[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

My guess is that a letter from Megan Leslie to the federal government will have no impact whatsoever.

Considering that she has absolutely no influence in delivering govt largesse, that seems likely. In fact, she could well be a reverse tout. If she opposes something, the odds are that Harper will favor it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Considering that she has absolutely no influence in delivering govt largesse, that seems likely. In fact, she could well be a reverse tout. If she opposes something, the odds are that Harper will favor it.

Exactly what I was thinking... Harper probably thinks hey, if this is what the wingnuts think... then build it!

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are more armchair experts offering opinions on this project than any in recent memory. It certainly looks as though the teacher's union and the enviro-crazies teamed up with the STV loonies and the rest of their left-wing buddies to orchestrate an online campaign against this. When I see elected officials equating this to support for the Yarmouth ferry or school bus service, it really does make one wonder what they are thinking.

Gerald Keddy took this opportunity to oppose the cc to save his bacon. 99.9% of the electorate on the South Shore would be anti convention centre and he chose to protect his job over the good of Nova Scotia. What has the South Shore contributed to the overall economy of NS lately. Tax breaks for Bowater is what Keddy would call money well spent I guess, not to mention Dexter just announced a new school for his hometown of Liverpool. The Yarmouth ferry provided some jobs and a bit of tourism but the return just wasn't there for the cost required. It is just another example of how the tax man is supposed to be Santa Claus and hand out money but never invest in ventures that can provide a real return.

[beyeas]

yeah I had to laugh at some of the comments on the CH site where it was people from other parts of the province saying "I don't want my money going to Halifax. What do I get from that?" I felt like writing and saying THINK THAT THROUGH... If Halifax stopped footing the bill for the rest of the province then you would be broke! Dumbasses.
So many people don't realize the concept of economic engines. You see the same thing with Halifax where people in "the counties" don't want to tax money spent on the downtown.

[Dartboy]

HUMMM, A surprise that Uteck is against the CC. So let me first state that Kelly is not waffling here. he is dead set on building this now. So Uteck is one of 5 against it. MY gut feel is that this is a pure political gamble for her. If this turns out to be a boondoggle she will play that card hard in her further political ambitions here in Halifax.

I like the deal a bit better but I still dont like it. I actually think that it is entirely possible that Rank's financing for the entire project is fully leveraged on the CC component.

THis CC may be getting on the right track but it has been all over the place. I have issued tenders and RFPs before and in some cases we had to rip it all up and start from scratch. I would be ok with that. I would be ok with stepping all the way back to the RFP or EOI stage and redefining the criteria. I have a problem when only one bidder qualifies. IF you have eliminated everyone before the pricing stage then you have , in effect, defeated the purpose of a formal request for bid.

I truly beleive that cogswell or waterfront options need to be considered so for one of the few times in my life I wil with SUE on this one but for different reasons

[Copes]

Well, I'm very happy to see this project go ahead. I expect Halifax's downtown to grow quite a bit over the coming years and I think the Convention Center, once the opposition get over it, is what is going to kick start that development.

I'm excited about the future and the Convention Center is the first step. I wonder if Rank is hiring...

[halifaxboyns]

As I posted on CBC - I don't think the RFP allowed the Cogswell site to be considered because no one owned the land other than the City or Province. No one had waterfront land; so there. The two sites were out.
Is it good? No, the waterfront would've been pretty cool to have it (especially if it was down near Pier 21 - that's where I think it should've gone if on the waterfront). But it wasn't meant to be.

[halifaxboyns]

I should add to my previous post (rather than edit it). I think the flaw in the process to have considered alternate locations was the way in which the RFP was done. I must admit I wasn't fully watching this until the announcement of the Nova Centre site; but it seems to me the RFP was setup to exclude certain locations.

Perhaps someone who has watched this from the beginning could jump in on this; it was around the time they announced Nova Centre I joined the board and I may be wrong...

[someone123]

Many people cried foul about the original RFP and at some point there was some kind of lobbying effort (was the other proposal from Hardman?) to promote the Cogswell site.

On the one hand I want them to get rid of Cogswell but on the other I think this is probably a superior proposal at the end of the day. The other may have been preliminary but I remember it as a convention centre by itself with nothing on top, which is a waste of valuable land.

As I've mentioned before I am also a little skeptical of the idea that a waterfront location would be better. It would have nice views for attendees maybe but is probably not great for public use of the area.

