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  #4901  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ExpatBaman View Post
The problem is that anything-goes zoning will turn this into a sprawl corridor, the last thing that Montgomery needs now or in the future. The number of interchanges would need to be kept to a bare minimum to lessen the damage, but likely will not. The hundreds of millions that will be spent on this project would be better used on transit projects or street improvements that would actually reduce congestion and provide more connectivity in the city.
Why do you think that?
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  #4902  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:16 PM
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Why do you think that?
Numerous interchanges encourage awful traffic. Having fewer forces you to plan better and reduces reliance on the freeway to what they were intended for, long distance/inter-city travel.
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  #4903  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tredici View Post
Numerous interchanges encourage awful traffic. Having fewer forces you to plan better and reduces reliance on the freeway to what they were intended for, long distance/inter-city travel.
Why does he state but likely will not?
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  #4904  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 4:33 PM
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Why does he state but likely will not?
I think he means that they need to be kept to a minimum, but he's pessimistic that officials will do so. That they'll instead try and slap as many random-ass interchanges on the thing as they can.
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  #4905  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tredici View Post
I think he means that they need to be kept to a minimum, but he's pessimistic that officials will do so. That they'll instead try and slap as many random-ass interchanges on the thing as they can.
That's pretty much what I was referring to. Just a guess that ALDOT and local officials will do the bidding of suburban development interests.
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  #4906  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2011, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bystander1 View Post
There are things the city desperately needs, like the bypass...but it really needed it 20 years ago when it was cool to have an interstate loop. Now, 20 years later, migration trends show more people are moving closer to the city center, and we think more funding should be dedicated to urban-core transportation issues.

Personally, I think we need both.
Such a shame that I-85 wasn't built on a more southern route to begin with. The objective of the bypass proponents would have been achieved already and the city could have avoided a whole bunch of neighborhood destruction.
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  #4907  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ExpatBaman View Post
Such a shame that I-85 wasn't built on a more southern route to begin with. The objective of the bypass proponents would have been achieved already and the city could have avoided a whole bunch of neighborhood destruction.
Yes, but I think with today's trends, the development of neighborhoods and towns so far away from the urban core, like what was going on back in the 70's and 80's, is not only highly unfeasible with the cost of building new infrastructure (water, sewer, power, roads) but also highly foolish with the cost of fuel rising more rapidly than it does coming down. Montgomery was fortunate to get this far and not have so many parasitic towns surrounding it like kudzu.
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  #4908  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 4:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bystander1 View Post
Yes, but I think with today's trends, the development of neighborhoods and towns so far away from the urban core, like what was going on back in the 70's and 80's, is not only highly unfeasible with the cost of building new infrastructure (water, sewer, power, roads) but also highly foolish with the cost of fuel rising more rapidly than it does coming down.
Agree 100%. If only we could get our elected officials and the engineers at ALDOT to think like that.

This YouTube video illustrates what we've been getting for decades: Conversation with an Engineer.
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  #4909  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 1:43 PM
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Well OF COURSE the outer loop is going to make traffic better! Just like the Eastern Bypass did.
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  #4910  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 4:54 PM
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Well OF COURSE the outer loop is going to make traffic better! Just like the Eastern Bypass did.
But again, do you really want trucks on the Korean Corridor going through Downtown MTG on 85 and 65?

I agree wholeheartedly that 85 should've been built from the get-go to the south of the city, but that's not the reality we live in now. Right now, those trucks need an easier way to reach Hyundai then the Bypass or 85/65.
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  #4911  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 6:08 PM
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But again, do you really want trucks on the Korean Corridor going through Downtown MTG on 85 and 65?

I agree wholeheartedly that 85 should've been built from the get-go to the south of the city, but that's not the reality we live in now. Right now, those trucks need an easier way to reach Hyundai then the Bypass or 85/65.
Those trucks can get to and from Hyundai just fine right now. There is no need for a new bypass. A rail connection would be a more efficient and less costly way to move goods back and forth along the Korean corridor.
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  #4912  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by neilson View Post
But again, do you really want trucks on the Korean Corridor going through Downtown MTG on 85 and 65?

I agree wholeheartedly that 85 should've been built from the get-go to the south of the city, but that's not the reality we live in now. Right now, those trucks need an easier way to reach Hyundai then the Bypass or 85/65.
Exactly. The state needs to do everything it can to get those 18-wheelers off of 65 and 85. It's ridiculous the amount of trucks that are now hogging the interstates in the city. They will be required to use the "new" I-85 outer loop as the designated truck route. That will not take all of the "through traffic" trucks out of the city, but it will move enough of them to help traffic move better and safer.

After all, building the outer loop was part of the state's promise that Hyundai used to locate here. And I believe the state has only recently announced that it will finally live up to it's promise and restart the work on the outer loop because it was hurting their efforts to convince Hyundai to expand their manufacturing plant here. From Hyundai's standpoint: 'If you can't live up to your earlier promises for us to come here, what makes you think we can believe your new promises to expand here?'

