Halifax Stadium Discussion

[wespidel]

Thanks Fenwick for your reply, wich you were here and could go to the stadium meeting in Jan. 2011. Better news on stadium, Mayor Kelly stated in the Metro today when asked 11 questions for 2011, Convention Centre etc. and one being a stadium. Mayor Kelly again made it clear that if Halifax gets support from the NS govt. which they should and Ottawa who seems interested, than Halifax will build a stadium by 2013 but it won`t be a CommonWealth game 150 million model but it will be a major sporting facility which makes me believe the Mayor Kelly is aiming for 60 million dollar plus stadiium for Halifax which will blow Moncton out of the water.

Mayor Kelly`s exact quote and our Mayor has a masters in Business and his quite capable when is come to a business deal and putting it together and making it happen.

This was his quote in the Metro...... Question to him to the Mayor,
So are we getting a stadium for Halifax?
Part of Mayor Kelly`s answer..... My hope is this is one we will be able to bring to fruition. It doesn`t have to be an elaborate stadium and it can be different from the one envisioned with the CommonWealth Games bid, but it`s a major piece of sport infrastructure we don`t have.


Sounds pretty serious to me, plus he`s been working 70 to 90 hrs a week and putting in extra time on this one and I`m sure he will continue to, to make it happen.


Lets be serious here, Moncton can`t support a CFL franchise, 125 thousand is too small of a local population and yes Wayne you need 25,000 permanent like Montreal with 20 plus skyboxes in order for a CFL team to be profitable those are the facts, ask Larry Smith and that`s why MTL expanded permanent seating by 5 thousand and put in 19 more skyboxes which Moncton doesn`t have and are not even close to qualify for a CFL team and franchise because of the type of stadium they currently, Halifax I hope will not make the same mistake. I agree with you Fenwick, Shannon Park is not a good site and there is not much crime close to that site and Saint Mary`s does not have the location to built a major stadium, university stadium yes but not a CFL model 25,000 permanent stadium expandable to 45 to 50 thousand which Halifax needs for CFL football and the Grey Cup and concerts. Moncton maxium capability for expansion at their loctaion is 28,000.

Fenwick I pleased that you agree on a 25,000 plus permanent seat stadium expandable in the endzones with 20 plus skyboxes, and concourses with heated concession stands and washrooms and you are right you don`t need to heat all of the inside stadium concourses.

Merry Xmas Fenwick, see if you can make a similar model 25,000 permanent back seats like you have with 20 plus skyboxes, add concession stands inside the stadium concourse on both side with your washrooms and put in a video screen, score board and email to me and I will email to the Mayor of Halifax and as well take to the stadium meeting in January.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Lets be serious here, Moncton can`t support a CFL franchise, 125 thousand is too small of a local population

That's OK wes, it's always good to be underestimated by the opposition.

Personally, I don't even view Halifax as the "opposition", as I have no doubts that Halifax will eventually get a team, especially since the success of the Moncton experiment has goaded your fair city into action.

The only thing I think is important is that Moncton needs to get a franchise first. If Moncton get's a franchise first, Halifax will almost certainly get a franchise shortly thereafter. The reverse situation however is not necessarily true. I fear that if Halifax get's a franchise first then Moncton will never get a franchise because so many people such as yourself consider such an eventuality as being absolutely inconcievable and incomprehensible.

In any event, the situation has turned quite a bit in the last several months. David Alward is not a provincial booster in the same way as Shawn Graham was, and the NB government is behind the financial eight ball. If a multi-year agreement with the CFL can't be worked out in the next two months, then whatever momentum Moncton had on this issue will be lost.

With Mayor Kelly's new stadium interest, the pendulum may swing irrevocably in Halifax's direction.

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Could luxury boxes be added in this area between the first and second tier?

Could changerooms and media facilities be in the corner areas?


If changerooms are put in the endzones then it makes it more difficult to expand the stadium for special events. If built under the stands then the seating stands will cost much more. Could player changerooms, stadium washrooms and media facilities be centralized in the 4 corners? These 4 corner areas could be expanded to have souvenir shops and other useful purposes (maybe retail) when required.

Where are the media facilities and luxury boxes at Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium? (it doesn't look like they are at the top of the stadium)

I believe that the change rooms for Frank Clair Stadium in Ottawa were in a separate building along the one endzone sideline.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

I believe that the change rooms for Frank Clair Stadium in Ottawa were in a separate building along the one endzone sideline.

Thanks for the info. The media centre that I drew in the corner looks somewhat unusual (the slanted area on top of the corner building). Does anyone know of any stadium with the media centre in the corner?