[halifaxboyns]

Waterfront would work from the perspective of making it a signature building to see - that was the purpose of Summit Place; which is okay but was such a waste of development potential on a site that could've been so much more. But you are right; from a functional perspective - it would be a tough commute too especially in winter. Look at Cunard Centre - most people I know cab it or drive to it and only walk during the summer months or on good days.

The Cogswell area seems to be the 'saviour' for everything and I think people need to get realistic. With the dramatic grade changes that will have to be dealt with in addition to accommodating the number of roads and configurations, I don't think there will be as much land here for office towers as people might believe. While I'm not expert; the priority will be to realign the roads so that they are functional, not excessively graded (which would be a nightmare in winter) and then the remnants can be developed.

When I look at how much of a grade change to deal with - I really can't see any more than two office towers floor plates and that's roughly the size of Purdy's and I think I'm being generous. If they had used the site for a convention centre; it would've been the CC and nothing else - so the big fight on downtown development would've just been put off until the site was redone and then the first new tower, we'd be back to square one.

[Jonovision]

I think there is quite a bit of land on the Cogswell site. During the HRM By Design process there was a drawing made by the consultant that showed what a newly imposed street grid would look like. There were 4 complete blocks plus a plaza space and there might have even been more.

I think we have the best proposal we could have asked for now though. It is the only one that would have incorporated multiple uses on one site. Our city can't afford to give up land downtown for only one use. We have so little of it downtown.

[halifaxboyns]

My estimates of the road layout were conservative and took into account a need to expand the roads. I'll go with Jono's comment though; but still 4 towers if the economic situation improves could be enough, it could be more than enough if we continue to have mild growth or not enough if things take off.

I don't think the cogswell site was a good place for trade centre.

[fenwick16]

Here are some comments from Peter MacKay regarding the Nova Centre and Stadium http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/20/ns-stadium-mckay-kelly.html . It sounds like he more strongly supports a stadium than the convention centre. I am a bit concerned by this quote - "There appears to be growing division of opinion on whether this is a project that would merit federal support."

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Here are some comments from Peter MacKay regarding the Nova Centre and Stadium http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/20/ns-stadium-mckay-kelly.html . It sounds like he more strongly supports a stadium than the convention centre. I am a bit concerned by this quote - "There appears to be growing division of opinion on whether this is a project that would merit federal support."

Watching him on the news last night it was easily seen that he supports the stadium, and not so much the convention centre.

I also heard Q104 did a citizens Q question yesterday on the convention centre and 85% of the respondants said they did NOT support a convention centre and some said they would rather support a new stadium.

Personally i think the public would be better served with a new stadium.

In the end i think we need a answer on Nova Centre soon as its impacting other decisions.

[beyeas]

One of my worries if the CC doesn't go through at this point is that it might be seen in the general public as a victory for HT, and more specifically I worry some may take the failure of it to mean that "I guess the STV folks were right".

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

One of my worries if the CC doesn't go through at this point is that it might be seen in the general public as a victory for HT, and more specifically I worry some may take the failure of it to mean that "I guess the STV folks were right".

It would depend on the reasons for saying no, if that is the decision in the end. Still possible they will support it, however the writing maybe on the wall.

[someone123]

"Nova Centre vs. Stadium" is a ridiculous false dilemma.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by sdm

It would depend on the reasons for saying no, if that is the decision in the end.

I don't know that that is true. People often don't remember the reasons, they just remember the outcome. And given how much attention that STV has gotten in the press on this, if the outcome is for it to be stopped (regardless of the reasons) I am sure that STV will trumpet their "success", and that might be what the public take from it.

[beyeas]

These days you can pretty much tell which way an article on the Nova Centre will lean based upon which set of drawings they use.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/13/ns-convention-centre-deal.html

At this point there is no excuse for using highly outdated drawing, unless you are emphasizing a negative story about it.

[halifaxboyns]

It annoys me that CBC continues to use the old drawings - but it seems they've made up their minds about where they stand on the proposal.

I love all the reaction to Peter McKay being cautious. Everyone is saying that means the project is dead. Last I checked; doesn't it just mean he wants more information and is being cautious?

To me; this project has to be looked at in terms of long term impacts. I'm quite content that we may not fully recoup the pubilc investment; that doesn't bother me. But if this project goes ahead and gives enough confidence for some of the 'shelved' projects to come off the shelf and get moving; that to me is a huge benefit.