UBC/UEL Updates Discussion

[Waders]

It is quite unfortunate that the hospice project faced so many oppositions.

And in a democratic society, people can use all kinds of reasons, no matter how "strange" that may sound. A hospice would affect "proper student life"? Shouldn't student spend time to study?

The proposed location of the hospice has been shuffled around eight potential sites around UBC over the past two years.

Two of the proposed locations near Place Vanier and St. John's College, both student residences, was met with opposition from students in 2009. Students believed that the construction of a hospice nearby would infringe on students' rights to a "proper student life," according to a Facebook page called "Building a Hospice Near Vanier hurts UBC Students".

Source: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/thescene/2011/01/13/st-johns-hospice-cant-find-its-roots-ubc

[SpikePhanta]

Maybe the citizens of the building have a huge late night chinese new year party to show that the location isnt fit because it would be too loud for the hospice.


(im not serious.)

[invisibleairwaves]

Not to defend the students, but everyone knows that student residences and partying go hand-in-hand, and placing the hospice next to that wouldn't have been good for the hospice's users. At least that move was made with some degree of practicality attached to it, rather than moronic superstition. The students come across as being just as selfish as the condo owners though.

Surely they can find a location somewhere on UBC's gigantic chunk of land that won't piss someone off?

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by golog

If I may try and read too much into your post, you don't seem to be seeking to change an opinion, influence, or even convince anyone. You're just throwing down an ultimatum, and gambling for submission for fear of an unruly mob.

People are people, if you think any one group is too different then it's because your group and their groups haven't spent enough time around each other.

Take the race out of it, and how is this different than any other resident/NIMBY vs developer article?

and if this incident is truly rooted in a cultural belief, then it's a great thing we're hearing about it in the news. The earlier the better, the smaller the conflict the better. Presuming these beliefs are seen as a problem by normal people, then we have identified a specific group to educate and engage about the norm here with a relevant specific topic to discuss.

I think you are reading way too much into it and putting words in my mouth.

"gambling for submission for fear of an unruly mob."

In English, please? Where did I mention an ultimatum?

What does race have to do with this? Where did I mention this?

I agree they need to be educated.

You conveniently left out most of my post BTW. Please either refer to my whole post, or I will assume you agree with the rest of it.



Anyways, building it near students would be horrible for the people living in the hospice due to the noise. It really needs to be in a quiet residential area with transit service nearby.

[golog]

In an article about the Metro Vancouver regional plan, they mentioned UBC lobbied to be designated as a regional centre but the final draft only called them a 'centre'... sounded very political, and might have had something to do with Skytrain to UBC vs Skytrain to Surrey

[Zassk]

^ Agreed, sounds like denial on the part of Metro... not sure what their issue is with UEL becoming a population centre... is it because UEL is unincorporated?

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by Waders

I can understand the thinking and feeling of the concerned residents, not necessary agree with their approach.
Not sure how immigration policy got into the argument.

Each culture has its own belief about "good" and "bad".
Asian people, especially Chinese, has extremely strong belief about life and death. That's why they don't like to talk about "death" or even "sickness".
You can call the current UEL issue "bad luck", "bad Feng Shui or just "culture superstitions', but development planners need to pay more attention and sensitivity to this type of thing in a multculture society. There is a lot of "taboo" in different cultures.

If you look up the definition of "feng shui" in Wikipedia,



In layman's terms, I don't think seeing all the sick / dying people would made one feel happy. The long term psychological effect is impact to one's health.

I know this type of objections happened a lot in China, even in Hong Kong. Government usually would listen and either modify, cancel the development plan or change the location.
As Canada society becomes more and more multicultural, this type of argument will be more common.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

If you move to a new country or community, are you supposed to adapt to it, or are they supposed to adapt to you?

[Nutterbug]

Anyways, a SUCCESS spokesman clears the air and sets the record straight that it's all about selfish NIMBY assholes and not about Chinese culture:

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Asian...+protesters+Chan+says/4118115/story.html

[nova9]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Anyways, a SUCCESS spokesman clears the air and sets the record straight that it's all about selfish NIMBY assholes and not about Chinese culture:

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Asian...+protesters+Chan+says/4118115/story.html

so that's great that everyone got to take a dig at the chinese community and then let it go because, oh, it turns out it had nothing to do with race. perfect.

