Halifax Stadium Discussion

[wespidel]

Halifax step up at the plate and make the residents of Halifax and the surrounding area and region proud and please build a major stadium that will put Halifax on a Global and National stage now and in the future! Build a multi purpose sizable, quality made modern stadium for the only major city left in Canada that doeas not have a major stadium! I can`t stress that more, a major stadium not just a stadium!

[Waye Mason]

With the feds out for a pro stadium we are back to ACOA for funding from the feds, which means a small stadium probably $50 mil or less. I can't see ACOA, who's budget is being cut this year, putting in more than 7-15 mil.

Here is the funding breakdown for the Moncton Stadium for reference:

The Government of Canada is investing $7.5 million in the project through ACOA’s Innovative Communities Fund. The Province of New Brunswick, through the Regional Development Corporation, is providing $6.5 million, while the City of Moncton is providing $5 million and the Université de Moncton’s contribution is valued at $3.5 million.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I agree. I live up here and even I was somewhat offended as an ex-Nova Scotian.

The one a few days ago about stadium funding in Halifax as another handout was even more offensive - http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/kelly-mcparland-halifax-wants-a-stadium-too/ .

This sits poorly with me on many levels. The Federal Government contributed 27 million to Toronto's 63 Million dollar "BMO Field" built for and used by the professional MLS soccer club FC Toronto. BMOF is also known as "National Soccer Stadium" as it was called during the FIFA U-20.

Does this mean the Federal Government DOES have monies for infrastructure related to major FIFA events? They say no. Does this mean the Federal Government DOES have monies available for infrastructure for pro-sports franchises? They say no. Does this mean Toronto DOES take handouts from the Federal Government? They say no.

I say yes, yes and yes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

With the feds out for a pro stadium we are back to ACOA for funding from the feds, which means a small stadium probably $50 mil or less. I can't see ACOA, who's budget is being cut this year, putting in more than 7-15 mil.

Here is the funding breakdown for the Moncton Stadium for reference:

Thanks for the information Waye Mason - nice find. I think if ACOA could contribute $15 million then that would be about the best that we could all hope for. I am still hoping that the HRM will set up a building fund to give individuals a chance to contribute. Then if a corporate sponsor could be found to match the individual contributions it could possibly amount to a significant amount of money.

I agree with terrynorthend, the BMO Field received a significant contribution from the federal government which doesn't seem right. The problem that I see, is that there are too many extravagant sports proposals seeking federal funds right now.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the information Waye Mason - nice find. I think if ACOA could contribute $15 million then that would be about the best that we could all hope for. I am still hoping that the HRM will set up a building fund to give individuals a chance to contribute. Then if a corporate sponsor could be found to match the individual contributions it could amount to a significant amount of money.

More data, this is from the Wikipedia page for BMO so I have not verified it, but:

With a total costs of $62.9 million[12] ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium, which they later resold to the Bank of Montreal for $27 million over 10 years.[13][14] The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium.

Issues for us: 1 - there is no private partner with $8 million around. 2 $10 million in naming rights in Toronto, so far less in Halifax. 3 This project started when Paul Martin was Prime Minister, so conditions are different 4 Toronto has 3 million people, proportionally they would contribute, what, 3 million here?

I don't think it is realistic to go from $7.5 million in Moncton to $27 mil in Halifax, on par with Toronto. I think 7-15 million, probably from ACOA, is the range. Now ACOA has what, 200 mil to spend in Nova Scotia a year, a lot is committed already, so 15 mil from ACOA is a substantial chunk. Huge.

[fenwick16]

I think that the difference could be made up by people who really want a stadium - in other words through a fund raising drive. Say $10 - $15 million could be raised by small individual contributions and then find at least one large contributor (or a corporate sponsor). Ron Joyce contributed $10 million to McMaster University's Ron Joyce Stadium.

Once there are commitments of $30 million from government sources and private donations the construction could begin. Then as construction proceeds additional money could be raised to finish it off.

[FuzzyWuz]

Has anyone raised the idea of a municipal bond?

