Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Stang

I would like to see the impact on Lakeview and the Weaselhead kept to a minimum, of course, but I don't see another way to do it, realistically. Poor planning a long time ago is the culprit, but at some point we have to move on and push ahead.

This is exactly the culprit. Calgary really needs to start and think long-term. Reserving ROWs for road and transit infrastructure may look excessive in the short term, but the benefits long term are huge. Sadly this isn't the case.

[Stang]

Originally Posted by fusili

This is exactly the culprit. Calgary really needs to start and think long-term. Reserving ROWs for road and transit infrastructure may look excessive in the short term, but the benefits long term are huge. Sadly this isn't the case.

I think that they've gotten a lot better at it in the past 20 or so years. The hilariously-huge median on Harvest Hills Boulevard, for example, will undoubtedly look brilliant when it eventually gets put to use for a C-Train. Getting it to that location will be the hard part!

[freeweed]

I think we're already at the point where the city/province has to step up and say "OK, 1 million people take precedence over 500, tough shit, this is how virtually all civic decisions work". This happens every day. I could bitch and moan about a thousand things that happen every year to someone else's benefit but don't help me at all (or negatively affect me); instead I understand how society works.

I'm really not sure why specific issues like this become such a huge point of contention, when there are plenty more than just proceed quietly. Louder NIMBYs in Lakeview maybe?

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Stang

I think that they've gotten a lot better at it in the past 20 or so years. The hilariously-huge median on Harvest Hills Boulevard, for example, will undoubtedly look brilliant when it eventually gets put to use for a C-Train. Getting it to that location will be the hard part!

Yup - I look at that median from my window everyday and envy the next owner of my house

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Stang

I think that they've gotten a lot better at it in the past 20 or so years. The hilariously-huge median on Harvest Hills Boulevard, for example, will undoubtedly look brilliant when it eventually gets put to use for a C-Train. Getting it to that location will be the hard part!

Surely some dipshit will try to argue that the city is taking away his/her "park" when that happens.

[Stang]

My wife and I were in an accident (damn - just realized that'll be 10 years ago soon!) at Harvest Hills Boulevard and Harvest Oak Gate. Someone didn't think that they'd wait at the stop sign and we promptly smoked them as they pulled out abruptly and wrote our own car off in the process. The funny thing is, because of the width of the median, they only had to look in one direction for traffic. Somehow they didn't see us.

And my wife was driving, so speed definitely wasn't a factor.

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Stang

My wife and I were in an accident (damn - just realized that'll be 10 years ago soon!) at Harvest Hills Boulevard and Harvest Oak Gate. Someone didn't think that they'd wait at the stop sign and we promptly smoked them as they pulled out abruptly and wrote our own car off in the process. The funny thing is, because of the width of the median, they only had to look in one direction for traffic. Somehow they didn't see us.

And my wife was driving, so speed definitely wasn't a factor.

They added lights at that intersection some years ago, so it is not an issue now. I live like five houses from there (yes it hasn't sold yet - ugh) and that's where we get the 301 to get to DT speedily.

[Ferreth]

I've been looking at the options being considered and am wondering if the province might consider a phased version of options 4 & 5?

You would build option 5, to a lower standard:
- 6 lane 14th w. interchanges on 14th, & Anderson 14th w. EB>NB flyover
- Leave lights on Anderson section & 37th St.
- No added lanes on Glenmore causeway
- Upgraded Glenmore east of Crowchild to basic freeway standard, 6 lanes.
- 37th St. extended to 22X, possibly some upgrades on existing section

Phase 2 would be to build route 4, being able to salvage at least some of the Glenmore upgrades & the 37th St. upgrades. It's not like 14th St. was not going to happen sooner or later, so those upgrades wouldn't be a total waste.

In the meanwhile, buy property on an opportunity basis along the 37th St ROW, with a new negotiation with the reserve for a strip as a second possibility.

The disadvantage is larger long term cost to the Province, since they'd be paying for more of the cost 14th St/Glenmore upgrades the city might have paid for themselves eventually, and 14th St. might end up overbuilt for the area, although perhaps an LRT could replace 2 lanes of 14th after a route 4 ring road opened. Another possibility is that route 4 never gets built, since the phase 1 workings never get bad enough to warrant the political hit.

The advantage is better current political optics, somewhat of a ring road in the meanwhile, lower immediate costs (not sure about that one, but again, a lot of this is going to be built in the next 20 years anyways), and at least something gets built, which as other have pointed out, may not happen with the current fiscal/political climate. Oh, I also see no further land impact, as no upgrades on 14th/Glenmore would require extra land.

[UofC.engineer]

Just came back from the Acadia open house today. All I can tell you is this project is a mess...

They want to build a 14 lane highway on either Anderson, Macleod, 14th or Glenmore. No matter what option they choose some people are going to lose their homes

There were some people handing out a petition and giving away "Save Glenmore" shirts, getting ready to put up a big fight. Here is an article on it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/st...hwest-ring-road-open-house-reaction.html

The SW portion of the Ring Road will not be built any day soon, because most of the resistance will come from Lakeview residents and the province said they will not do anything without the approval from Lakeview...making them a STAKEHOLDER. The bold and underline is for Mr. Moncton Golden Flames


When I was filling out a comment sheet I was tempted to write "WHERE WILL THE CHILDREN PLAY" but I decided to take it seriously.

