Halifax Stadium Discussion

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Moncton catchment is only higher if you go to a three hour driving radius, but this is not realistic for casual travellers.

A 90 minute drive is far more realistic if you are talking about fans willing to travel to several games a year. This would be about 400,000 people for Moncton and 600,000 people for Halifax.

Again, the 90 minute catchments for Moncton and Halifax only overlap in the Truro area.

I think all of this analysis is great....but once a Stadium is built to attract a CFL owner to place a team here or to attract a new franchise....one of the key numbers will the likely hood of season ticket sales. Every event or game will attract the walk up crowd and those that will travel to any "one" event or game.....but the key for the success of a team (CFL or Soccer) is season tickets and ad revenue. To get to that number an owner will look at the population base within a very small circle around the location, the location itself, tourism, airports, and of course the ability to sell corporate boxes and advertising on game day!
I would be very interested in the numbers for successful a CFL operation. I'd love to see Winnipeg's numbers.!!!! I think Rider Nation size wise would be great but they are a phenom! and would be a difficult comparison. Montreal is running a winning team in a small stadium....and have the luxury of the Big O to use for playoffs and the Grey Cup should they host. Maybe we could look at Bob Young's books and see how the TiCats are doing?

[DigitalNinja]

Gotta remember the 3 hour drive for moncton includes HRM, that is where the most population is

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

Revenue for a CFL team needs to be $15 million broken down something like:

$8 million in ticket sales
$3 million in local corporate sponsorships
$2 million from league sources
$2 million in merchandise/concessions

So average ticket price would need to be around $30 + HST if the team could sell-out a 25,000 seat stadium.

I have no doubt that a team in either Moncton or Halifax could easily achieve the local corporate sponsorships and merchandise. If I look at Halifax (as I said before) Bell Aliant or Eastlink are the first two I can think of. Any of the banks would jump on board I'm sure and I can see the NS Department of Tourism getting on board through Economic Development.

Plus I suspect sales of teamware would be well received in either location. If your calculations of $30 a ticket are correct, that's a pretty great way to spend a Sunday afternoon with the family. I know most of my family would be on board with that - if all the aunts and uncles were in, that's about 100 people. Now just to sell the other 24,900 seats!

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

As much as I warn against using Saskatchewan as a proof that the CFL will work in the Maritimes, there is one big similarity between the Maritimes and Saskatchewan. The CFL is the 800 lb gorilla in SK, and IMO in the Maritimes it would be maybe a 500 lb gorilla.

And IMO when it comes to corporate support, the big dog gets the bone.

In BC, EDM, CGY, MTL and OTT the CFL plays a distant second fiddle to the NHL
In T.O. the Argos get lost behind the Leafs and the Jays.
In Hamilton, the CFL is squeezed from all sides, NHL dreams and the NFL down the road.
In Winnipeg, the CFL is #1, but there are those NHL dreams.

Regina, Moncton or Halifax will never have a higher profile sports team than a CFL franchise.

Requoted for absolute truth!!

The banks would also support a team in Moncton (ie Scotiabank Touchdown Atlantic).

Other big players in the Moncton market for corporate sponsorship would include:
- Molson/Coors
- Irving Moncton (Majesta/Royale, Cavendish, Midland etc.)
- Atlantic Lotto
- Casino NB
- Assumption Life
- Medavie Blue Cross

For both Moncton and Halifax, the CFL would be as good as it's ever going to get. The corporate sponsors would flock to support them. Other city sports teams would have to go pound sand.

Thank God the Moncton Wildcats are already owned by Robert Irving, otherwise in a CFL city they might starve!

[-Harlington-]

Might as well post this here :



Halifax in running to host Indigenous Games

By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Wed, Feb 16 - 4:54 AM


Halifax Regional Municipality is a finalist for the 2014 North American Indigenous Games, an Events Nova Scotia official said Tuesday.

Grant MacDonald said the Halifax region is competing against London, Ont., and Regina for the sports and cultural event. He said a host site should be named in a couple of months.

MacDonald said a letter of intent was submitted to the native organization overseeing the Games last June, and a bid was sent last October.

The Games are scheduled every three years and held in Canada once every six, he said. They have never been hosted in this country east of Winnipeg, MacDonald said.

A host city will be selected after site visits are made by Games planners next month, he said.

"It is a significant, multi-sport event," MacDonald said. "And it has added significance in that it has a very large cultural program that goes along with the Games."

First Nations athletes will be competing in 17 sports, MacDonald said.

