Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

The Parade was PACKED for that show. I left a bit early because my legs were about to freeze off and the crowd stretched all the way back to the church, plus there would have been more people inside at the Dome.

I think the crowd was the result of a perfect storm of well-known regional band, central location of the Parade, and being a free show tied to a decently-sized event. Hard to know if a comparable crowd would show up for a stadium show in the winter if said stadium was further afield or if the show wasn't free, though for a popular act I think it'd be very possible.

I think this is a very real concern. Since Halifax has the Garrison Grounds which can hold 30,000 people for concerts, this seems like a natural site in a central location http://www.pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/ns/halifax/visit/visit7/visit7k.aspx . If free concerts were held at Shannon Park would such events still attract as many people?

It is too bad the Wanderers Grounds couldn't be used for a natural bowl type of stadium similar to the Yale Bowl but on a smaller scale:

This is the Yale Bowl:
(source: http://sports257.blogspot.com/2009/04/top-10-stadiums.html )


As far as a stadium design goes, this is about as simple as you can get, but it is still considered to be a historic landmark in the US and a beautiful stadium. The Rose Bowl is a similar design and was based on the Yale Bowl design.

But a better layout is the new Stanford Stadium design (based on distance from the field and washroom/concessions layout):


As far as a stadium design goes, I think the Stanford design is my personal favour. It has lots of landscaping and uses the ground as part of the structure.

I think the Events Nova Scotia design was similar to the Stanford design, except the Stanford Stadium design was built at a much larger scale.
Brettinhalifax did an expanded version of the Events Nova Scotia design:

Except I would like it better if the sideline seats extended up farther since there would be more concourse room and more room for temporary expansion in the endzones.

[CorbeauNoir]

That Yale stadium looks quite impressive. You'd think in a city as hilly as Halifax you'd be able to find a slope you could build part of a stadium like that into.

[Halifax Privateer]

I'm with you Fenwick. If there is room; I believe that without a dought this is the best location for a stadium. If I'm not mistaken there were discussions regarding this sight (mid 80's to early 90's) possibly in conjuntion with the 1994 CWG bid. The Sanford stadium design at that location would be awesome!!

[Keith P.]

Is the Garrison Grounds big enough if you used one side of the Citadel for seating? Let's forget the arguments against it from a historic site perspective for the moment. I just don't know if there is enough space there.

I think the point about the GBS concert drawing as many as it did because of the location downtown is an excellent one.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Is the Garrison Grounds big enough if you used one side of the Citadel for seating? Let's forget the arguments against it from a historic site perspective for the moment. I just don't know if there is enough space there.

I think the point about the GBS concert drawing as many as it did because of the location downtown is an excellent one.

I pasted the Lehigh Goodman Stadium on the side of the Citadel several months ago but I didn't post it because I knew that it wouldn't be allowed (I think that you are thinking about it at 90° to what I have show below). A Canadian football field is longer than a US field but it gives a frame of reference. I think that Bell Road would have to be reconfigured. However, if Bell Road were reconfigured then a stadium would fit at the Wanderers Grounds.

[Halifax Privateer]

Woops! I made a mistake on my earlier post, confusing the Garrison Grounds with the Wanderers Grounds. I believe the Wanderers Grounds would be perfect for a Stanford type stadium, space permitting.

[q12]

MacKay backs stadium for Halifax

Project 'has to be done in balance,' federal minister cautions
By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Mon, Feb 21 - 6:20 PM

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9019941.html

The idea of a stadium in the metro Halifax area has a backer in Defence Minister Peter MacKay, the federal minister responsible for Nova Scotia.

MacKay said Monday that he thinks a stadium would help grow the economy.

“We have to be able to justify this to taxpayers, it has to be done in way that doesn’t jeopardize other projects,” he said Monday after an announcement at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport.

“It all has to be done in balance, but is it something that I personally am committed to? Yes it is.”

MacKay said he has had informal discussions about a stadium with Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly, Premier Darrell Dexter, and others.

