ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 161

NYbyWAYofGA · #**3201** Posted **Mar 1, 2011, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

Why does everyone on here hate parking lots so much? I don't like them but I hate not being able to find a parking spot.

Because they cater even more to cars and create dead zones in the inner city where there should be pedestrian activity...

gttx · #**3202** Posted **Mar 1, 2011, 9:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecool

It'll be a parking lot.... I don't understand why they demo these buildings unless something is replacing it right after! If not then remodel it. We have so many gaps to fill in anyway, why make more.... ugh!

Because buildings are expensive to maintain. Especially if they are very old and - in this case - have rent-subsidized tenants.

Parking lots aren't great, but they are ideal if something else is planned for the future. They are cheap to build and rip out later, and provide revenue and a supply of parking in the interim.

What the city should do is require plans for future development before approving a surface lot in certain parts of the city. Ie, parking will only be approved if a building is approved first, and only as a temporary solution.

simms3_redux · #**3203** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 2:36 AM**

Went to another meeting today specific to the company leading the redevelopment effort. I don't think anything discussed was confidential and it's not as if I have the renderings on me.

Ok, so Green Street Properties is a local development firm entrenched in New Urbanism that was acquired by Jamestown in 2007. Jamestown is the equity partner in the project, and so logically it has hired Green Street to be the architect and developer.

The actual deal to purchase City Hall East and its main parcel (there are a couple parcels on the lot) will officially close within 30 days. This coincides with the ADA's timetable to start construction on that segment of the Beltline.

On to the plans:

~400,000 SF office (trying to lure one large anchor tenant that needs large floorplates to fit in data centers, like a health care provider, etc)

~350,000 SF of a mix of rentals and condos

~250,000 groundfloor retail (this will have two anchors, a two floor open air promenade with a Chelsea Market type vibe...Green Street owns Chelsea Market, and a mix of local/regional retailers and nationals)

1) The current parking deck will be demolished and parking will instead be reduced in number and fit in the basement and 2nd/3rd floor

2) The ground floor retail will be accessible from the street on all four sides, as well as from inside the building. Each storefront will have its own unique mini-facade/faschia on the first floor or two of the overall building

3) There are 3-4 additional spaces for development of new construction on the site, if the additional parcel is purchased or sold to someone who would hire Green Street as the developer

The timetable is roughly 4th quarter 2013 for the first phase, which is probably going to include the retail, or much of it. This process will not be a quick one, but is quite a needed development. The building minus the ~600,000 SF parking deck is roughly 2,000,000 SF of space. Because the parking will be incorporated into this space, gross leasable area will be reduced by about half.

Oh, and the renderings looked pretty cool, though they were halfway between conceptual and the real product.

Green Street has quite a resume that includes Glenwood Park on the Eastside south of Moreland.

Green Street Properties

Jamestown - Home

simms3_redux · #**3204** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 2:41 AM**

So, recently CB Richard Ellis Investors and North American Properties partnered to close a deal that allowed them to purchase the retail space (minus Dillards, Target, and Ikea which are owned by those individual companies), 271 17th Street (the BB&T tower), 2 of the rental apartments, and 14 acres of undeveloped parcels.

North American Properties will essentially be the operator, and CBRE Investors is the capital partner and new master developer.

I attended a meeting at Rosa Mexicana last week where the managing partner of the Atlanta office of NAP gave a talk on the future plans. Basically, just for a quick recap:

1) Security will be improved
2) Restaurants/bars currently there that turn into nightclubs until 2-3 am will not be allowed to do so anymore
3) Shuttle service for events will be expanded
4) One of the buildings might be transformed into a Faneuil Hall type indoor-open-air market
5) Street performers will be brought in and the shopping/tourist/residents' experience will be greatly enhanced

6) Currently has a "mall" type lineup of tenants that do not fit the market needs. What is proposed is a better lineup of local restaurants, local boutiques, and chain retailers that cater to an urban, creative, affluent crowd.

7) Better connectivity to Midtown and to Georgia Tech are in the works
8) Social media will play an integral role for the center

My question is this: With a new tenant lineup (some tenants like H&M will definitely be staying, btw), what are some stores that we think will be good fits for Atlantic Station? The goal of the new owners is to have a retail center that caters to local residents within 3 miles reach. The goal is not to have a mall roster that tries to be a regional attraction like Lenox is.