(that's not directed at you)

I called NIMBYism from the get-go, I just couldn't get a loud enough voice to shout over the racial remarks.

[Waders]

That's why I said the condo residents used the wrong strategy.
Using the "culture difference" card only managed to stir up controversy.
It would have been more convincing to follow student's approach and use the "proper resident life" card.
Anyway all these reasons are just excuse for NIMBYism.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I don't really see how proper resident life would be a good argument either. That end of campus is like a ghost town anyways. That area has been fought over as a quiet area of campus for the last decade, and a hospice would be an ideally located in such a setting. Such facilities already occupy many quiet residential neighbourhoods across the GVRD.

Compared to right next to Place Vanier that location is pretty ideal. Student culture is under a fair bit of duress already; while people may look down on its alcoholism and other "colour" it's a perfectly legitimate culture for that area of the city. Very few accommodations would be made regarding late noise and the like due to the fact that students already are starting to feel hemmed in by the residential development on campus and due to increased scrutiny by the RCMP.

I can't help but think that residential in this area has been more trouble than it's been worth. First there were noise complaints due to Arts County Fair and the outdoor concerts at Thunderbird Stadium which ultimately resulted in residents asking for the stadium to be moved. Now this.

[SFUVancouver]

Source

How much do you want to bet this will show up in advertising materials for a future development project?

[hollywoodnorth]

UBC launches green energy project
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/26/bc-ubc-biomass.html

[SFUVancouver]

^ That was exactly what the City was originally proposing for the neighbourhood energy utility for Southeast False Creek before some nutters in the False Creek Resident's Association got it into their heads that the thing would require a giant smokestack that would beltch black smoke and soot. I saw one of their 'information' stations on the Seawall one day and it featured a photo of the sugar cane refinery in Maui, which is an immense rusted out hulk shooting black smoke into the sky. We had a good discussion/argument about the issue and my point that they were being deceitful was acknowledged. They countered that the number of trucks that would be required to haul in wood pellets and haul away "smouldering ash" would "drive up local pollution levels, endanger children and public safety, and ruin property values". So, I would expect these people to be equally up in arms about UBC's plan to run those death machine wood chip trucks through the city en route to the university campus.

For what it's worth, too, the emissions profile of natural gas, which is what is burned at the SEFC NEU to top up the heating levels for the NEU's hotwater system, is only GHG friendly when you look at point source pollution. Natural gas' emissions profile at the point of combustion only represents the gas that made it from the well to the burner and not the staggering amount that is leaked or flared along the way. I recall reading in a Terasan document, which I haven't had in my possesion for years, that about 90% of natural gas' emissions come prior to combustion, which is why they are confident that they have the ability to dramatically lower the emissions profile of the fuel through reduced flaring, better leak management, and a shorter time between refining and combustion.

Anyway, good for UBC.

[Millennium2002]

In that case... would a train hauling in waste wood chips be better? Instead of several engines hauling wood there's just one or two powerful ones instead.

Unfortunately, UBC does not have a branch freight line, so that's more of a fantasy for now.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

In that case... would a train hauling in waste wood chips be better? Instead of several engines hauling wood there's just one or two powerful ones instead.

Unfortunately, UBC does not have a branch freight line, so that's more of a fantasy for now.

However, they will have a SkyTrain line someday from Commercial/Broadway.
By the time the UBC SkyTrain line is built, the original Skytrain cars can be converted into freight cars and the deliveries can be done overnight when the passenger service isn't running.

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

However, they will have a SkyTrain line someday from Commercial/Broadway.
By the time the UBC SkyTrain line is built, the original Skytrain cars can be converted into freight cars and the deliveries can be done overnight when the passenger service isn't running.

Thats a pretty cool idea actually, using skytrain lines for freight

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

Thats a pretty cool idea actually, using skytrain lines for freight

old news / old idea / already being done

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram#Cargo_trams

[SpikePhanta]

Well then, i've been under a rock!

[Jebby]

Im curious, how much of pacific spirit park can be torn down for new developments. I used to live in UBC and I'm really sad theyve gotten rid d so much forest across from Hampton Place