[MalcolmTucker]

From that story:

"There are not very many really pristine natural areas in Calgary," said Duncan Kent, president of the Lakeview Community Association.

There are tonnes of natural areas in Calgary compared to many cities, and to be frank, the Weaselhead is far from natural. Doesn't make it less sensitive than bald prairie, but all the talk like we are planning to pave paradise to put up a parking lot is a little ridiculous.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Well, for the deal on the reserve, the province wanted a corridor big enough to handle all future utility and transportation needs. So 16 lanes of freeway, a couple high tension power lines and such. It was the provinces position that they didn't want to have to go through this all again in 50 years when they needed more land for the outer ring road.

Realistically would a 16 lane freeway ever be built? The strip of land between Oakridge/Cedarbrae is wide enough for an 8 lane freeway and if the power lines are ever really needed, it might be worth the while to bury them for the stretch between 90th and Anderson. There is a huge difference between planning for all future contingencies and realistic future contingencies.

There seem to be too many competing interests for this project to stand any change of succeeding. The City seems reluctant to take on the NIMBYs and the Province seems to be living in a SimCity fantasy world.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

From that story:

There are tonnes of natural areas in Calgary compared to many cities, and to be frank, the Weaselhead is far from natural. Doesn't make it less sensitive than bald prairie, but all the talk like we are planning to pave paradise to put up a parking lot is a little ridiculous.

I agree, it has only been a part time wetland since the 30's when the dam was built.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I agree, it has only been a part time wetland since the 30's when the dam was built.

Speaking from my BSc in Ecology training, its a fucking RESERVOIR. Nothing natural about the yo-yo water levels and delta structure here. Sure, it has some good bird habitat, and a few plant species that are rare, but that ain't the issue. The locals are going to grasp at any straw to try to sway public opinion against this project.

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

From that story:

There are tonnes of natural areas in Calgary compared to many cities, and to be frank, the Weaselhead is far from natural. Doesn't make it less sensitive than bald prairie, but all the talk like we are planning to pave paradise to put up a parking lot is a little ridiculous.

They make it sound like they are going to pave over all of Glenmore reservoir. If I was them I worry more about how they do the bridge. I hope they don't do it like how the currently like for Glenmore trail. There you can see they bridged half the gap with dirt and half bridge.
http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=50.995499,-114.09865&spn=0.005605,0.016512&t=h&z=17

[Stang]

The Weselhead is a nice area, but as mentioned, it has only existed for 70 or 80 years in its current form. I'd hate to lose it though, but I think that a compromise can be made.

Although it wouldn't be cheap, a nice bridge with as few supports as possible could span the natural areas and allow wildlife, water, and recreational activities to continue unimpeded below.

[srperrycgy]

I've been trying to stir the pot on Twitter on the SWRR on the pro side and I strongly suggest everyone try and do the same.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by Stang

The Weselhead is a nice area, but as mentioned, it has only existed for 70 or 80 years in its current form. I'd hate to lose it though, but I think that a compromise can be made.

Although it wouldn't be cheap, a nice bridge with as few supports as possible could span the natural areas and allow wildlife, water, and recreational activities to continue unimpeded below.

I think a final bridge would have a similar feel for someone walking through the weasel head like this example, Bowness Park. Honestly, the diminished quality of the park really ought to be pretty low on people's minds. It's not like we are talking 50th Ave / Sandy Beach, where the freeway would go right through the middle of the park - what it is going to do is make the view from the lake shore looking west not so nice looking on a pier bridge crossing the lake delta. It might help a bit if the bridge design were to be something special, like a suspension bridge, perhaps?

[Blue 24]

If they Did do a bridge, they could have a Design contest to have most environmentally friendly, least intrusive design. maybe like the Viaduc de Millau which had to have little impact on the valley it was going over.

I thought i heard on the news that the Provence likes the tunnel Bridge idea best too?

[DizzyEdge]

It would be nice if there are some public protests as I have a really good idea of something to put on tshirts.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I think we're already at the point where the city/province has to step up and say "OK, 1 million people take precedence over 500, tough shit, this is how virtually all civic decisions work". This happens every day. I could bitch and moan about a thousand things that happen every year to someone else's benefit but don't help me at all (or negatively affect me); instead I understand how society works.

I'm really not sure why specific issues like this become such a huge point of contention, when there are plenty more than just proceed quietly. Louder NIMBYs in Lakeview maybe?

I really can't think of too many projects that affect as many people and proceed quietly. Well, I can't think of any recent examples anyway. The GE5 would be the closest that comes to mind. The province just went through a huge fight over transmission lines through farmland.

I wonder how this issue will be seen in the decades to come. It could be built and, like Crowchild, no one will care. It could be built and we'll remember it as an error. It could be canceled and lauded like the efforts to keep Inglewood from being paved over. I imagine in the past there were people bemoaning the few who stopped the downtown penetrator from benefitting the many.