Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[squeezied]

Am I the only one who's shocked that 75% is already sold? That's definitely wonderful news but I want to see some proof!

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ Well that's good news. I have no issue with investors, Asian or otherwise, buying into the Olympic Village.

They're not investors; they're speculators. Anybody who knows markets understands the difference.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

They're not investors; they're speculators. Anybody who knows markets understands the difference.

pardon my ignorance. but what's the difference?

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by Vancity

pardon my ignorance. but what's the difference?

Google is your friend...but try this:http://caps.fool.com/blogs/investment-vs-speculation/24827

Key Point: To qualify as an investment, a purchase must be (1) based on thorough analysis, promise (2) safety of principal and (3) a satisfactory return. Any purchase not meeting these requirements is speculation. It's important to remember Graham's distinction because when one confuses speculation for investment, trouble is soon to follow.

[SpongeG]

in other words investors have done their research and know they will get a return where as speculators take the risk that it will pay off hopefully

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

They're not investors; they're speculators. Anybody who knows markets understands the difference.

Either way it is good news that so many have sold so quickly at the lower price, the faster CoV can get away from this place the better. That said, hopefully even if they are speculators/investors that most at least are occupied by somebody.

[Yume-sama]

I'm sure the rental market will get quite flooded, so there will finally be people, yay!

There are several dozen in Capitol available for rent and only half the building is complete

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Vancity

pardon my ignorance. but what's the difference?

Speculators are the people who are howling mad that the comparable units around them are being sold off at prices that are as much as 50% lower than what they paid for their unit.

Investors are the people who understand that prices will come back as the Olympic Village gets filled up with condo owners, the surrounding area condos get finished & filled up, and the neighbourhood becomes a desirable place to live.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Either way it is good news that so many have sold so quickly at the lower price, the faster CoV can get away from this place the better. That said, hopefully even if they are speculators/investors that most at least are occupied by somebody.

This just means that 75% of the current block of units have an offer, which is no guarantee that the offer will be accepted or the sale will be finalized.
Many things can happen to make a deal go sideways.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Either way it is good news that so many have sold so quickly at the lower price, the faster CoV can get away from this place the better. That said, hopefully even if they are speculators/investors that most at least are occupied by somebody.

Doesn't CoV still own the land under the buildings?
If I remember correctly, this was one of the reasons Millennium had to go to the Fortress hedge fund in NY for financing. Banks with their tightened lending standards during The Great Recession wouldn't touch the project because CoV was leasing the land to Millennium to build the Athletes Village.
I don't recall that Millennium paid any of the lease, only around $200 Million of the CoV's construction loan.

I think the CoV still owns the land east & west of the Athletes Village, which will be developed in the future when the market comes back.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Doesn't CoV still own the land under the buildings?
If I remember correctly, this was one of the reasons Millennium had to go to the Fortress hedge fund in NY for financing. Banks with their tightened lending standards during The Great Recession wouldn't touch the project because CoV was leasing the land to Millennium to build the Athletes Village.
I don't recall that Millennium paid any of the lease, only around $200 Million of the CoV's construction loan.

I think the CoV still owns the land east & west of the Athletes Village, which will be developed in the future when the market comes back.

Did not know that but i was meaning the whole fiasco with the Olympic Village condos and CoV being responsible for them.

As for the land leasing, I guess I could understand it if it was just the social units, as then CoV could ensure that as long as the rentals covered the strata costs, mortgage, and related expenses CoV would be happy. As far as I understand it, the other social housing projects are also owned by the CoV or the Province, are they not?

But for the purchased units, part of the costs are for the unit itself as well as that unit's portion of the land costs and common areas so leasing wouldn't make a heck of a lot of sense. Unless leasing the land meant that the unit purchase cost would just be for the unit itself and common areas, reducing initial cost, but that the lease costs would be part of the strata fees. And the leasing costs would have to be enough to recuperate any lost property taxes on the land itself, otherwise CoV is really get screwed long-term. But that doesn't make sense either.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ Well that's good news. I have no issue with investors, Asian or otherwise, buying into the Olympic Village.

