Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[Misterspiffy]

Originally Posted by Cage

Are you talking about this sign Nazrim:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_...yP3XWiRXQ2SLA6E0A62w&cbp=12,8.51,,0,2.11

Noticed the misspelling but its not that much of a big deal. Back in 90's Edmonton had a bigger mistake for signage. The overhead sign on Whitemud Drive for the Turn onto Calgary Trail read:
Red Deer
International Airport

Here is the corrected version of the sign:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_...9nwLGjrlA&cbp=12,291.87585699999994,,0,0

The Nose Hill Drive mistake is a common one, along with the misspelling of Symons Valley Road.

Whoever is doing the signage needs to put quality control in place...
-Distance signage on northbound Deerfoot north of Airport Trail shows TWP RD 264; the last time I checked this was called 'CrossIron Drive'.

-Southbound Deerfoot towards McKnight shows McKnight Blvd as:
McKnight Blvd
NORTH
The heading ('NORTH) is meant to be for a direction of travel, not what side of the city its on. If I am to believe this, McKnight takes a single direction routing parallel and going the opposite direction of way I just exited.

-During the northwest Stoney Trail construction whoever in charge goofed on all of the signs for the Beddington Trail exit, calling Symons Valley Road NORTH, Beddington Trail NORTH. They fixed it weeks before they opened that stretch of Stoney.

I imagine it would cost some money to fix all these errors. But as the old saying goes, there never seems to be enough time (and money) to do it completely right the first time, but there's always enough time (and money) to do it over again.

[Mazrim]

I can tell you that no one knew that CrossIron Drive would be called that before any of those distance signs were done.

The big issue to me is that Alberta Transportation reviews all the signs before they're made, but they seem to never catch any mistakes like that. They have "experts" who look over them, but apparently they only glance over them at best.

On the consultant side you have people who likely have not done these things before and don't understand the standards, so they do stupid things like the McKnight North thing. There is no one company or group putting these things together. The best you can get is that the same company has done most of Stoney Trail NW and NE.

It's certainly unfortunate, because you go to BC and the consistency is great. After doing some myself, I started noticing just how bad it is in Alberta. Simple things like "Edmonton" being listed as a destination (as it should) when you leave Calgary and Airdrie on NB Highway 2, but at CrossIron Drive they show "Red Deer" as well, which is wrong. Alberta Transportation has a list of destinations you put on signs, so it's not hard to figure out...but, they approved the CrossIron Drive signs! (Those are a travesty in many ways )

[freeweed]

It's called proofreading, and it's a skill/requirement that is rapidly disappearing.

Just watch TV news and you can spot a minimum of half a dozen spelling and grammatical errors in a half hour segment. No one gives a shit anymore, as long as "people get the meaning".

[Jack Doe]

The province held a community workshop on 29 January. The presentation materials and a FAQ can be found here:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/4043.htm

A public open house is planned for late February.

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by Jack Doe

The province held a community workshop on 29 January. The presentation materials and a FAQ can be found here:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/4043.htm

A public open house is planned for late February.

Interesting, so they're saying the 37th ave alignment is the cheapest. I take it that the estimate if there is no tunnel then.

I kinda have to agree that it's the best route as the other route may require a 16 lane wide causeway. 1 accident will choke the system still.

[Jack Doe]

^^^
I believe you mean 37 St. I kinda got the impression from the document that it was the favoured alignment but that they weren't ruling out a tunnel, probably a cut and cover.

[Mazrim]

37th Street is probably the cheapest assuming an Urban Freeway layout. I doubt the cut and cover and bored tunnels are cheaper than upgrading Glenmore/Deerfoot, etc.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah, urban freeway then a huge bridge over the weasel head.

In any case, will have to take out lots of homes (save bored tunnel, which likely doesn't make economic sense). In the end the project will die due to community opposition, and hopefully be brought back with a crossing of reserve land.

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Jack Doe

The province held a community workshop on 29 January. The presentation materials and a FAQ can be found here:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/4043.htm

A public open house is planned for late February.

From what was presented, and seemed like a reasonable and logical presentation, 37th street is the clear winner. Some portion of the savings achieved can go towards a leading edge solution to cross the water - and it can be another architectural feather in the city's cap. Frankly speaking, the 37th street option is the only one that really looks to be a ring road - and the whole issue with the Glenmore bottleneck is a deal breaker in my mind.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

37th Street is probably the cheapest assuming an Urban Freeway layout. I doubt the cut and cover and bored tunnels are cheaper than upgrading Glenmore/Deerfoot, etc.

