors. Corridors don't inhibit walkability. And they don't compliment transit. Grid-based density does. Corridors just promote sprawl and car-centricity. If people move out of neighborhoods because of curb-appeal issues in relation to denser development then they are not desirable residents. They are NIMBYs who are roadblocks to this city's needed progress and champions of stagnation. I can understand that they would have the mindset of "I got mine" in relation to wanting to keep things the same where they live, but many Austinite don't "got theirs", and they should.

Density should be everywhere. Calling something "downtown" or "in the urban core" is just semantics. There should be just as much high rise construction east of 35 as there is west of it, IMO. We have to stop treating suburbs like neighborhoods and start treating them like individual houses, like on Rainey Street. Times have changed. There's no reason for single-family homes existing within that proximity to historic downtown. I know these people like living there, but that real estate is in way too high demand. All the space above their heads is possible living space and many Austinites want to live in a more central location. Notice, they don't just want to live in or near an urban location. They want to live in a central location.
     
     
  #8787  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
I know that neighborhood groups are stakeholders, but I disagree that they should be deciding the essential character of those neighborhoods. It is the right of all Austinites to decide the character of their city, and those neighborhoods are part of the city. Neighborhoods are not governmental jurisdictions. You don't own a whole area any more than anybody else just because you have property there. You're a stakeholder there, but you shouldn't confuse that with ownership. The character of many of these neighborhoods needs to be radically changed, not preserved. It was a mistake to build neighborhoods of those characters in the first place.
It is exactly because they are stakeholders that they should be deciding the character of their neighborhoods. We should have a variety of neighborhoods all with their own charm, not some monolithic block of semi-urban trash. In Austin, neighborhoods are given tremendous say in their future.

Why should these neighborhoods be radically changed? Why was it a mistake to build them that way in the first place? You don't give me an argument. You simply state it as fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
I don't understand the obsession with corridors. Corridors don't inhibit walkability. And they don't compliment transit. Grid-based density does. Corridors just promote sprawl and car-centricity. If people move out of neighborhoods because of curb-appeal issues in relation to denser development then they are not desirable residents. They are NIMBYs who are roadblocks to this city's needed progress and champions of stagnation. I can understand that they would have the mindset of "I got mine" in relation to wanting to keep things the same where they live, but many Austinite don't "got theirs", and they should.
Corridors don't inhibit walkability, you're right. I never said that. They do complement transit simply because corridors are where the buses travel en masse and where any future urban rail will be located.

They live there, get over it. The fact that they are typically wealthy is exactly why they are desirable as residents. They pay more in taxes. They basically fund everything that the city does. Want density? Thank them.


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Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
Density should be everywhere. Calling something "downtown" or "in the urban core" is just semantics. There should be just as much high rise construction east of 35 as there is west of it, IMO. We have to stop treating suburbs like neighborhoods and start treating them like individual houses, like on Rainey Street. Times have changed. There's no reason for single-family homes existing within that proximity to historic downtown. I know these people like living there, but that real estate is in way too high demand. All the space above their heads is possible living space and many Austinites want to live in a more central location. Notice, they don't just want to live in or near an urban location. They want to live in a central location.
Did I ever say that there shouldn't be mid-to-high rise development east of 35? I just believe that such development should be focused on corridors so as to save the character of neighborhoods and so that we don't have urban sprawl. Urban sprawl is basically when you have high-rises nowhere near public transit so those people still have cars that they use regularly to drive to downtown (or elsewhere) for work.

I'm fine with, like I said, in 25-50 years to revisit the issue and promote density within the neighborhoods after the corridors have been built out. The problem is that there really isn't enough demand for density at the moment for us to develop more than just the corridors. It really seems like you are overestimating both that demand and the general population of Austin.

Last edited by wwmiv; Apr 27, 2011 at 11:18 PM.
     
     
  #8788  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2011, 2:51 AM
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This is mostly looking at height restrictions for certain areas of downtown.

http://impactnews.com/central-austin/293...stin-plan-moves-through-community-review
Quote:
Downtown Austin Plan moves through community

By Bobby Longoria

Wednesday, 27 April 2011

CENTRAL AUSTIN — The three-year process of finalizing the city’s Downtown Austin Plan is nearing its end. The Planning Commission endorsed the plan April 26, after several hours of public discussion, in which concerns were raised about zoning changes and building requirements.

Although community members and stakeholders have generally welcomed the plan, it has also seen its share of resistance.

The plan looks at downtown as nine separate districts including the core/waterfront district, the Rainey Street District, the Waller Creek District and several others. It also covers seven topic areas such as historic preservation, land development code, design, transportation and infrastructure.

With more than 100 recommendations, the Downtown Austin Plan proposes a total investment of about $250 million to $300 million over the next 10 years.
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  #8789  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2011, 6:43 AM
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I'm wondering if/how the IBM smarter city program is involved with this?
https://smartercitieschallenge.org/executive_reports/SmarterCities-Austin.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
This is mostly looking at height restrictions for certain areas of downtown.

http://impactnews.com/central-austin/293...stin-plan-moves-through-community-review
     
     
  #8790  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 6:22 AM
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Looks like this project is coming back to life (warning: clicking the embedded link will prompt a .pdf download).