I went on a tour of the Indianapolis Lucas Oil Stadium and they have glass in the Media Centre that magnifies the field by a factor of 2 (however it is near the center field). If there was a media centre in the corner with magnifying glass then it would provide a good view.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Thanks Fenwick for your reply, wich you were here and could go to the stadium meeting in Jan. 2011.

Is there a stadium meeting in January 2011? I thought that you were referring to the December Forum meeting that I couldn't attend.

I will keep thinking about the 3D model. The reason that I thought aluminum benches would be best in the lower section is because it is completely open to the elements. Those rows will likely be covered in snow during the winter.

Quite a few CFL stadium have some aluminum benches, most small - large US university stadiums have almost all aluminum benches and the NFL's Lambeau Field maintained almost all aluminum benches throughout the stadium even though they spent $290 million dollars on the recent stadium renovation (Lambeau Field is a beautiful stadium - I posted a picture in this thread back around the end of June 2010 - it was built in 1958 as a 32,000 seat stadium and then was expanded over the years).

[wespidel]

Moncton Rad, sorry I didn`t mean in any way to degrade your city, I`m seriuosly being realistic here! There can`t be two CFL teams in Atlantic Canada, not at this point maybe 25 years from now but not in the next ten years. Yes Moncton are ahead of Halifax and do have a stadium but they are 50 million dollars away from having the CFL model stadium they need to have to be a successful CFL franchise but than again they do not have the local city base population to support a team.
I attended your Moncton CFL game an actually went down on Friday and stayed all weekend and supported the event and I like Moncton a lot, I`m a Maritime, how can you not like Moncton. But strictly on a business case and Halifax being the largest city in the Atlantic Region by far, I believe if Halifax can build a 60 to 70 million facility like they are talking about in the next two years, Halifax will be definitely be the best choice for the CFL to expand coast to coast specially with Ottawa back in 2013. Halifax is a natural and has 410 thousand poeple in HRM and growing and within a hour and a half radius of the city, 560,000 people, counting the valley, the south shore,Truro and Pictou county areas.


I covered the Atlantic region for many years in sales and talking to people in NB, from other cities in NB have told me that they would support I team in Halifax more than in Moncton. People even from Moncton have told me that Halifax is the place to have a CFL team not Moncton and there can`t be two CFL team in the Maritimes. So why not put it where it as a much better chance to survive than put into a market and a city where it can`t!

[halifaxboyns]

I'm taking a bit of a different view on all this. I'm not surprised by Sue's comment - her and her husband were big parts of St. Mary's and I expected at some point for her to come out in favour of expanding that stadium. Nothing wrong with that - but if they expect to get a CFL team; they'd better be prepared for major changes to that field which could compromise SMU facilities. Basically; it's too small.

Tim's comments were a little bit of a surprise to me; but I'm going to remain cautiously neutral and assume that he may not have all the information and comments based on a partial understanding. Time will tell...

The fact that both projects may be competing for the same federal money causes me some concern. However, considering that many are saying that the economy is 'stalling' or not progressing well, leads me to believe there may be some small burst of further stimulus coming especially with hints the PC's want an election. So what better way to sure up their numbers - but that's a guess.

Considering the logistics of picking a location and the design of a stadium; even if this was given the green light in principal - it will probably take a few months (possibily even a year) to plan out before even getting money. This isn't something that the city would jump into without considering, especially considering we had so much of a difficult time trying to narrow the sites down; the city would want to look at a number and review the positives/negatives and transit/transportation implications.

So I don't think it's unreasonable to continue a dialogue at this point, but realizing that even if this goes forward in principal it may be well into 2011 or 2012 before the final design and site are selected. That may mean that other sources of federal funds may come available.

[wespidel]

More and more support for a stadium in Halifax after survey numbers came out which were all over local radio and even Dexter was confronted on air about the survey numbers.

Out of 2,800 votes in a short period of time, 75 % of the people of a Halifax want a stadium built before a Convention Centre. These are huge numbers in percentage favouring a stadium over the WTCC. So Halifax better come up with some decent renderings in relation to the type of stadium they want to build and not an incapable, inadequate in size and in amenities, with no skyboxes etc. or they will be in the same boat as Moncton with a stadium too small, not enough permanent seats, no skyboxes, no permanent concession stands throughout the stadium and not capable of expanding over 28,000 thousand.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

More and more support for a stadium in Halifax after survey numbers came out which were all over local radio and even Dexter was confronted on air about the survey numbers.

Out of 2,800 votes in a short period of time, 75 % of the people of a Halifax want a stadium built before a Convention Centre. These are huge numbers in percentage favouring a stadium over the WTCC. So Halifax better come up with some decent renderings in relation to the type of stadium they want to build and not an incapable, inadequate in size and in amenities, with no skyboxes etc. or they will be in the same boat as Moncton with a stadium too small, not enough permanent seats, no skyboxes, no permanent concession stands throughout the stadium and not capable of expanding over 28,000 thousand.