[fenwick16]

I had heard of a program in Nova Scotia that provided significant tax reduction incentives for individuals investing in high risk investments. I heard of it about 15 years ago, so I don't know if it still exists. I heard of the program in regards to a mining company operating out of Nova Scotia. It might have been through the Nova Scotia government since only Nova Scotia residents were eligible to get the tax benefit from it. Since I lived in Ontario, I didn't get any additional information on it.

Does anyone know what this program would be? Maybe money could be raised through individuals buying shares in the stadium project and have the money tax deductible as an RSP contribution.

[wespidel]

Watching Mr. Lunn almost in a mean manner, not wanting to support funding for a stadium in Halifax and making a point of bringing this out again right after Canada was awared the FIFA bid, which he was directly targeting Halifax was quite upsetting to witness. Two reasons I believe for this, one which I believe is the most important is the fact there is a NDP govt. in NS which I believe is also hurting Peter MacKay`s support which has disappeared all of the sudden and of course NB has now a conversative govt. and a stadium. I believe the CommonWealth Games embarrassment may be a factor as well. Halifax now doesn`t even have the support of Dexter`s govt. having hearing Dexter on TV last nite stating if the Feds aren`t on board their Govt. may not be. I more convinced if Halifax gets a stadium it`s going to be a mickey mouse facility like their first Events NS 9,500 permanent seat stadium which will not be a major stadium.

PS. Also FIFA say that all 20,000 seats even if half are temporary have to be single backed seats and not benches.

Another disturbing remark what I call a PC cover up was when the Federal funding individual from Ottawa was on 95.7 yesterday and said that they didn`t support the BMO field FIFA U-20 World Cup in 2007 stadium project. He said only 3 million and that was too much when on the BMO site itself it states that the Feds gave 27 million. He also said they weren`t suporting the Hamilton stadium which they are, 70 million from the Feds and the Ont. govt. which is public knowledge, all in his defence not to support Halifax`s stadium project. I believe they are covering up the truth because of Lunn`s unwillingness to support Halifax`s stadium probably because of Dexter govt. being NDP and NB being conversative and Lunn being from Victoria who won`t be chosen as a host city. I think this is terrible and I believe Harper`s Govt. will lose a lot respect and votes in Quebec, Regina and Halifax regions, for this kind dishonesty and for misleading the public.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Does anyone know what this program would be? Maybe money could be raised through individuals buying shares in the stadium project and have the money tax deductible as an RSP contribution.

I don't know about high risk, but you could set it up as a CEDIF a Community Ecomomic Development Investment Fund. A lot of the wind power stuff Scotian Windfields was doing was using the CEDIF model, also Marigold Centre in Truro, and I think some of the coop coffee stuff in Kentville.


http://www.gov.ns.ca/econ/cedif/

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[c-way-dude]

According to a story from the Ottawa Citizen, there is a chance that a legal action could delay the Lansdowne Park redevelopment.

[q12]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

This stadium won’t be a professional facility
By CHRIS COCHRANE Sports Columnist





http://thechronicleherald.ca/Sports/1231364.html

I think painting the stadium as amateur only is the key to federal funding, which can turn a $30 to $60 million budget into a $45 to $90 million budget. That could mean the difference between building a permanent Empire Field vs. a super BMO Field.

And this article has no pro-stadium comments

EDIT: OK, now it has one!

^^^

LOL.

I agree with everything in his article. There is no worries. I strongly believe federal stadium money is available to us and so does Peter Mackay. Keeping the stadium reasonably price will be the key to its success.

The more affordable stadium design examples we can find the better. It's likely some people who will be involved in the planning of this stadium will be checking these forums every once in awhile.