Events Nova Scotia backed the bid in support of the Nova Scotia Mi’kmaq Sports Council, said MacDonald.

This isn’t the first time Nova Scotia has been in a position to perhaps host the Games. Back in 1998, event planners in Halifax were looking at snagging the 2008 Indigenous Games.

Those Games took place in Duncan, B.C., on Vancouver Island. More than 4,500 aboriginal athletes from Canada and the United States competed in that event, and tens of thousands welcomed participants during the opening ceremony, a Victoria newspaper reported.

Halifax city hall has sent a letter of support to the organization behind the 2014 Games, the Aboriginal Sport Circle in Ontario, expressing the municipality’s interest in hosting the event.

The Aboriginal Sport Circle’s mission is to "support the revitalization of aboriginal sport," its website said, and "prevent racism and promote gender equity and cultural values" in native and non-native communities.

Although organizers of the 2011 Indigenous Games planned for Milwaukee scrapped that event, the Sport Circle is committed to having the competition in 2014.

"We are certainly bidding on them, with an eye toward them taking place as scheduled," said MacDonald, Events Nova Scotia’s director of major events and community partnerships.

He said it is too early in the process to release a budget for the Games. MacDonald said at some point, the proposal will be brought to Halifax regional council and the provincial government.

"At the appropriate time, it will go to council for their consideration, I would assume," he told The Chronicle Herald.

The Canada Winter Games are taking place in Halifax and at two area ski hills. The event began Friday and ends Feb. 27.

Last week in Halifax, federal and provincial cabinet ministers handling sports, fitness and health matters "highlighted the importance of the North American Indigenous Games" in the development of First Nations sports and competitors.

"Ministers confirmed the base budget for the NAIG funding framework for hosting in 2014 (is) $10 million," said a release issued Friday.

Mayor Peter Kelly told The Chronicle Herald this month the Games don’t require a large stadium. Halifax Regional Municipality could host the event with existing sports infrastructure, he said.

The municipality is hiring a consultant to do a $100,000 feasibility study of the long-term effects of a multi-use stadium. That study will include a public input component.

[halifaxboyns]

For some reason I was coming up blank on other corporate sponsorship names. But I'd agree about Scotiabank or even TD. TD does a lot of corporate sponsorships for events in Halifax.

The list MR provided could mostly be applied in Halifax too, although I think Irving would be a lessor extent. I never thought of Atlantic Loto - good one!

I would agree with Brett - I'm not looking at an atlantic team in light of Saskatoon. I'm looking at it based on my opinion so I think Brett's caution is wise. That being said, seeing the reaction of what happened in Moncton - I think that's planted a seed. A seed that's growing - especially since another Touchdown Atlantic is in the works and I'm sure it would do well.

[-Harlington-]

dont forget keiths and other beer companies
there always there when it comes to events in halifax
not to mention the local radio stations and tv

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

dont forget keiths and other beer companies
there always there when it comes to events in halifax
not to mention the local radio stations and tv

Very good spotting. Definately the beer companies would be onboard.
I was looking at Shannon Park on the HRM GIS and just noticed that there are a significant number of water lots attached to the main Shannon Park Parcel. They are huge - big enough to make the narrows so narrow nothing could get through! I think filling in some of those lots might be helpful in creating a very nice walking area.

Personally - I agree with the article in the Herald about Peter McKay's comments. Shannon is a pretty good spot; although it needs roadway improvements and I know we've beaten to death the fantastic view that would be taken if someone flew up the harbour. But I'd like to see that there would be some mixed use low rise buildings (along the same line as the low rise buildings in Bishop's Landing) along the waters edge with a boardwalk. This way, the stadium is still taller and easily visible but there is a place where people can live and opportunity for commercial on the ground floor. Then you could put the taller buildings either behind the stadium (closer to the rail line) or on the edge by the bridge. When I say tall, I wouldn't suggest much taller than 15 stories because I don't want the buildings creating wind tunnel issues on the stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

MacKay touts Shannon Park as stadium site

By MARY ELLEN MacINTYRE Cape Breton Bureau
Thu, Feb 17 - 4:54 AM
SYDNEY — Shannon Park "would be a natural site" for a stadium in Halifax Regional Municipality, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Wednesday.

The fact that Defence Minister MacKay is touting it as a good location is a point in Shannon Park's favour, especially if it could receive some federal funding. If a ferry terminal could be built there then maybe the regular Metro Transit ferries could operate just during events which usually occur at different times than the peak ferry schedule. It might not cost too much just for a ferry terminal (?). Then if a few restaurants and shopping areas could spring up in that area also then it would be that much better.

