[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by David1gray

a bit from the cbc article



http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/12/13/ns-convention-centre-deal.html

Good on Kelly for saying that then.
I obviously don't agree with him a lot of times, but this time I am glad to see him standing up and taking a stand rather than following the breeze.

[q12]

Rick Howe is talking about this for the whole hour from 3-4 pm on News 95.7.

There are a bunch of wing nuts calling in.

One thing interesting was that he mentioned corporate research associates did a poll and say at least 56% of HRM support the new convention centre. So I say the save the view can take those numbers and suck it.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by q12

Rick Howe is talking about this for the whole hour from 3-4 pm on News 95.7.

There are a bunch of wing nuts calling in.

One thing interesting was that he mentioned corporate research associates did a poll and say at least 56% of HRM support the new convention centre. So I say the save the view can take those numbers and suck it.

Oh the infamous save the view questionare - I asked about that and never got an answer. If I know their bag of tricks; it was probably: Which would rather support - our troops in Afghanistan, the new convention centre or green power?
LOL

[sdm]

Just listen to Uteck and she is right to say no.

The operating loss is not capped, the risk position the city is taking is huge burden on the tax player.

[macgregor]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Good on Kelly for saying that then.
I obviously don't agree with him a lot of times, but this time I am glad to see him standing up and taking a stand rather than following the breeze.

There's lots of breeze to follow today! Good for him though.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sdm

The operating loss is not capped, the risk position the city is taking is huge burden on the tax player.

This seems crazy. It's totally reasonable to set a cap that would have to be raised by council vote -- everybody has budgets.

[-Harlington-]

Peter kelly and Bill estabrooks told steve murphy they were 100 % sure this is going to be built and operating by 2014

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

This seems crazy. It's totally reasonable to set a cap that would have to be raised by council vote -- everybody has budgets.

This is a very dangerous move on their part. Currently the cap is 750k, but quick math using the HLT report numbers show a possible 4.5 million the city and province would share.

They should have required a cap.

The other item that make me nervous is the taking over of the old centre and subsequent risk in operating costs for that building.

Seems to me the province gets the better deal.

[halifaxboyns]

It may be that the cap not being set was part of the negotiation.
CBC is saying there is a public buy back as well at year 30 for $1 and then a formula at year 22. I guess the city buys the old centre if it's not 2014 - which seems reasonable.

For me; this is economic development pure and simple and it's rare (at least in my experience) to ever fully recover the money put into economic development in the short term and sometimes not fully in the long term. Personally; the fact that construction jobs will be created (if even for the short term) is better than no jobs being created at all. The same with even minimum wage paying level jobs; because there have been numbers come out that more and more people aren't going beyond high school for education - they deserve jobs too.

If the cap has been removed - so be it. It was probably done as part of the negotiation, which for whatever reason removed it. Could it come back to bite us? Maybe - but I go back to what HRM staff were saying in their presentation to council: It's easier to quantify the negatives than the positives.

[Jonovision]

A whole slew of articles from the Herald today.

They’re getting closer

Province, HRM reach deal on convention centre; feds yet to weigh in


By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter

The province and city have a deal on a new downtown Halifax convention centre and have asked Ottawa to fund almost one-third of the project.

Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly and pro­vincial Infrastructure Renewal Minis­ter Bill Estabrooks announced the agreement Monday morning after a short, public regional council meet­ing.

Halifax regional council voted 18-5 in favour of the deal after poring over the details at a four-hour, closed-door session Friday.

The city got the province to agree to pay a portion of the municipal proper­ty taxes on the centre after the prov­ince had insisted that it be tax-exempt. The province will pay about $550,000 in the first year.

There is also a new provision in the tentative deal with developer Rank Inc. for Halifax Regional Municipality and the province to have the option to buy the centre after either 22 or 30 years of leasing.

As for the existing centre, the prov­ince will try to sell it for at least book value, which is now $12.8 million, but if it is not sold by the time the new centre is open, scheduled for January 2015, then the city would buy it at book value.

The municipality and province will also share operating costs and any annual operating deficit. There is now a cap on the amount the municipality contributes to the convention centre’s operations that increases by the consumer price index. The current amount is $ 588,000.

Kelly and Estabrooks held a joint news conference Monday morning to trumpet the deal.

“This is about looking toward the fu­ture," Kelly said. “We can complain if we want, but the fact is, we made a decision, we’re moving forward, and we have to get these types of projects done. This is eco­nomic activity that’s going to bring long­term benefit, and we’ve got to stop the negativity."

Estabrooks said it was a great day for Nova Scotia.

“Today’s agreement is a major milestone in the economic growth of our province.

This project means thousands of jobs and great economic development opportuni­ties, not just here in downtown Halifax, but throughout Nova Scotia."

The $159-million convention centre is part of a proposal for the old Halifax Herald property on Argyle Street that would also include a financial centre, retail space and a parkade. The project’s total price tag is close to $500 million.

The province and municipality want the federal government to join in paying one­third of the convention centre’s $140-million construction and design cost, or about $47 million. The developer has locked in that price until Jan. 14.

Andrea MacDonald, a spokeswoman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, the federal minister responsible for Nova Scotia, said Monday that MacKay is aware of the pro­ject’s importance to the province and feder­al officials will work closely with the prov­ince on the funding request.

