Port Mann/Highway 1 Improvements | Completed - Page 107

BCPhil · #**2121** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 9:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by awvan

Think of the voles and water schrews! Won't somebody please think of the voles and water schrews?!

Sorry, that article made me laugh out loud. I like how her map labeled the Hwy 1 expansion and SFPR as "proposed" and how the ALR completely covered all of the Tsawwassen Native Band's lands (which will definitely NOT be agricultural). Industrial land values skyrocketed when a brand new truck route was announced, well, duh! Not to mention all land pretty much skyrocketed in the period 2000-2008 everywhere in Vancouver, regardless of use. I really don't see how this article is important at all. Half of what she mentioned is already in the past or a foregone conclusion, what does she expect to happen? Also, expansion of the port at Roberts Bank makes a hell of a lot more sense (and is much better for the environment) than routing more train and truck traffic through the city to Burrard Inlet.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised though, it is the Straight.

Yeah, imagine that, they build a new road and land prices go up. And some of the ALR land along the Fraser is "unused" and would be put to better use as industrial instead of growing some weeds. A lot of that land seems to be perfect for hot houses (judging by the vast number of them). It might increase utility and productivity if some of the land owners were able to sell of small portions of their property to raise capital to build more green houses.

Plus throughout the article she mentions other alternatives, without ever mentioning what one of them is. Not even close to hinting at an alternative. If you can't even come up with the alternatives, let alone defend yourself from possible counterpoints, it's not very convincing.

logan5 · #**2122** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 11:46 AM**

http://www.metrovancouver.org/planning/d...eDocs/AgricultureBackgrounderMarch09.pdf

When you subtract the 400 square miles of mountain range, Metro Vancouver in reality is about 700 square miles. At 230 square miles, the ALR pretty much covers any undeveloped land in Metro Vancouver. So we have no choice but to sacrifice ALR land in order to expand our economy.

How in the world can we have a farming industry in the middle of a thriving metropolis anyways?

Millennium2002 · #**2123** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 3:43 PM**

Some of the comments make me worry a bit... that there'll be more suburb expansion and along with that a growing call for better transit + wider roads to places that can ill afford it atm. =S One only has to look at places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, etc to see what we could end up in terms of urban planning without the ALR. Not very pretty in my eyes. =S

trofirhen · #**2124** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Some of the comments make me worry a bit... that there'll be more suburb expansion and along with that a growing call for better transit + wider roads to places that can ill afford it atm. =S One only has to look at places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, etc to see what we could end up in terms of urban planning without the ALR. Not very pretty in my eyes. =S

Precisely! Agreed 100%

BCPhil · #**2125** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Some of the comments make me worry a bit... that there'll be more suburb expansion and along with that a growing call for better transit + wider roads to places that can ill afford it atm. =S One only has to look at places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, etc to see what we could end up in terms of urban planning without the ALR. Not very pretty in my eyes. =S

I'm not saying do away with the ALR, far from it.

But there is land that is in the ALR that is NOT being used for agriculture. There are ALR properties that are just "ranches" for giant mansions. The owners then get to pay agricultural taxes on their super homes, while the land surrounding it goes to complete waste. Yes, the majority of the ALR is put to good use, but there is still a huge amount of wealth (for farming or other purposes) that is being sat on by wealthy land owners. Either tax them for punishment or let them sell it to help the economy/industry. People with a couple hectares of tax free lawn surrounding their tennis courts doesn't really help anybody.

Plus you have to compare the overall impacts of losing some ALR for a new road to what is happening now. Currently trucks spout copious amounts of carbon into the atmosphere from the stop and go driving they do through Surrey, not to mention the compounding of that problem onto auto traffic, and the lost social productivity that comes from congestion. And trading some ALR land for industrial purposes close to a road built for trucks can clean up other neighborhoods and reduce total carbon emissions.

Millennium2002 · #**2126** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 9:59 PM**

I do agree a bit that there is a bit of hap-hazardness with the current ALR drawn boundaries and that some consolidation and redevelopment may be suitable for those areas and other areas that are being unproductive, but I hope that doesn't lead to a trend of farmers abandoning their lands so they can get good land deals. =S I doubt that's going to be easy to stop once we get the ball rolling on redevelopment. =S

DKaz · #**2127** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 10:18 PM**

As fuel prices continue to soar as well as imported food prices, the ALR will start to make sense. We need to grow our food here. Forward thinking.

If only the same forward thinking applied to our transportation system...

DKaz · #**2128** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 10:39 PM**

It looks paved to me!!

http://archives.earthcam.com/archives5/ecnetwork/ca/bc/burnaby/2011/03/31/1500.jpg

BCPhil · #**2129** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

As fuel prices continue to soar as well as imported food prices, the ALR will start to make sense. We need to grow our food here. Forward thinking.