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The fact that Defence Minister MacKay is touting it as a good location is a point in Shannon Park's favour,

I'd even go so far as to say that it's a huge hint. Here's the guy who can bring the money to the table standing in Shannon Park saying, "Now here's a nice spot for a stadium!" What one does in that case, from my understanding, is start figuring out how to make it work in Shannon Park. Pride goeth before a fall.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz

I'd even go so far as to say that it's a huge hint. Here's the guy who can bring the money to the table standing in Shannon Park saying, "Now here's a nice spot for a stadium!" What one does in that case, from my understanding, is start figuring out how to make it work in Shannon Park. Pride goeth before a fall.

That doesn't fit at all. What does pride have to do with this? If a Federal Minister wants to support a stadium at Shannon Park then it is possible that is what the HRM will get. But saying "Pride goeth before a fall" just makes me shake my head.

PS: Even having a federal minister mention a stadium at Shannon Park doesn't make it a sure thing. As we have seen before, the HRM, provincial government and likely private investors need to be on board also. I think we should be happy once we hear Premier Dexter say that he will support a stadium also.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

The Herald today printed an article about the HRM Council asking for volunteers for a Stadium Steering Committee (SSC) They would be involved in forming the business plan, operational plan, site selection. It would reportedly would be comprised of approx 12 people ( council members, sports/rec managers, business persons, and citizens)
SSC would be huge job....just think of the amount of work required.

Councillors previously stated they wanted un-biased, open minded people for this job.....Holy Moly....how is that going to go forward? I'm really scared that people in favour will vetoed off and the committee will be filled by those opposed....This would not work!

I fully understand and respect the need to have a business plan......funding partners are such a key issue....cost and debt to taxpayers will be the outcome....but how is the intangible benefit to be measured?

The Councillors will want to display a cost benefit analysis as a result of the business plan.

If this gets approval..and becomes the Atlantic Stadium ....or perhaps Sobeys Atlantic Stadium....or some other name it seems clear at this point the sites that council view as "sellable" to the public are Shannon or Dartmouth Crossing areas....nobody wants to pave paradise to build a Stadium.

FIFA is certainly a factor.,,,as is the Indigenous Games. We will need a cause to rally around getting this built. To get this going one of both have to happen.

We need that foresight to build big enough to support a permanent stadium and attract a tenants for the long haul operational costs. That means after any games we need the ability to host a CFL team and or a Soccer team, University games like the Uteck Bowl and the Vanier, outdoor events like concerts and other exhibition type of activities......its all in the mix.

I think I agree with your sentiment. In terms of a business plan, the only way to justify a stadium would be to state a business plan that is slanted in favour of a stadium. A stadium is a "quality of life" type of venue such as a library. A stadium can't be justified based on dollars and sense just like a library or 4-pad ice rink can't be justified based on dollars and sense. A business plan for a stadium could only show it as being justified based on the number of visitors that it would attract to the municipality and the spin-off economic benefits. Even then it might not be justifiable from a business point of view.

A stadium and CFL team are just things that would bring enjoyment and a sense of pride to the HRM residents. Why can't the HRM council and province just do it for that sake? Why not just develop a business plan for a stadium that will be economical to build and operate? In other words, a stadium that will lose the least amount of money.

The reason why so many people move away from Halifax and Nova Scotia is because they get bored by its lack of dreams and lack of jobs. I think that the two go hand in hand. The provinces with the big dreams are also the ones with the jobs. I hate being negative towards my home province but why can't the HRM and the province of Nova Scotia just show some can-do spirit and make it a more interesting place to live. I think that Mayor Kelly and a few Councillors are showing that can-do spirit and I hope that they will succeed.

[wespidel]

So how there are 8 cities in the running and possibly 9 with Victoria on the fence as a host applicant but could become a training camp site and exhibition game host. Sports Minister Mr. Lunn stated there would be no money used to expand existing stadiums or new stadiums but I wonder if he`s playing the competitive game where he`s from Victoria knowing that Van. would be chosen as a host city and not Victoria so I believe he certainly wouldn`t want Halifax to get Fed money for a new stadium if Halifax were selected as one of the six host cities. An interesting point to his negative stadium non- support is that Peter MacKay is higher up than him and more senior and has more say than him and Mr. MacKay did say recently that Shannon Park would be a perfect site to build a stadium which he can control because the Feds own most of the land.