[q12]

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/792548--can-we-get-ready-for-the-world

Build it, and they should come.
That is the thinking among those behind the bid to make Halifax one of the host cities for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.
Halifax is the only city without a proper outdoor stadium among the seven currently vying for a hosting spot.
But that fact doesn’t lessen Grant MacDonald’s optimism.
“Halifax is well on its way down the path towards becoming a host city,” declared MacDonald, director of major events for Events Nova Scotia.
The comments Thursday came hours after the Canadian Soccer Association officially won the right to host the event, the largest in all of women’s sport.
“We feel the process that HRM is leading is an appropriate process,” MacDonald said regarding the viability for an outdoor stadium in Halifax. “It will allow for the proper level of input from all stakeholder groups and from all segments of the community.”
Mayor Peter Kelly also sounds hopeful.
“We’ve already commenced Phase 1 of our stadium review. Once that is complete by the end of June, we’ll then go into Phase 2 (site selection, funding), and then hopefully onto Phase 3 (building),” he said.
Canadian Soccer Association spokesperson Richard Scott said Thursday at least six cities will host games in the 24-country tournament. He said that figure could increase but that “there is no magic number.”
Moncton is also aiming to host.
“I think the best possible outcome is for both Moncton and Halifax to be host cities in 2015,” MacDonald said.
“Who knows what opportunities may come down the road in the future for us to look at shared opportunities if we both have the suitable infrastructure?”

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/12496/Ricks-Rants-Friday-March-4th2011

And now that FIFA has awarded the 2015 World Cup women's soccer tournament to Canada, the pressure's on Halifax to come up with a plan for an outdoor sports stadium. A business case for the stadium is expected by June, plenty of time says the mayor to get a stadium built in time to host some of the tournament's games. Halifax is one of several Canadian cities hoping to land games but is the only city without a stadium. Complicating matters is Ottawa insistence it will not provide cash for any "professional" sports stadiums or arenas. Quebec City had been hoping for a federal contribution toward its proposed $450 million hockey arena and Bloc Quebcois leader Gilles Duceppe has suggested he'll hit the warpath if Halifax gets any federal money to build its hoped for outdoor stadium. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation yesterday also came out against any federal cash for any kind of sports facility.

^^^
Gilles Duceppe can kiss my Canadian A$$

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/12496/Ricks-Rants-Friday-March-4th2011


^^^
Gilles Duceppe can kiss my Canadian A$$

Complicating matters is Ottawa insistence it will not provide cash for any "professional" sports stadiums or arenas. Quebec City had been hoping for a federal contribution toward its proposed $450 million hockey arena and Bloc Quebcois leader Gilles Duceppe has suggested he'll hit the warpath if Halifax gets any federal money to build its hoped for outdoor stadium. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation yesterday also came out against any federal cash for any kind of sports facility.

It is frustrating to read the Gilles Duceppe comments about the facility that Halifax is considering. However, to be fair, if Halifax gets $15 million for its amateur FIFA soccer stadium then Quebec City should get $25 - $30 million for its extravagant arena (which is far less than what they want).

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Empire

Seems as though crybaby McParland can't even put a sentence together. Perhaps his own local dialect won't allow him to spell properly. The general premise is that any money Ottawa sends our way is less for them. I like Toronto but the national media (Toronto) can't stand to see any other part of the country make gains. When the Atlantic Schooners franchise was tentatively awarded the national CBC did a blurb on it and Halifax in general. They chased down a fisherman on his boat and asked him some questions about football and his response was "FOOTBALL.... ain't no footballs out there" pointing out to sea. A gleeful reporter then as much as said, they know nothing about football. The first 2011 Canada Winter Games story that the CBC aired was about the bedbugs and that was it, nothing about the games.

It is never a surprise how low the national media or center of the universe attitude can go. The key is to ignore it and rise above the self centered petty arrogance.


Kelly McParland
"But nevermind. Halifax is planning to spend $100,000 on a “feasibility study,” which, I’m willing to bet, will conclude that a stadium is fully feasible is someone comes along to pick up the costs. Someone, like … a government outside of Nova Scotia."

Further to the misconception that we are looking for constant handouts in this region it must be noted that when the Feds said they wouldn`t support the Bedford 4-plex WE BUILT IT OURSELVES!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by q12

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/12496/Ricks-Rants-Friday-March-4th2011


The Canadian Taxpayers Federation yesterday also came out against any federal cash for any kind of sports facility.