MacKay has said federal land at Shannon Park in Dartmouth would be a good site for a stadium. Dexter said the decision would have to include an analysis of things such as traffic patterns and accessibility, but noted the site was considered as a stadium location during planning for the Commonwealth Games bid, which was abandoned in 2007.

Halifax regional council this month approved a $100,000 feasibility study on a multi-use stadium. A stadium is estimated to cost $30 million to $60 million.

It would be a requirement if Halifax ends up being one of the host cities for 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup. First, Canada would have to win hosting rights next month, then Halifax would have to be selected.

MacKay said he saw the excitement around Moncton hosting a CFL game, and the affect it had on the economy there, and even regionally.

Last year’s game between the Toronto Argonauts and Edmonton Eskimos drew 25,000 fans, and sold out in hours. The CFL confirmed last week it will hold another game there in September, with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats playing the Calgary Stampeders.

Moncton also hosted the world junior track and field championships last year.

“We don’t have a stadium that will accommodate the type of international events, and even the type of local events, in the future that we need, so I feel very strongly that this is a project that we should be pursuing and working on collectively,” MacKay said.

MacKay said funding for a stadium and downtown Halifax convention centre isn’t an either/or proposition. He said contributions must be justified to taxpayers.

The province and city want Ottawa to contribute $47 million to a convention centre. MacKay said federal officials are still vetting the business case and whether it makes economic sense.

He said the due diligence includes looking at how convention centres are doing elsewhere, and whether the Halifax project would increase the competitiveness of the region.

“We’ll decide on the best interests of the entire province whether this is a project that the Canadian government will invest in,” MacKay said.


Fantastic News!

[Keith P.]

Fenwick16, thanks for that. You're correct, I was thinking about it at 90 degrees to what you show. If it was turned that way it appears there would be plenty of space for a stadium there. You could have a half-bowl on one slope of the hill that could reduce construction costs quite a bit I expect. That little random parking lot there on Sackville St. across from CBC needs to disappear, BTW, and would make a fine entrance/concession/washroom area.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

Woops! I made a mistake on my earlier post, confusing the Garrison Grounds with the Wanderers Grounds. I believe the Wanderers Grounds would be perfect for a Stanford type stadium, space permitting.

You were right before, I was thinking of the Wanderers Grounds. I really like that location.

I also drew one on the Citadel several months ago even though I know that it would be sacrilege to suggest such I thing. I mainly just did the one on the Citadel for fun though. PS: I will delete the image now, so that it won't draw too much attention.

PS: I just hope that during the stadium location study, locations other than Shannon Park will be seriously considered. However, I wouldn't seriously suggest the Citadel, although I think the Wanderers Grounds should be considered for a stadium that would blend in with its surroundings.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

MacKay backs stadium for Halifax

Project 'has to be done in balance,' federal minister cautions
By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Mon, Feb 21 - 6:20 PM

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9019941.html


MacKay said Monday that he thinks a stadium would help grow the economy.

“We have to be able to justify this to taxpayers, it has to be done in way that doesn’t jeopardize other projects,” he said Monday after an announcement at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport.

“It all has to be done in balance, but is it something that I personally am committed to? Yes it is.”
....

Thanks for finding this story q12. Yes, it is great news that MP MacKay is committed to a stadium in the Halifax area.

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

PS: I just hope that during the stadium location study, locations other than Shannon Park will be seriously considered. However, I wouldn't seriously suggest the Citadel, although I think the Wanderers Grounds should be considered for a stadium that would blend in with its surroundings.

How about Gorsebrook field? It's not as touchy as the Citadel, it's way more accessible and central than Shannon Park or Exhibition park. It's more ready than Windsor Park. I know it's been mentioned here, I hope it gets mentioned when the study is being done. One huge problem would be the reaction of south end residents.

[musicman]

Good luck on that one... A large sports/concert venue across the street from the largest children's hospital east of montreal... As much as i would love it there i have a feeling that it's not going to happen..

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for finding this story q12. Yes, it is great news that MP MacKay is committed to a stadium in the Halifax area.