If only the same forward thinking applied to our transportation system...

By the same token, many of the other goods we import and their distribution will become more expensive, making local manufacturing more economical as well. Space should be reserved on major trucking and transportation routes to make the manufacture and the distribution of goods as efficient as possible. No?

The largest sector of BC farming is Greenhouse farming. I believe in 2004 the Greenhouse vegetable sector was worth about $214 million, off the production in just over 550 acres. Compare it to $90 million off 21,000 harvested acres province wide for field vegetables.

Would it not make sense to allow certain farmers in advantageous locations to sell off unused portions of their land at a premium so that they can raise capital to build more green houses for year-round food production at the same time allowing industry to expand and create more jobs and take advantage of public built infrastructure?

s211 · #**2130** Posted **Mar 31, 2011, 11:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I'm not saying do away with the ALR, far from it.

But there is land that is in the ALR that is NOT being used for agriculture. There are ALR properties that are just "ranches" for giant mansions. The owners then get to pay agricultural taxes on their super homes, while the land surrounding it goes to complete waste. Yes, the majority of the ALR is put to good use, but there is still a huge amount of wealth (for farming or other purposes) that is being sat on by wealthy land owners. Either tax them for punishment or let them sell it to help the economy/industry. People with a couple hectares of tax free lawn surrounding their tennis courts doesn't really help anybody.

Plus you have to compare the overall impacts of losing some ALR for a new road to what is happening now. Currently trucks spout copious amounts of carbon into the atmosphere from the stop and go driving they do through Surrey, not to mention the compounding of that problem onto auto traffic, and the lost social productivity that comes from congestion. And trading some ALR land for industrial purposes close to a road built for trucks can clean up other neighborhoods and reduce total carbon emissions.

I have a buddy with a nice place in the Southlands that's being taxed as agricultural, and he's not growing a single twig, or lassooing a single hoss.

officedweller · #**2131** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 12:06 AM**

Something's happening - webcam today.
Are cables being threaded through? I didn't think that those types of cables were "bundled" on site?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

SpongeG · #**2132** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 1:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

It looks paved to me!!

http://archives.earthcam.com/archives5/ecnetwork/ca/bc/burnaby/2011/03/31/1500.jpg

what part? the part in the middle is not paved - the old grandview exit has been unpaved or whatever you call it the rest of the roads are all exsiting

cornholio · #**2133** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 7:49 AM**

Regarding all this talk about oil prices bla bla bla

1) Oil and gasoline is still cheaper then in the early 80's as far as I understand.
2) Vehicles are more fuel efficient then they have ever been, much more.
3) Relatively speaking amount spent on gasoline as a percentage of total expenditures for citizens and businesses is lower then in the past. It is only higher in real terms do to increased mobility and flexibility of our economy.(say you spend a extra $10 on gas to source parts from another city because it saves you $20 in labor, 20 years ago this was much less common).

Having said that I hate the price of gas now a days, but if I werent spending so much more money on other things then I wouldn't even notice. But hell if I only canceled my internet service than that alone would cover a good chunck of my yearly expenses for fueling my car, or even better yet just dont buy that new 40 inch TV and problem solved, gas is payed for for the year(about 50% in my case but still).

/rant

DKaz · #**2134** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 3:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

what part? the part in the middle is not paved - the old grandview exit has been unpaved or whatever you call it the rest of the roads are all exsiting

Just to the right.

Zassk · #**2135** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 6:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

Just to the right.

It looks like the sand has been flattened with a steamroller, but definitely not paved.

officedweller · #**2136** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 8:07 PM**

They've been grading that area for a while now - but not paved. I wonder about the "potholes" in the sand towards the bottom of the webcam pic.

officedweller · #**2137** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 8:35 PM**

Looks like the widening of the new overpass at Cape Horn is progressing - webcam pic from today:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And the foam blocks at King Edward Overpass are being sealed on top - I wonder what the sides will look like?

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s211 · #**2138** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

And the foam blocks at King Edward Overpass are being sealed on top - I wonder what the sides will look like?

Not being a construction guy, I'm amazed that foam is used. I'd think it would really compact under the weight.

Canadian Mind · #**2139** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 9:42 PM**

Even normal foam can hold a huge amount of weight, it's all about weight distribution. a 4 meter by 8 meter block of packing foam a foot thick, underneath a steel plate, can hold a 70 tonne tank up with no compression because the steel plate makes for a very low ground pressure on the foam. its the same principle for foam used in road construction.

Metro-One · #**2140** Posted **Apr 1, 2011, 9:45 PM**

It is going to be quite a job to take that terribly designed overpass out of the #1. Looks like that will start happening soon seeing how far along the new overpass currently is.