agreed it will help level out prices but MOST importantly ... all those units will become rental stock and help fill out the area in the short term. Definitely a good time to be looking for a new apartment to lease or even if its lease renewal time.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Lexie

According to global news it's 75% sold of the first 230 units for sale. And you can tell it's mostly Asian buyers as all the units with 4s in then weren't sold.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=7ZmLQ05ujhCknrBrr79ASrSi4ywI9oou

[jlousa]

The city did own the land under the village as it didn't transfer it over to Millenium in order to maintain control over the project. Out of the ~$700M outstanding it includes about $170 outstanding on the land price, only ~$20M was put down by Millenium. The money the city loaned is going to be completely paid back, where there will be a shortage appears to be on the remaining land price which the city will not fully recover. That all said this project is not a land lease, the owners of the condos will not be paying a land lease as well. The city will end up taking a hit on the land.
The city still has some property in SEFC where it will make up some of that lost money but it's not the property to the east, that belongs/belonged to Translink which as far as I know hasn't been sold yet, but is on the market.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Either way it is good news that so many have sold so quickly at the lower price, the faster CoV can get away from this place the better...

Well, not really as all the City has done is lock in the loss, presumably in an attempt to put the whole thing behind before the next election. Plus, you have people who wish to really be part of a community being shut out by people with cash who have no interest in the community, just looking for a quick buck. Read about how similar behaviour is overinflating Richmond's real-estate market here:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/richmondreview/news/116348674.html

With regards to the lease issue, isn't much of False Creek South's condo stock on land leased from the City?

[sacrifice333]

With regards to the lease issue, isn't much of False Creek South's condo stock on land leased from the City?

NO!

The Village at False Creek was leasehold land by the city during construction because of the Olympic handover factor. It is now like any other freehold strata development, save for the receivership factor.

All other SEFC land, and the Village too, is freehold land.

All SWFC land, ie Granville Island and surrounding area between Burrard and Cambie bridges, is owned and managed by CMHC, ie Government of Canada. That land is leased... some being pre-paid, some being included in monthly strata fees.

Note: A few buildings on the extreme West of False Creek, just East of the Burrard bridge, are freehold.

Note: Some buildings in Vancouver's West End are also leasehold, some pre-paid, some paid monthly, from COV.

[officedweller]

That's right - it's not leasehold property.

The condition that caused Millennium to go to Fortress was a requirement that the City retain title during construction as financial security over the project. That caused the regular banks to balk, as they could not take a mortgage/security interest over the property during construction (i.e. they would not have anything to foreclose on if Millennium when bankrupt).

Hampton Place at UBC is also leasehold.
The first 2 residential towers of the future "BC Place" project at the south foot of Hornby St. (1625 & 1675 Hornby?) are leasehold. That means that if BC Place had been developed by the Province, as originally envisaged, the whole north shore of False Creek may have been leasehold.

[hollywoodnorth]

RE ... OV Retail

apparently URBAN FARE has pulled out as grocery tenant ....

Nestors or Choices seem like the best suited for there IMO....

[SFUVancouver]

I'm a few days early for this round of bi-weekly photos.

SEFC from the Cambie Street Bridge, looking down First Avenue.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Pinnacle Living False Creek from the Cambie Street Bridge.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


James from the Cambie Street Bridge.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Maynards Block.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Maynards Block project detail.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Pinnacle Living False Creek from Second and Yukon.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

Pinnacle Living False Creek from Second and Crowe Street

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

More of the masonry/stone panels have been added and dark spandrel panels also help this facade quite a bit.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


James is nearly at grade.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


The Olympic Village / Millennium Water / Village on False Creek was hopping today. There were people exploring the park, walking the streets with cameras and sales brochures, and lots of parked cars.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

As I said, lots of parked cars.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

There was a healthy lineup for the sales centre, which was packed like a B-Line bus, though the photo doesn't really convey this.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

New maps have been put up showing the new sales names for the village.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Demolition/deconstruction work continues on the Opsal Steel heritage building.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


First and Main social housing as seen from Quebec street.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

This is another one of those views that I think will be unrecognizable in a decade or so.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

A couple more of the First and Main supportive housing building.

Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, February 20th, 2011.

[GeeCee]

Thanks for the awesome pictures as usual.