Also a comment about the province support. I believe Mr. Estabrooks is the key component and he has said publicly on local TV that he`s in support of a stadium and stated as well that a CFL franchise should not be in Moncton and that it should be in Halifax. So from that statement alone I believe HRM will definitely receive support from the Dexter`s govt. in a big way.


I believe if Canada is selected March 3/2011 as the host country for the FIFA
Women`s World Cup of soccer, Halifax stands a really good chance to be selected as one of the six host cities. Here is what the six hosts cities would look like across the country, respresenting the province of BC. the largest city Van. with their new 560 million dollar 55 thousand seat stadium, respresenting Alberta, their capital city Edmonton with there newly renovated 60 thousand plus seat stadium, representing Manitoba their capital city Winnipeg, with their new 200 million dollar 33 thousand seat stadium, no entry from Sask., representing Ont. their capital city Ottawa with their 145 million new stadium, representing Quebec, their largest city Montreal with various facilities, representing the Atlantic region, Halifax the largest city, with their brand new 25,000 seat plus permanent seat stadium new stadium.

Moncton and Victoria may be used as training facilities and perchaps a scheduled exhibition game because of their current facilities.

I personally can`t see it going any other way, this could end up being the format! I also believe the 6 chosen host cities, one being Halifax and Halifax being the only major city without a major stadium, will be the reason why the Feds will support a new stadium for Halifax which would cover the Women`s World FIFA soccer tournamnet coast to coast across Canada.

[fenwick16]

That is interesting news wespidel, especially about Estabrooks supporting a stadium.

[Empire]

I wonder if the folks opposed to the stadium have noticed that NS has only won 2 medals at the Winter Games? Perhaps making 22,000 snow angles is all that the youth needs for exercise or athletic training?

[fenwick16]

There were a couple of interesting articles in the Chronicle Herald today.

The following is of interest to all the skeptics such as myself who wonder if the steering committee will be too unbiased to the point of recommending that a stadium not proceed: (the concern is that too unbiased means uninterested, and if uninterested people are applying then that might mean that they are actually opposed):

(source: Chronicle Herald - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1228739.html )

Committee far from mulling stadium’s fate
Councillors must first decide who will serve in the advisory group
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Fri, Feb 18 - 4:55 AM
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Committee members "would be competency-based appointments and would be individuals who . . . are open-minded with solid analytical and conceptual skills . . . and do not represent special interest groups who may wholeheartedly support, or oppose, the potential outcome," the report said.

Coun. Steve Adams (Spryfield-Herring Cove) acknowledged almost all municipal committees steer council toward a specific goal or an outcome.

Asked if it is possible the advisory group handling the stadium matter would recommend against a venue being constructed, he said that seems unlikely, but it is conceivable.

"Steering committees are there to come up with a recommendation that is the direction of council," said Adams, who didn’t have the panel’s terms of reference in front of him when contacted by The Chronicle Herald.

The other article is in reference to Premier Dexter's opinion on a stadium. At this point he sounds lukewarm towards the idea (or noncommittal might be a better word):


(source: Chronicle Herald - http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/1228586.html )

Premier wants more winter events
By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter
Fri, Feb 18 - 4:55 AM

Premier Darrell Dexter was on a Canada Games high Thursday, and mused about hosting other winter events in the future.

"I think the amazing contribution that the Canada Games has made to this city already really gives you pause to think that there is some real opportunity, whether it’s sports or cultural events at this time of year," he said after a cabinet meeting in Halifax.

"We need to be looking at this."

Dexter made the comment after being asked whether the province would play a role, such as contributing money, in building a stadium in the Halifax area.

The premier said the province is always interested in seeing a good business case for a stadium, but it has a "limited ability, at this point, to be able to participate."
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[beyeas]

I am not surprised he would be lukewarm. Firstly I think he sort of has to be regardless... but more importantly I think that there is probably not a lot of stomach politically speaking for the government to be talking up a major capital expenditure at this point. They will have more than enough on their hands trying to handle their own budget hot potatoes without adding more fuel to the fire. Of all the 3 levels of government I would say they are the least likely to want to commit to this. Their next budget is likely to please no one (tax cutters will hate them for the taxation aspects, and others will hate them for not acting on core ndp issues).

[wespidel]

Victoria, Van. BC, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Montreal, Ottawa, Moncton and Halifax. March 3rd 2011 will be the day FIFA decides who wins the host country bid and apparently in June of 2011 the host country decides on who will be the 6 host cities if Canada wins to host the FIFA Women`s World Cup of soccer.