Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

They want to build a 14 lane highway on either Anderson, Macleod, 14th or Glenmore. No matter what option they choose some people are going to lose their homes
.

Seriously? That is f**king ridiculous. 4 lanes on either side is sufficient. Alberta Transportation overbuilds everything.

Or maybe they are just saying this so that whatever solution that does end up being chosen looks good by comparison.

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, if you aren't adding new lanes, just designating a route 'the ring road' is pretty pointless. Adding 8 lanes to Glenmore would take it to 14, and the causeway even higher.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by fusili

Or maybe they are just saying this so that whatever solution that does end up being chosen looks good by comparison.

I kind of got the impression they were trying to sway people towards Option #4. To build over/under Weaselhead.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

It would be nice if there are some public protests as I have a really good idea of something to put on tshirts.

lol...I hope it's not what I think it is

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Well, if you aren't adding new lanes, just designating a route 'the ring road' is pretty pointless. Adding 8 lanes to Glenmore would take it to 14, and the causeway even higher.

Do you not see a 14 lane road as a little excessive in a city of 1 million people?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

I really can't think of too many projects that affect as many people and proceed quietly. Well, I can't think of any recent examples anyway. The GE5 would be the closest that comes to mind. The province just went through a huge fight over transmission lines through farmland.

Err.. I hope you can think of a few things that affect more than 500 people. Property tax increases would be a big one I'd think. Pretty sure they affect more than 500 people a year.

I'm being deliberately flippant, because a 4% tax hike is a tad different than "losing" your house, but the point remains - this is an extremely small, vocal group of people. Nothing more. Imagine if we had this reaction for every city decision - the city would be paralyzed. Want to cut back police services? Surely more than 500 people are affected by that. Want to change how snow removal is done? Unless you're only changing 2 blocks, more than 500 people are affected. Etc.

It's stupid and frustrating and is why stuff just never gets done sometimes. The WLRT was the same. We end up spending billions extra on all these accommodations for a tiny group of people, and don't have the money to finish things or do them right.

And we wonder why it takes 15 months to replace a concrete apron on 7th Ave, and 4 years to build an LRT station in the suburbs. Yet the protest in this city is over a measly $25m bridge.It's maddening.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

Do you not see a 14 lane road as a little excessive in a city of 1 million people?

I hope like hell the "14 lane" idea is forward-thinking. Which hasn't been done for this road so far, which is exactly why we're in this mess in the first place.

50 years ago I'm sure someone said "do you not see a ring road as a little excessive for a city of 200,000 people?" and that's why Lakeview was built as is.

[You Need A Thneed]

The 14 lane road wouldn't be for a city of 1 million, it would be for a city of 2 million. The province wants to plan ahead a little bit so they only have to do this process once in the next 100 years.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I hope like hell the "14 lane" idea is forward-thinking. Which hasn't been done for this road so far, which is exactly why we're in this mess in the first place.

50 years ago I'm sure someone said "do you not see a ring road as a little excessive for a city of 200,000 people?" and that's why Lakeview was built as is.

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

The 14 lane road wouldn't be for a city of 1 million, it would be for a city of 2 million. The province wants to plan ahead a little bit so they only have to do this process once in the next 100 years.

Originally Posted by fusili

Do you not see a 14 lane road as a little excessive in a city of 1 million people?

Important to remember that we are talking about two different things. The province wanted to build the ultimate stage of the south west ring road through the reserve up to 16 lanes, which would carry both 8 lanes for Stoney Trail and 8 lanes for the as yet unnamed, largely unplanned outer ring road called by the province the Regional Ring Road.

As far as I know, all the alternative plans only consider the 8 lanes of Stoney Trail, not the 16 lanes of the late century ultimate build out fantasy. Since the Stoney project is about adding capacity, it only makes sense to be adding lanes, I would imagine almost as 'express lanes', making the existing freeways 'collectors'. Adding the existing 6 lanes of Glenmore to the 8 lanes of the Stoney build out and you get at least one section of 14 lane freeway with any of the alternatives on the table, including the 37th Street alignment.

[Mazrim]

My favorite part of these open houses was the people going up to the reps and saying "aren't you just making all this material to make it sound like 37th is the best when it isn't?" and they'd have to explain for the 500th time that they did the same analysis, same cost estimates, same reports for every option. Just because 37th came out as the best doesn't mean it's a conspiracy...but I guess these days anything people don't like is a conspiracy at all.

I'm about ready to stop reading stuff about the SWRR. After the open house, I've had enough of listening to these people complain. I've made my opinion known and it only makes me more frustrated to hear this stuff, so it's time to just accept that it will forever be contested by some ignorant person and pretend it wasn't going to happen in the first place.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

My favorite part of these open houses was the people going up to the reps and saying "aren't you just making all this material to make it sound like 37th is the best when it isn't?" and they'd have to explain for the 500th time that they did the same analysis, same cost estimates, same reports for every option. Just because 37th came out as the best doesn't mean it's a conspiracy...but I guess these days anything people don't like is a conspiracy at all.