I don't know. According to those plans, any other routing has a ton of additional upgrades, and community impacts. Those cost could be very high very quickly too.

[polishavenger]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Yeah, urban freeway then a huge bridge over the weasel head.

In any case, will have to take out lots of homes (save bored tunnel, which likely doesn't make economic sense). In the end the project will die due to community opposition, and hopefully be brought back with a crossing of reserve land.

I doubt community opposition will kill this project as its been held up for 30 years due to negotiations with the band. At this point it needs to get going, tough decisions need to be made, and IMO that means dropping the reserve crossing and going through city lands.

[MalcolmTucker]

The province has said they won't go forward if there is community opposition.

Lakeview residents welcome MLA's assurances

By Jennifer Gerson
Calgary Herald
September 12, 2010

CALGARY -- The final southwest stretch of the ring road planned to eventually encircle the city will not be approved if government proposals are unacceptable to the community, according to a local MLA.
On Saturday, Calgary-Elbow MLA Alison Redford addressed a group of about 300 local residents opposed to constructing the stretch of highway.
On behalf of the minister of transportation, Redford said: "This is not intended to hurt this community . . . . If the community doesn't agree with where we go, then we don't do it."
...
A spokesperson for Transportation Minister Luke Ouellette confirmed the government would not push a proposal that was denounced by the community.
...

retrieved from http://www.lakeviewcommunity.org/announcements/communitygivenvetoinringroadplan-calgaryherald

[suburb]

Originally Posted by polishavenger

I doubt community opposition will kill this project as its been held up for 30 years due to negotiations with the band. At this point it needs to get going, tough decisions need to be made, and IMO that means dropping the reserve crossing and going through city lands.

Maybe we can get Foster to come back and design a bridge to cross the environmentally sensitive area that needs to be crossed for the 37th street alignment.

[polishavenger]

One can dream. As an environmentally minded person, I would very much prefer the tunnel boring solution.

Originally Posted by suburb

Maybe we can get Foster to come back and design a bridge to cross the environmentally sensitive area that needs to be crossed for the 37th street alignment.

[polishavenger]

What a painfully stupid position to take. Lets allow 300 people to veto something that is undeniably needed for this city. With this kind of approach, nothing would get done. Of course the community wont agree on anything, they dont need the connection.

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

The province has said they won't go forward if there is community opposition.

retrieved from http://www.lakeviewcommunity.org/announcements/communitygivenvetoinringroadplan-calgaryherald

[MalcolmTucker]

It isn't like the weasel head is some natural wonder - it didn't exist before the dam was put in. Going from bridge to bored tunnel at likely at least double the cost and lower capacity (and ability to transport a wide range of goods) doesn't seem worth it. A high bridge would be pretty minimal on impact after the construction was done.

[bigcanuck]

My preference would be an understated bridge design for that location - visually I wouldn't want it to impact the environment.

That being said, no question that a unique and inspiring design could still fit within those guidelines. I'm not asking for plain-jane, just something that fits within the context.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by polishavenger

What a painfully stupid position to take. Lets allow 300 people to veto something that is undeniably needed for this city. With this kind of approach, nothing would get done. Of course the community wont agree on anything, they dont need the connection.

The worst part is that it affects the whole region, not just the City. Obviously we are not the ones potentially faced with our houses being bought out and destroyed for this road, but you'd have to think they can see the clear benefits this road provides, and the need the City has to get an improved connection through the SW...I was a prisoner to the terrible SW traffic network for years and I'm glad to be free of it now, but I still desperately want to see this built.

[fusili]

I know many of you are going to disagree with me- but I don't think we should build it at all, unless it goes through Ts'uu Tina (I never know how to spell that).

Based on the numbers provided by the province almost all traffic crossing Glenmore going north is going to 3 places: MRU/Westbrook, Downtown and the Foothills Hospital/UofC and is coming mostly from communities in the South. Wouldn't a BRT to MRU/Westbrook from Heritage (and then onto the SE industrial from Heritage), expansion of the south line to 4 car trains, and a 16th Avenue BRT connecting the Hospital to Lion's Park station relieve this bottleneck?

Just a point of conversation.

[craner]

I hope they build Option 4 (37th St.) with a tunnel or bridge. Option 5 would be my second choice.
Any of the other options wouldn't even be worth pursuing IMO.