Other things that were discussed were temporarily transforming either one of the parcels on 17th or the area where Cirque goes into a park for residents. Eventually, the plan is that the parcels on 17th and that area where Cirque is will be more residential and maybe a hotel (I'm sure we've all seen that rendering of the hotel/condos that was supposed to go up across from 171 17th St).

I posted this last week on City-Data to gather feedback, and at first the posts were great. Then a bunch of young guys morphed it into a race talk, albeit a very open/positive dialogue that I participated in. Hopefully we can talk more development/ideas here and realize that whether we like it or not, Atlantic Station is soon going to cater more to the yuppie intown crowd and will not be a nightlife district. As soon as we accept that and move on (that actually makes me excited), we can talk about making it the best yuppie district it can be (and I think AS is going to go for a more family friendly theme, too).

shivtim · #**3205** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 3:01 AM**

Tonight NPU-E approved transfer of development rights from 875 W Peachtree (the Academy of Medicine building) to the Hilton/Homewood hotel slated for 10th and Williams. Basically it means the hotel can have more first-floor retail, including a restaurant and bar.

The hotel still doesn't have final approval from the city to begin construction. Also, several of the NPU-E board members saw the new renderings and were not happy with the parking deck. I don't think the city will approve the building as is, they will have to switch materials and hide the three story parking deck a little better.

ATLaffinity · #**3206** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 6:36 PM**

Regarding AS,

So can we all agree that a crappy, low-rent outdoor mall is NOT better than nothing at all. Even the developers hate what it is.

As far as street performers, god help me if they have mimes. I love the idea of fixing AS but that is a strange focus.

Too bad they can't evict Dillards. What a frumpy brand to have facing out onto the connector.

Anthropologie fits better in the "new" AS than at Westside. I love Westside but not where they should be.

As far as stores. Uniqlo. Dean & Deluca. Barnes & Noble It's tough. People always want to get the hip kids. But give me some other reason to go there.

Also shitcan the flea market vibe with those stalls they put out.

And please add greenspace.

shivtim · #**3207** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 7:24 PM**

They mentioned that Dillards "could be doing better," while specific examples of stores doing very well were H&M, Target, and Ikea.
Also he stressed the "local" aspect, and that they really are going to try to get local and unique stores.
There was an odd obsession with valet parking, and how it will make Atlantic Station "an experience," and of course no mention of transit or trying to improve non-car accessibility to AS.

simms3_redux · #**3208** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 8:17 PM**

I think Toro has mentioned playing with expanding Shuttle service during events and then depending on success, expanding shuttle service on a more permanent basis.

Knowing what crawls out of Art Center Station after 9:00 p.m. I would like to see the current Shuttle forgo stopping at Art Center for an actual loop like Tech Trolley does. It should swing through Westside over by White Provisions, Tech, and Midtown and forget about Art Center Station altogether.

shivtim · #**3209** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 9:23 PM**

So you're suggesting AS should have no free connection to MARTA rail? First, that's not a good idea. Second, it's illegal. AS must run the free shuttle over the 17th street bridge to Arts Center MARTA, as part of the agreement that allowed the bridge to be built (and meet EPA air quality attainment standards).

*edit: I see you mean it should connect to the Midtown MARTA station instead of Arts Center... I'm not sure if that would be allowed. Also what you propose seems like it could be much more expensive than the current shuttle to Arts Center. It would basically be a circulator system. Maybe if GA Tech chipped in, but they already run several other shuttle routes.

NYbyWAYofGA · #**3210** Posted **Mar 2, 2011, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Regarding AS,

So can we all agree that a crappy, low-rent outdoor mall is NOT better than nothing at all. Even the developers hate what it is.

As far as street performers, god help me if they have mimes. I love the idea of fixing AS but that is a strange focus.

Too bad they can't evict Dillards. What a frumpy brand to have facing out onto the connector.

Anthropologie fits better in the "new" AS than at Westside. I love Westside but not where they should be.

As far as stores. Uniqlo. Dean & Deluca. Barnes & Noble It's tough. People always want to get the hip kids. But give me some other reason to go there.

Also shitcan the flea market vibe with those stalls they put out.

And please add greenspace.

Your post is hilarious...lol. You have some great suggestions here. Those stores you suggested would also be great for Midtown Mile, as well. However, Atlantic Station would probably have a better chance of landing them.