This is great news, and i believe is the direction the federal government is headed with halifax projects. Don't be surprised to see this project be given funds and the convention centre turned down.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by sdm

This is great news, and i believe is the direction the federal government is headed with halifax projects. Don't be surprised to see this project be given funds and the convention centre turned down.

I dunno with all the election talk around - I'm sure they'd be happy to give money to get votes anywhere!

While I think the discussion that Fenwick and Keith are having about a dt stadium is good and I like the idea - I wonder if there are rules about the common in terms of how it must operate? Isn't there a commons charter or something like that? Doesn't the Dartmouth Common have something like that too?

My only worry is that while it may be a good spot - there may be rules or laws that prevent it? Wasn't this the main issue that the 'friends of the commons' had with the concerts? You were using 'public land' for private profit? Wouldn't this be the same thing?

Personally - if there was some sort of law about that - I'd be happy to see it change for a stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

While I think the discussion that Fenwick and Keith are having about a dt stadium is good and I like the idea - I wonder if there are rules about the common in terms of how it must operate? Isn't there a commons charter or something like that? Doesn't the Dartmouth Common have something like that too?

My only worry is that while it may be a good spot - there may be rules or laws that prevent it? Wasn't this the main issue that the 'friends of the commons' had with the concerts? You were using 'public land' for private profit? Wouldn't this be the same thing?

I don't think that a stadium would be allowed on the Halifax Commons or Dartmouth Commons. The Wanderers Grounds seem to be a different story though since it has been used for Rugby for many years, and I seem to remember seeing some spectator stands at that location before.

[Northend Guy]

From the news 95.7 website:


Pro-heritage group, MacKay cheering for Halifax stadium
Desiree Finhert Feb 22, 2011 05:53:04 AM

Stadium to go ahead with or without World Cup: report
Halifax's proposal to build a multi-use stadium is gaining unexpected support from a pro-heritage group which would rather see a sporting venue than a new convention centre built in the city's downtown.

Allan Robertson, with the Save the View campaign, has written a letter to Defence Minister Peter MacKay asking the federal government to help fund the project, explaining the three reasons why a stadium is a better investment.

"First, HRM already has a convention centre and we don't have a stadium. This convention centre, by the way, is the largest one in Atlantic Canada," Robertson told the Rick Howe Show Monday.

"Second reason, the cost of a new stadium would be much less than for the convention centre," he said, adding a new convention centre could cost $300 million.

Halifax Regional Council has approved a $100-thousand feasibility study on a venue which could cost between $30 million and $60 million. Robertson says the project overall looks like a better financial bet.

"The third reason is a new stadium wouldn't lose money, probably," he said. "There's no question. If you do the analysis, it's going to cost the province $5 million a year and it's going to cost HRM the same amount for about the next 25 years."

Robertson says he received a reply from MacKay's assistant saying no decision has been made but that they are taking everybody's opinions into consideration.

The group's stance comes as MacKay voices his own endorsement for the build.

Nova Scotia's representative in the federal cabinet says he's a big supporter of sports and the proposed facility.

"We don't have a stadium that will accommodate the type of international events, and even the type of local events, in the future that we need. So I feel very strongly that this is a project that we should be working on and perusing," MacKay told reporters following a funding announcement at the Halifax Stanfield International Airport Monday.

He said it wouldn't hurt Canada's bid to host the FIFA Women's World Cup if we had such a facility in Halifax. But he adds whether the federal government financially supports a stadium or a convention centre is not an either-or decision.

"We have to be able to justify this to taxpayers," said MacKay. "It has to be done in a way that doesn't jeopardize other projects, if you know what I mean. It all has to be done in balance. But is (the stadium) something that I am personally committed to, yes it is."

MacKay says he's already had informal talks with Mayor Peter Kelly and Premier Darrell Dexter about the proposed stadium.

Hell almost froze over...I read that STV supported a stadium...and then I read that their support for a stadium is only a means to an end - basically that it is a way to divert federal dollars from the CC. Go figure. Well at least there is support for the stadium. Keep hoping that there will be $ for both!