Let's be clear about two things here:

1. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation locally is just a high-falutin' name for one person, an extreme right-winger named Kevin Lacey.

2. Kevin Lacey is nuts and is a one-trick pony who opposes any govt spending on anything.

The quality of journalism here is sad. Incredible that nobody has made this point about the CTF in the press.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Let's be clear about two things here:

1. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation locally is just a high-falutin' name for one person, an extreme right-winger named Kevin Lacey.

2. Kevin Lacey is nuts and is a one-trick pony who opposes any govt spending on anything.

The quality of journalism here is sad. Incredible that nobody has made this point about the CTF in the press.

Interesting information. I looked up the link for the Atlantic division - http://taxpayer.com/node/13067 . I see that people can donate money to this organization. I wonder if their financial statements are available to the general public since they portray their organization as speaking for all taxpayers, even though they are not elected. I wonder if the directors are being paid, and if they are, how well are they being paid for their unelected representation of Canadian taxpayers?

[fenwick16]

On a different topic. Regarding wespidel's assertion that MP Gary Lunn doesn't want Halifax to get federal funding for a stadium so that Victoria could become involved in the FIFA tournament. I just found a story posted today in a Victory area newspaper which seems to support wespidel's viewpoint. MP Gary Lund has been very assertive in stating that no federal funding will be available for a stadium in Halifax. Almost "too assertive" in my opinion.

What do others think about this:

(source: http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Lack+stadium+costly+Victoria/4382792/story.html)

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The tripping point for Victoria appears to be the CSA insistence of permanent stadiums of minimum 20,000 capacity for the event. But Halifax and Moncton fall short in that category, too, which gives local boosters hope and ammunition.

"So who knows? That minimum requirement could change," said Hugh MacDonald, executive director of SportHost Victoria.

"Neither Moncton nor Halifax are currently suitable venues under that stipulation. And we have the track record and history with FIFA. We are prepared to come back to the table if the stadium requirement changes. We could come up with a temporary 12,000-to 15,000-seat facility at either Centennial Stadium [site of the 2002 women's U-20 World Cup] or Royal Athletic Park [site of the 2007 FIFA U-20 men's World Cup group]."

The City of Halifax is tentatively exploring the feasibility of building a 20,000seat, $60-million stadium in time for the World Cup.

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The 2015 decision was a foregone conclusion for Canada after the only other bidder, Zimbabwe, dropped out. The 2011 women's World Cup is this summer in Germany.

Saanich-Gulf Islands MP and federal Sport Minister Gary Lunn, who was at FIFA House in Zurich last month to deliver the Canadian bid, watched the announcement from Zurich live Thursday morning in Ottawa.

The feds are contributing $15 million to the World Cup but Lunn said the federal funding is not earmarked for new stadiums but for operations.

As for his hometown's chances of hosting games, Lunn said he is the sport minister for the entire nation.

"It's important I don't influence that decision," he said recently. "Obviously, I would love to see it [a group] here in Victoria. But we have to be realistic."
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Some of you will remember how the Canadian Commonwealth Games site selection committee chose Halifax to host the 1994 Commonwealth Games but then the organizing committee overrode their decision and awarded it to Victoria instead. Is history going to repeat itself with help from MP Gary Lunn?

[Empire]

The loss of the 1994 Commonwealth Games was a huge blow. There never was a technical reason given for the flip flop that handed the games to Victoria after Halifax had won the selection fairly. It was determined that there was a personality conflict between some Halifax committee members and the games committee.

• 1984 - Halifax loses CFL franchise due to lack of stadium

• 1994 - Halifax loses bid to Victoria for Commonwealth Games and hope for stadium goes with it

• 2007 - Halifax backs out of Commonwealth Games bid and hope for stadium is lost

• 2011- lack of stadium is major issue in bidding for FIFA World Cup.....someone will eventually realize that a stadium for Halifax is a much needed piece of public infrastructure

Victoria didn't end up with much of a stadium as a result of the '94 Games.
http://www.hostingbc.ca/content/university-victoria-centennial-stadium