Chris Creech · #**3211** Posted **Mar 3, 2011, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivtim

So you're suggesting AS should have no free connection to MARTA rail? First, that's not a good idea. Second, it's illegal. AS must run the free shuttle over the 17th street bridge to Arts Center MARTA, as part of the agreement that allowed the bridge to be built (and meet EPA air quality attainment standards).

*edit: I see you mean it should connect to the Midtown MARTA station instead of Arts Center... I'm not sure if that would be allowed. Also what you propose seems like it could be much more expensive than the current shuttle to Arts Center. It would basically be a circulator system. Maybe if GA Tech chipped in, but they already run several other shuttle routes.

I've taken that shuttle several times now on weekends, and it's never felt like a shopper's shuttle, it's always been more people going to work and teenagers. It seems to have lot of riders when I've been on it. Though I don't know if some casual shoppers would feel comfortable. Once the driver had to break up a fight and put a couple of guys out of the shuttle.

NYbyWAYofGA · #**3212** Posted **Mar 3, 2011, 7:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivtim

So you're suggesting AS should have no free connection to MARTA rail? First, that's not a good idea. Second, it's illegal. AS must run the free shuttle over the 17th street bridge to Arts Center MARTA, as part of the agreement that allowed the bridge to be built (and meet EPA air quality attainment standards).

*edit: I see you mean it should connect to the Midtown MARTA station instead of Arts Center... I'm not sure if that would be allowed. Also what you propose seems like it could be much more expensive than the current shuttle to Arts Center. It would basically be a circulator system. Maybe if GA Tech chipped in, but they already run several other shuttle routes.

I think there should actually be more Marta to shuttle connections, via Midtown and North Ave stations, to provide more options (especially to the GSU and AUC students). There could be sort of a circular shuttle line connecting and bringing students/workers/etc to the North Ave, Midtown and Arts Center Marta stations and to other destinations in between on the east side . Once at Arts Center station, the shuttle could continue over to Atlantic Station and then continue on to the other west side destinations and then back again. The circular shuttle should maybe go as far south as the Centennial Olympic Park area and loop in with the streetcar. All of these major destinations (Centennial Olympic Park/Aquarium/GWCC, Midtown Mile, Atlantic Station, West Midtown and Tech Campus/Ferst Center for the Arts/Bobby Dodd Stadium) could be connected on the east side and west side via this circular shuttle line.

BlueSangha · #**3213** Posted **Mar 3, 2011, 7:08 PM**

like I stated on pg157 of this thread: "was never fond of the fact that they put retail outlets there that one could go to anywhere else. i think the retail portion of the development could have and should reflect its uniqueness as a development, there is no real draw." So I agree that they need new retailers. I think the street performers will last all of about 10min, really, street performers? Valet? Why kill the nightclub scene? If your bringing in more security, that should keep those "nightclubs" in check. Sounds to me like they're trying to whiten the place up, not turn it into a true hip urban destination. It needs culture, entertainment, play spaces, all the corporate big boxes need to go!

NYbyWAYofGA · #**3214** Posted **Mar 3, 2011, 9:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

I think the street performers will last all of about 10min, really, street performers? Valet? Why kill the nightclub scene? If your bringing in more security, that should keep those "nightclubs" in check. Sounds to me like they're trying to whiten the place up, not turn it into a true hip urban destination. It needs culture, entertainment, play spaces, all the corporate big boxes need to go!

Thank you.

It just sounds contradictory to me. On one hand, people say that they want Atlantic Station to have all of this character and to be unique, organic, and provide a hip urban experience. On the other hand, they make suggestions that would further sterilize the place. Hopefully, the new management team will strike a balance and create something for everyone.

ATLaffinity · #**3215** Posted **Mar 4, 2011, 12:18 AM**

Where are they going to find so many "local" boutiques??? Here's a secret: a lot of locally-owned shops are dreadful vanity projects. I'd rather have West Elm instead of some local "handbag designer".

Are they enough rooftops to support Westside, AS and Midtown Mile. With the new direction of AS, there seems to be a lot of overlapping goals. Only Westside seems to be thriving.

Agreed on the nightclubs. I've never thought "This place is great except for all the late-night madness with the nightclubs". I don't live there so maybe the clubs cause problems?

mike1986 · #**3216** Posted **Mar 4, 2011, 1:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

Thank you.