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

It seems to me that the list we came up with of 'easy' sites, was something like this:

• Shannon Park;
• Dartmouth Common;
• Bedford 'Common';
• Exhibition Park;
• Bayers Lake.

That's the only list I can recall we came up with many months ago.

Not sure of the terms used on this list.... do you mean...
Shannon Park
Dartmouth Crossing/Burnside
Mainland Commons
Exhibition Park
Bayers Lake

???????

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I don't think that a stadium would be allowed on the Halifax Commons or Dartmouth Commons. The Wanderers Grounds seem to be a different story though since it has been used for Rugby for many years, and I seem to remember seeing some spectator stands at that location before.

I know that we have all gone over this so many times....a Stadium location is a very difficult issue.....and very controversial.
So......I'll throw this out there for all to consider ......

HRM is much larger than the peninsula of Halifax.....and any peninsula location would not only have huge traffic/transportation issues but likely great opposition from neighbouring residential areas.
Any time a large event (+30,000) has occurred on the peninsula in the past it generally has been a one time type of event....so short term issues...(Pope visit, concerts on the commons etc etc)
Unless there were huge infrastructure funds to change streets and routing of traffic, shielding residential areas off....I can only envision a path of least resistance, being an off peninsula location.

FIRE AWAY!

[ATL Stadium]

Of the sites that are currently being bantered about....there a few that I think would be the best of the "doable" ones....

a) Dartmouth Crossing area - available now...cheap acquisition, no deconstruction, highway/double lane access, no residential disturbance....weekend/night events, low normal traffic interference.

b) Shannon Park - excellent vantage point, available now, possible high remediation cost, some deconstruction costs, additional costs for highway bridge access, small residential interference.

c) Mainland Commons - available cheap location, needs better 102 highway access, not a bad vantage point if made visible from the 102, small residential interference, no deconstruction, 102 would be plugged on event day.

d) Wanders Grounds - available cheap location, terrible road access, great vantage point for Hotels/Restaurants/Bars, transportation issues, site would be very tight but doable, possible reconfigure Sackville St, Bell Rd to include the Garrison Grounds, Bengal Lancers and NS Museum parking lot., possible Hospital disturbance,

[Coleharbouring]

Hey gang, just joined....neat forum.

I think in order to tackle the issue you need to make a list of things important to a stadium.

1) I think traffic is a big factor. I used to go to games at Foxboro, now Gilette, when I live in Boston a couple years ago. Getting into and out of that place is a freakin nightmare. For this reason I suggest an outlying area and my vote here is for Dartmouth Crossing. Lots of space, close to downtown and the airport, lots of room to develop, close to major highways.

2) Support. Can we support a team? And I am not going to google any stats, just speak on what I think to be true. Yes I think we can. The CFL is what, 5-6-ish months. August, September, October, great tailgaiting weather. BBQ outside the stadium. Would invoke an even stronger sense of community, along with cheering for the team. I think HRM, Hants, South Shore, Nothern Nova Scotia....I think we have the population to justify and thrive. It would also promote more kids interested in the sport and that is a good thing too.

3) Financial Support. Can't speak too much on this topic. I do think a funding model that involves a heavy tax on citizens will shine a negative light on the project. As much private funding as possible is required. It will be profitable no doubt, the commitment from busienss needs to be there and they will make their profits to be sure.

4) Design. I am a big fan of that Stanford Stadium. At 50,000 is seems like a very forward thinking capacity goal. Would you fill it for the "Hitmen vs the Eskimo's" regular season game. Probably not. But there are other fish to fry here such as concerts and a possible Grey Cup bid...how exciting that would be!

That's all I can think of right now. I acknowledge the obstacles however if it were easy it would have been done by now. A lot of good things in life require a lot of effort. This project will require a lot of effort however Halifax is more than ready, it has been since the 80's.

Let's have our city showcase our stadium and our statium showcase our city....