The rendering from WTCC are out at this link - http://eventsnovascotia.com/userfiles/file/StadiumConceptWHW_Dec24_2010.pdf . They are submitting a proposal for 10,000 permanent seats with room for expansion to 20,000 seats. The budget is $30 million dollars excluding site purchase. I think that this is different than what the Mayor has in mind since he has stated a budget of $60 million dollars and 25,000 - 30,000 seats. The proposal is stating that 40 acres would be required and the proposal includes a separate track. It will be interesting to see if the HRM council are in agreement with this proposal or if they would like something larger.

I think that this is very nice 10,000 seat stadium but I am sure that many were hoping that it would be at least 20,000 permanent seats with lots of room for expansion.

I posted this image from the WTCC proposal (source: http://eventsnovascotia.com/userfiles/file/StadiumConceptWHW_Dec24_2010.pdf )

[worldlyhaligonian]

[QUOTE=fenwick16;5104567]The rendering from WTCC are out at this link - http://eventsnovascotia.com/userfiles/file/StadiumConceptWHW_Dec24_2010.pdf . They are submitting a proposal for 10,000 permanent seats with room for expansion to 20,000 seats. The budget is $30 million dollars excluding site purchase. I think that this is different than what the Mayor has in mind since he has stated a budget of $60 million dollars and 25,000 - 30,000 seats. The proposal is stating that 40 acres would be required and the proposal includes a separate track. It will be interesting to see if the Mayor and HRM agree with this proposal.

I think that this is very nice 10,000 seat stadium but I am sure that many were hoping that it would be at least 20,000 permanent seats with lots of room for expansion.

Thanks for the link. It looks alright... but if prefer your work, esp the youtube video on your stadium site here: http://halifaxstadium.ca/designs

[fenwick16]

I think that it is a good start, especially since it includes skyboxes, VIP room and change-rooms. But since the Mayor has been talking about a 25,000 - 30,000 seat facility many of us have started to think bigger. I still prefer an urban site to a suburban site which I believe this proposal must be at 40 acres.

[-Harlington-]

its nice to actually get the ball rolling on this for once
but i think they can do better..

[thurmas]

It's a start but too rinky dink right now it has to be 25 to 30k it just looks like a moncton stadium in those shots. Atleast they have the endzones openended for expansion seats though.

[fenwick16]

To change the subject,

I have seen sports events at the Rogers Centre, Montreal Olympic Stadium and Alamodome, and I had a tour of the Indianapolis Lucas Oil stadium; these are all enclosed stadiums and the concourses are enclosed. I have also been to Camden Yards (I sat high up in the stands and it was fantastic, but I don't remember the concourse layout), and I had a tour of Lambeau Field which is like a shrine of stadiums (but we didn't go through the concourses - just the new atrium, luxury suites and on the edge of the field).

So I have a question about various outdoor stadiums that others have been to - which ones have the space under the stands as an open-air space (i.e. unheated and just basically as passageways). When I look at this image of Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium it looks like the space directed under the stands is open-air (in other images it looks like the washrooms are built directly adjacent to the stands) and the lower bowl appears to be sunken with the concourse at the top. Images of the Calgary McMahon Stadium also make it appear to be partly open under the stands. Can anyone who has been to these stadiums confirm this one way or the other (are the concourses open-air)? If anyone has concourse images of either of these stadiums I would like to see them.

I really think that it is time for Halifax to take a leap of faith and build a stadium that seats about 25,000 people. McMahon Stadium was built in 1960 with initially only 20,000 and was expanded over the years (at the time Calgary would have been smaller than Halifax is now).

(source:




Here is an image of me at Lambeau Field (I kept thinking that I wish it were in Halifax):

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that it is a good start, especially since it includes skyboxes, VIP room and change-rooms. But since the Mayor has been talking about a 25,000 - 30,000 seat facility many of us have started to think bigger. I still prefer an urban site to a suburban site which I believe this proposal must be at 40 acres.

I hope WHW gets your full suite of renderings. We need to aim for 20,000 permanent seats. There are lessons to be learned form building an 9200 Metro Centre. It was too small at the time it was built and is very bare bones. Thousands have been spent adding skyboxes and doing upgrades. The seating has been increased to 10800 and it is still very much inadequate.

It is nice to see a genuine effort put forth but we need more than 10,000 seats.