It just sounds contradictory to me. On one hand, people say that they want Atlantic Station to have all of this character and to be unique, organic, and provide a hip urban experience. On the other hand, they make suggestions that would further sterilize the place. Hopefully, the new management team will strike a balance and create something for everyone.

Those restaurants that turn into "nightclubs" are sterile. Instead of the lame crap there now, how about some pubs and sophisticated/hip lounges instead. That is a better direction than what currently exists. How is that making it more sterile?

simms3_redux · #**3217** Posted **Mar 4, 2011, 1:35 AM**

Currently the trade area has ~4SF of retail per person whereas the national average is about ~20SF of retail per person. That alone is a number that proves that there is room to go for retail.

I agree that Anthropologie would probably fit better in the new AS, but they knew they had a market in the area and they weren't about to wait around for something to happen at AS.

Also, I forgot to mention that the absolute first thing that NAP is going to do is to revamp the parking garage to make it more user friendly. You'll be able to find your car now (though I never had any problems finding mine).

As far as "whitening up" AS, it's not about whitening up the place as it is catering to its actual trade area, which the population living within a few minutes. This population is pretty white for an intown Atlanta area, but is still very diverse. The African Americans living in the trade area for a large part have similar tastes to the whites living in the trade area, and both have different tastes than the current visitors to AS (whether shoppers or club goers). AS is finally going to cater to its own trade area rather than trying to pull in people from all over.

The small amount of students who attend GSU who actually live downtown or nearby are considered part of the trade area, but out of GSU's tens of thousands of students, even with all of the new development most still commute in and live well outside of the trade area. Tech is the only "large" college with almost all of its students living within the trade area.

NYbyWAYofGA · #**3218** Posted **Mar 4, 2011, 9:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1986

Those restaurants that turn into "nightclubs" are sterile. Instead of the lame crap there now, how about some pubs and sophisticated/hip lounges instead. That is a better direction than what currently exists. How is that making it more sterile?

Mike, I wasn't talking about the generic chain restaurants. I was talking about the effort to get rid of the nightspots. I do agree that there need to be more of a lounge scene at Atlantic Station. What is so great about lounges, I think, is that they tend to be more laid back and attract a more mellow crowd. Clubs are great too, but sometimes you want to just mellow out and chill in a lounge with friends over drinks...

jew4life4948 · #**3219** Posted **Mar 5, 2011, 8:39 PM**

It would do Atlantic Station good to work with Loring Heights to secure the air rights to the CSX line that runs behind Target along 18th Street, and build that pedestrian bridge and establishing better connectivity and integration with the surrounding neighborhoods.

And can we all agree that the intersection at State and 16th that doesn't allow north/southbound travel creates more problems than it solves? I've seen Atlantic Station patrol and APD do the drive around it trick.

Oh imagine something like Potbelly's, Alon's Baker or even Six Feet Under, Alon's recently opened a second location in the old Eatzi's near Perimeter Mall and Six Feet Under opened a second location on 10th and Howell Mill a while back.

Just brainstorming...

Zanarkand A East · #**3220** Posted **Mar 5, 2011, 10:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jew4life4948

It would do Atlantic Station good to work with Loring Heights to secure the air rights to the CSX line that runs behind Target along 18th Street, and build that pedestrian bridge and establishing better connectivity and integration with the surrounding neighborhoods.

And can we all agree that the intersection at State and 16th that doesn't allow north/southbound travel creates more problems than it solves? I've seen Atlantic Station patrol and APD do the drive around it trick.

Oh imagine something like Potbelly's, Alon's Baker or even Six Feet Under, Alon's recently opened a second location in the old Eatzi's near Perimeter Mall and Six Feet Under opened a second location on 10th and Howell Mill a while back.

Just brainstorming...

All very good ideas

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

Mike, I wasn't talking about the generic chain restaurants. I was talking about the effort to get rid of the nightspots. I do agree that there need to be more of a lounge scene at Atlantic Station. What is so great about lounges, I think, is that they tend to be more laid back and attract a more mellow crowd. Clubs are great too, but sometimes you want to just mellow out and chill in a lounge with friends over drinks...

The "club" crowd is ruining the "lounge" scene too. That's where they go when they're too old to pretend to dance, and just want to "be seen." Some real nightspots would be great for ATLstn, but the the owners will have to enforce a higher standard ... somehow.