Regardless of what happens with that, the state had no choice but to live up to it's obligations and restart the long-delayed highway.
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  #4913  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bystander1 View Post
Exactly. The state needs to do everything it can to get those 18-wheelers off of 65 and 85. It's ridiculous the amount of trucks that are now hogging the interstates in the city. They will be required to use the "new" I-85 outer loop as the designated truck route. That will not take all of the "through traffic" trucks out of the city, but it will move enough of them to help traffic move better and safer.

After all, building the outer loop was part of the state's promise that Hyundai used to locate here. And I believe the state has only recently announced that it will finally live up to it's promise and restart the work on the outer loop because it was hurting their efforts to convince Hyundai to expand their manufacturing plant here. From Hyundai's standpoint: 'If you can't live up to your earlier promises for us to come here, what makes you think we can believe your new promises to expand here?'

Regardless of what happens with that, the state had no choice but to live up to it's obligations and restart the long-delayed highway.
It's the double-edged sward of having a major manufacturing facility in the city. On the 1 hand, it's a huge economic boom(and considering the way those Sonatas and Elantras are selling, I don't see Hyundai letting up anytime soon).

On the other hand, Montgomery has to go the extra mile for certain infrastructure projects to handle the car plant. Mercedes and Honda don't have these issues because they are located well outside of urbanized cores and are right along the interstate. Hyundai's issue is that while it's located along I-65 on the southern end of Montgomery/Hope Hull, you now have all these suppliers setting up shop along I-85 between Montgomery, West Point, GA where the Kia plant is, and Atlanta. So suddenly you have a lot more medium distance travel along roughly 80-100 miles of interstate. This is direct contrast to Vance or Lincoln where the assembly plants are the hubs and the suppliers are located within very close distance(at least for the Tier I suppliers).

What Hyundai has done for East Alabama is incredible and will only continue to help those in the River Region. But in order to ease the city congestion and allow for easier transport of goods and products(Koreans have taken that just-in-time mentality that the Japanese made famous and raised it to the nth degree), the Outer Loop is going to have to be constructed.

What I hope is that there are limited access points along the loop(so as to gear it as a through route rather then add yet another commercial layer to the metro area) and that the development that does take place is more of the industrial form.
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  #4914  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2011, 4:03 AM
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The section between I-65 and Hwy 231 (Troy Hwy) is needed the most and should be given priority. The land was acquired by the state years ago.
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  #4915  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2011, 3:09 PM
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SmartCode Zoning for Old Cloverdale

This is GREAT news. We have been working towards this for years!
Montgomery City Council OKs SmartCode zoning for Old Cloverdale
By Jill Nolin • [email protected] • March 2, 2011

The new SmartCode zoning for Old Cloverdale should take effect in mid March now that the Montgomery City Council approved the zoning change Tuesday night.

The change, which has been in the works for years, was neighborhood-driven and is intended to preserve the character of the historic Montgomery neighborhood.

Full Article Here
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  #4916  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 12:57 AM
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Will this stop the rumored Walgreen's that was said to have wanted to locate on the old Cloverdale school corner? Or will it just modify it to look like they do in the small towns north of Chicago? Those towns remind me of Old Cloverdale and they can be tastefully done to blend in nicely.
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  #4917  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bystander1 View Post
Will this stop the rumored Walgreen's that was said to have wanted to locate on the old Cloverdale school corner? Or will it just modify it to look like they do in the small towns north of Chicago? Those towns remind me of Old Cloverdale and they can be tastefully done to blend in nicely.
SmartCode doesn't restrict what business or industry locates somewhere, just the form it's in. So, in theory, a chemical plant could open up in Cloverdale as long as they conformed. Basically, Walgreens can still build, but they'd have to construct their location in whatever manner the code demands.
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  #4918  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 1:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tredici View Post
SmartCode doesn't restrict what business or industry locates somewhere, just the form it's in. So, in theory, a chemical plant could open up in Cloverdale as long as they conformed. Basically, Walgreens can still build, but they'd have to construct their location in whatever manner the code demands.
Yes, that's true of SmartCode. I'm just wondering if Walgreens will change their mind to build because of the adoption of the new zoning. But it' just a rumor, I know, it's only a rumor...let me make that clear.
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  #4919  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 1:24 AM
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Yes, that's true of SmartCode. I'm just wondering if Walgreens will change their mind to build because of the adoption of the new zoning. But it' just a rumor, I know, it's only a rumor...let me make that clear.
Well, they very well could. Usually, the cost of building a business like Walgreens in a neighborhood like Cloverdale that has adopted SmartCode is enough to keep it out, so the Code winds up working how it was meant to.
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  #4920  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2011, 2:39 PM
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But it' just a rumor, I know, it's only a rumor...let me make that clear.
Thanks for clarifying that! You have no idea the WILDFIRE we had to contend with when this RUMOR initially surfaced!
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