I'm about ready to stop reading stuff about the SWRR. After the open house, I've had enough of listening to these people complain. I've made my opinion known and it only makes me more frustrated to hear this stuff, so it's time to just accept that it will forever be contested by some ignorant person and pretend it wasn't going to happen in the first place.

It should have been really obvious from the start that the 37th Street route would be the best all things considered, IMO.

Under any option, there would be a large new bridge over the reservior, whether it be in the weaselhead, or by the existing causeway.

It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that adding all the ring road traffic to existing busy roads would require those existing roads to become a lot wider than they currently are.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

The SW portion of the Ring Road will not be built any day soon, because most of the resistance will come from Lakeview residents and the province said they will not do anything without the approval from Lakeview...making them a STAKEHOLDER. The bold and underline is for Mr. Moncton Golden Flames

so new information comes out 2 months after i state my opinion, and you're acting tough about it? bravo sir, bravo.

this means, at the time i made my comment, i was right. only now are the residents of lakeview getting special recognition for the project.

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

It should have been really obvious from the start that the 37th Street route would be the best all things considered, ....

Absolutely! For me it`s just down to how many homes in Lakeview need to go AND how many homes in Glamorgan need to go. I think the best design would be about an equal number in each. That would allow the curve from Glenmore to 37th to be at a design speed high enough to still call this thing a freeway. Also it would mitigate the supposedly extreme effect on Lakeview -

But with 37th Street S.W. a likely choice, as many as 500 houses could be standing in the way, said Duncan Kent, president of the Lakeview Community Association.

"So it would be about 20 per cent or one-fifth of the community that would be lost," he said.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I hope like hell the "14 lane" idea is forward-thinking. Which hasn't been done for this road so far, which is exactly why we're in this mess in the first place.

50 years ago I'm sure someone said "do you not see a ring road as a little excessive for a city of 200,000 people?" and that's why Lakeview was built as is.

Ok, I'll change my wording. Do you see anypoint to a 14 lane highway for a city of 4 million people? At some point we need to understand that simply increasing road capacity doesn't help. And the Lakeview issue isn't about the size of the road, it is about the location of it. You can't fit anything between those houses and the reserve.

[MalcolmTucker]

In Lakeview I count less than 90 homes in an 85m corridor pushed right against the boundary, plus two phases of the apartments right at 37th and Glenmore. Plenty of homes loose back lane access, and part of their backyards, but the number even with those is below 200. Maybe 80 apartments on top of that.

To get to 500 homes he must be thinking a full corridor including the future hypothetical outer ring road.

A map with 85 m corridors:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&h...820091103928423336.00049d0d11b5f061fc7ee

Do you see anypoint to a 14 lane highway for a city of 4 million people?

Depends where and what we are asking it to do. Certainly I wouldn't want to just add a lane to Glenmore and 14th St and call it a day. Cars aren't bad in and of themselves, and stopping the project won't eliminate the trips that this project is destined to serve.

[You Need A Thneed]

You can't just do that, though, as cars would have to slow down to 30km/h to make it around the corner. You have to cut into the community somewhere to get the required radius.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

You can't just do that, though, as cars would have to slow down to 30km/h to make it around the corner. You have to cut into the community somewhere to get the required radius.

There is a reason the boxes don't touch! I don't think anyone would try to put a full speed curve on it anyways - the extra costs vs the benefits wouldn't be worth it.

[fusili]

I know I come across as "anti-road" sometimes, but there is being anti-road and there is questioning the need for a 16 lane road around the SW of the city. 6 lanes going from 37th to Marquis of Lorne makes sense to me. 16 doesn't.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by fusili

I know I come across as "anti-road" sometimes, but there is being anti-road and there is questioning the need for a 16 lane road around the SW of the city. 6 lanes going from 37th to Marquis of Lorne makes sense to me. 16 doesn't.

Really? Right now the 9 lane Causeway is unable to handle the traffic loads crossing the Glenmore Resevoir. What it needs is 12 lanes. I'm not sure how the thought of 4-5 core lanes and 2-3 collector lanes per direction is such a far-fetched idea 50-100 years from now where the inner and outer SW ring roads combine. Just think about how that kind of highway works. Use the 401 as an example. I don't see the confusion in the methodology at all.

[bookermorgan]

How much space does a ROW need? By my rough adding there is a 31.4m Road Allowance there already.
Add another 36.6m when you demo the houses fronting 37th.
68m

If we have shoulder 3.05m (10ft), 5 lanes @ 3.66m (12ft), shoulder 3.05m (10ft), median 3.05m (10ft), shoulder 3.05m (10ft), 5 lanes @ 3.66m (12ft), shoulder 3.05m = 51.85m

Am I way off here?