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/print-...ac-in-east-austin-to-be-transformed.html
Quote:
70 acres in East Austin to be Transformed
Austin Business Journal
Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 5:00am

The Lakeshore and South Shore planned unit developments, which will transform about 70 acres along the south shore of Lady Bird Lake east of I-35, are roaring back to life.

After three years of inactivity backers of the Lakeshore PUD, to be developed by Austin-based Cypress Real Estate Advisor Inc., filed plans in mid-April for an estimated $30 million of planned infrastructure and apartments, the first phase of a multiphase buildout at the 50-acre site.

The South Shore PUD, approved by city leaders in 2009, plans to start demolishing hundreds of existing apartments and installing infrastructure this summer, said developer
     
     
  #8791  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 7:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Looks like this project is coming back to life (warning: clicking the embedded link will prompt a .pdf download).

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/print-...ac-in-east-austin-to-be-transformed.html
Is this right behind the AMLI on Riverside the one right next to Baby Acapulco?
     
     
  #8792  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 7:38 AM
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Is this right behind the AMLI on Riverside the one right next to Baby Acapulco?
Yes, right next to AMLI South Shore.
     
     
  #8793  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Syndic View Post
The character of many of these neighborhoods needs to be radically changed, not preserved. It was a mistake to build neighborhoods of those characters in the first place.
The character and nature of a neighborhood should be organic, not imposed with a strong hand from the city. A lot of the "central" neighborhoods have a character that I like a good deal being a resident of one of them, and I'm sure the residents of other areas are pretty happy too.

Downtown is still covered in surface parking lots and low rise buildings that are prime for more density. It's not as though there is a massive shortage of areas in which to build denser walkable neighborhoods or whatever it is you are calling for.
     
     
  #8794  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Looks like this project is coming back to life (warning: clicking the embedded link will prompt a .pdf download).

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/print-...ac-in-east-austin-to-be-transformed.html
Very exciting in principle, however I'm concerned about the prospects of leveling a very large area of existing buildings, only to see the developers unable to actually put the new buildings up. They've already done this on another tract of land in the area, and now you have nothing where hundreds and hundreds of apartments used to stand. Hopefully they won't start demo unless financing is lined up.

I'd really hate to see this happen again...

Last edited by Somnio; May 1, 2011 at 7:15 PM.
     
     
  #8795  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
The character and nature of a neighborhood should be organic, not imposed with a strong hand from the city. A lot of the "central" neighborhoods have a character that I like a good deal being a resident of one of them, and I'm sure the residents of other areas are pretty happy too.

Downtown is still covered in surface parking lots and low rise buildings that are prime for more density. It's not as though there is a massive shortage of areas in which to build denser walkable neighborhoods or whatever it is you are calling for.
Changing zoning to allow more density is not imposing anything with a strong hand.

Also, not everyone who wants to live in a central part of town want to live downtown, or can afford downtown for that matter.

Downtown real estate is very expensive, as is the cost of building high rises. The cost of building a relatively small (4 stories or so) apartment or condo building on Kinney Ave. in 78704 is much less expensive than even a comparably sized building downtown. And we know many on here would be complaining about the absurdity of constructing a building of that size in downtown. Just look at the reaction that the proposal for the twenty story apartment building received from the members here on SSP.
     
     
  #8796  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 10:50 PM
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Very exciting in principle, however I'm concerned about the prospects of leveling a very large area of existing buildings, only to see the developers unable to actually put the new buildings up. They've already done this on another tract of land in the area, and now you have nothing where hundreds and hundreds of apartments used to stand. Hopefully they won't start demo unless financing is lined up.

I'd really hate to see this happen again...
That is part of the site referenced in the article.
     
     
  #8797  
Old Posted May 1, 2011, 11:56 PM
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That is part of the site referenced in the article.
Nope, although I wish it were the case. The tract of land I'm talking about is just east of the project you're talking about.

You can actually see the remains of the apartments in this image from that PDF, and it's not part of their project unfortunately. That means even more affordable apartments leveled to make room for this new development, which I'm fine with, assuming they actually move forward after demolition.

     
     
  #8798  
Old Posted May 2, 2011, 12:03 AM
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Nope, although I wish it were the case. The tract of land I'm talking about is just east of the project you're talking about.

You can actually see the remains of the apartments in this image from that PDF, and it's not part of their project unfortunately. That means even more affordable apartments leveled to make room for this new development, which I'm fine with, assuming they actually move forward after demolition.

Ah. You're right. Perhaps that project will come back to life soon as well.
     
     
  #8799  
Old Posted May 2, 2011, 12:16 AM
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Here's what's at the location in question now. It may not be much to look at, but it's certainly better than being leveled and replace by nothing. If that happens, along with the tract just east being leveled, that would be a real shame. First and foremost because so many people being displaced, and secondly you'd be dealing with a very large area of blight.
     
     
  #8800  
Old Posted May 2, 2011, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Downtown Austin Hyatt breaking ground in Q3
Austin Business Journal
Date: Monday, May 2, 2011, 1:06pm CDT

Developers will break ground this year on a 14-story, 296-room Hyatt Place in downtown Austin.

....
http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2011/05/02/downtown-austin-hyatt-breaking-ground.html
     
     
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