I have been to Rogers Centre, Olympic Stadium, Minneapolis Metro Dome and the old Giants Stadium. The old Giants Stadium was like an 82,000 seat Metro Centre. The upper concourses were open to the elements which seemed unusual for a stadium of that size.

[wespidel]

A Sue Utech Special for Saint Mary`s, what a joke, get these councillors out of our city, there big trouble and Sue Utech continues to knock the Mayor every time she is on local radio. The Mayor is trying to help so Halifax builDs the right stadium for what they need, a permanent 25,000 plus seat stadium and he said on TV,it would cost 40 to 60 million, between 25 and 30 thousand which the CTV sports reporter indicated the Mayor said and he continues to get knocked down and it`s obvious who they are lead by Sue Utech. It`s funny how this drawing of a mickey mouse stadium fits so nicely in Saint Mary`s. WHAT A JOKE!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

A Sue Utech Special for Saint Mary`s, what a joke, get these councillors out of our city, there big trouble and Sue Utech continues to knock the Mayor every time she is on local radio. The Mayor is trying to help so Halifax builDs the right stadium for what they need, a permanent 25,000 plus seat stadium and he said on TV,it would cost 40 to 60 million, between 25 and 30 thousand which the CTV sports reporter indicated the Mayor said and he continues to get knocked down and it`s obvious who they are lead by Sue Utech. It`s funny how this drawing of a mickey mouse stadium fits so nicely in Saint Mary`s. WHAT A JOKE!

I don't think that it is coming from HRM council, I think many Councillors and Mayor Kelly want something bigger than this (however, I might be wrong). It is just a preliminary conceptual rendering, so if a majority of residents want something bigger then they should say so during the public consultations and by writing to the Mayor, Councillors, Premier and MLAs.

PS: I am not really excited about a 40 acre proposal that will certainly have to be on the fringe of the municipality. I like urban stadiums such as the Rogers Centre, BMO Field and BC Place that are situated on much smaller sites (10 acres would do) and use existing parking within the city. Why not consider a 10 acre site near the downtown core and use existing parking? There is the DND site and possibly the site next to the VIA Station Terminal. The alternative is a suburban site with few amenities but surrounded by on-site parking.

Maybe a SMU stadium that incorporates the existing Tower Centre would make sense if it the stadium is built so that it can be expanded to 25,000 seats (probably the Tower Centre would have to be partially torn down and have the recreation centre built under the stands on that side of the stadium ( then 10,000 seats could be built on that side). However, a SMU stadium that is limited to 15,000 seats would only be of use for CIS football but not the CFL.

Halifax should be trying for a CFL team now instead of people perpetually saying wait 10 - 15 years.

[wespidel]

They won`t tear the tower down and if they did it`s still not big enough to expand to 45 to 50 thousand for a Grey Cup game which you have consider or major concerts. I DO AGRREE what you said about building in the city and not outside the city. I think the public have tp push for a 25,ooo permanent seat facility expandable to 50 thousand on a make shift in the range of 60 to 70 million because if we built this mickey mouse Moncton like incapable stadium, we are dead in the water and going no wheres fast specially for the size of Halifax and what events it will not be able to attract period , why even think about building just a tiny inadequate stadium for the size of Halifax. People should stand in reltaion to all the other major projects which they are and have spent a lot more. This is an insult to the peole of Halifax.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

They won`t tear the tower down and if they did it`s still not big enough to expand to 45 to 50 thousand for a Grey Cup game which you have consider or major concerts. I DO AGRREE what you said about building in the city and not outside the city. I think the public have tp push for a 25,ooo permanent seat facility expandable to 50 thousand on a make shift in the range of 60 to 70 million because if we built this mickey mouse Moncton like incapable stadium, we are dead in the water and going no wheres fast specially for the size of Halifax and what events it will not be able to attract period , why even think about building just a tiny inadequate stadium for the size of Halifax. People should stand in reltaion to all the other major projects which they are and have spent a lot more. This is an insult to the peole of Halifax.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a joke. It is actually a very nice soccer specific stadium that might even be suitable for a profession soccer league. It would have to be expanded for the CFL though. Many of us were hoping for a stadium that could host CFL teams as soon as it was built.

When I look at the rendering below, the first thing that comes to my mind is that it could be a great stadium if the upper tier had another 15 - 20 rows added and the same size of upper tier was added to the other side.

(source: http://eventsnovascotia.com/userfiles/file/StadiumConceptWHW_Dec24_2010.pdf )

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If Moncton get's a franchise first, Halifax will almost certainly get a franchise shortly thereafter.

I don't see it that way at all. If Moncton gets a franchise then the league is officially coast to coast as has been the goal for a long time. The pressure would be off of them to get another team down here. And Moncton could then leverage the team and stadium to press for more growth....at our expense.