Rank spokesman Joe Ramia could not be reached for comment.

The province and municipality would jointly share in $19 million in interim financing costs, and with construction and design costs, they would each pay $56 million. They would make their payments in the form of a capital lease over 25 years.

The lease would also give the two gov­ernments options for two five-year exten­sions, along with the buyout options at years 22 and 30. After year 30, it would cost $1, while the amount at year 22 is still to be negotiated.

The property tax agreement between the province and municipality is a unique arrangement because of the special-pur­pose nature of the convention centre, said Bruce Fisher, the municipality’s manager of fiscal and tax policy.

Taxes are usually based on the assessed value of a property. In this case, the munic­ipality will calculate the actual taxes paid per square foot on the existing centre and use that amount to determine the taxes.

The taxes would apply at the beginning of the year that construction is complete.

Starting in 2015-16, the taxes would in­crease by two per cent a year, or the con­sumer price index, whichever is less.

The other commercial parts of the pro­ject would be fully taxable, and the munic­ipality would put that money toward the cost of building the convention centre. The estimated taxes are $3.8 million. The mu­nicipality’s annual capital lease payment would be about $5.1 million, although that is still to be finalized.

“If we had a stand-alone convention centre somewhere else without a hotel and without an office tower, it would be much more difficult to finance this," Fisher said.

Councillors opposing the motion Mon­day were Debbie Hum (Rockingham-Went­worth), Sue Uteck (Northwest Arm-South End), Jackie Barkhouse (Woodside Eastern Passage), Jennifer Watts (Connaught­Quinpool), and Reg Rankin (Timberlea­Prospect).

Hum said she had voted back in Novem­ber for council to move into detailed nego­tiations with the province. But she said Monday that she is worried the deal won’t end up benefiting taxpayers. She said she is concerned about the removal of the cap on how much the municipality would cover of a convention centre deficit.

“Our hesitancy and our concern may be unfounded at the end of the day, but we may not know that for five, for 20, for 25 years, and so, at the end of the day, you go with what you feel is the proper thing to do," Hum said.

She said she still questions whether there is room for growth in the convention market.

University of Texas professor Heywood Sanders, who has studied the convention business in North America, said he doesn’t see business growing. He was in Halifax last month at the invitation of groups who oppose the Halifax project.

Sanders said the amount of convention space had grown in recent years while business declines.

“There are (people) who believe that having more space is automatically going to get you more events and more folks, but the problem is it just gives you more space," he said in November.

The province estimates the centre’s construction would generate $9.5 million in provincial tax revenue and another $40 million in its first 10 years of operation.

The capital lease costs would add up to more than $50 million.

A new report Monday from the Nova Scotia office of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives questions the potential benefit of the convention centre project.

Author Christopher Majka said the new option for eventual public ownership of the centre is positive, but he is skeptical the deal is a good one for taxpayers.

“Under no possible scenario does the convention centre project actually recover the public investment that will go into it," he said in an interview.

Majka said there are reasons to be skepti­cal of the growth projections for national and international convention delegates — the people the province and municipality count on to spend big while they are in town and perhaps tour outside the city.

He said economic conditions, travel costs, global security and video-confer­encing technology all lead to uncertainty about convention business growth.

The province released consultants’ re­ports in the spring that showed Halifax had lost convention business because of its outdated small facility. The new centre would be three times bigger, with more flexible space.

Phil Pacey of Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia, part of the anti-convention centre Coalition to Save the View from Citadel Hill, said council made a bad decision.

“The public does not want governments to subsidize the construction of highrise towers in our historic downtown," Pacey said in a news release. “Our heritage brings eight times as many visitors to Nova Scotia as conventions."

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation said Monday it is still opposed to the project.

([email protected])

[Jonovision]

MPs split on convention centre

Lack of unanimity could make for hard sell


By STEPHEN MAHER Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA — Nova Scotia’s MPs are divided over whether Ottawa should pony up $47 million for a new convention centre in Halifax, which could make the project harder to sell to the federal government.

New Democrat MP Megan Leslie, whose Halifax riding would be home to the cen­tre, isn’t convinced the project should go ahead, and she is writing to the prime minister to express the concerns she has heard from constituents.

“A lot of them are talking about the design factor, saying we want to say this is a part of our city, that it meets our needs, that it serves the interests of Halifax, and we haven’t had an opportunity for that," she said Monday.

Conservative MP Gerald Keddy, whose South Shore-St. Margarets riding includes a corner of Halifax Regional Municipality, said he opposes the project, and he would like to know how the province can justify it, given the elimination of the subsidy for the Yarmouth ferry.

“I don’t support it," he said. “This is a large expenditure of public money that the public will never own, that will go to the benefit of a private consortium."

Scott Brison, the Liberal MP for Kings­Hants, said he thinks Halifax needs a new convention centre, and he approves of public-private partnerships, but he is not convinced that this particular proposal has the right design or location. Perhaps a new centre would be better situated on the waterfront, he said.

“I’ve spoken with a number of devel­opers who are not speaking publicly but really wonder whether this is the best deal," he said.

Sydney-Victoria MP Mark Eyking, a Liberal, said he’s not sure the project should go ahead while the province is struggling to fund basic services.

“Is this going to translate into less school buses on the road in Middle River, for in­stance?"

he said. Other MPs do support the convention centre proposal.

Dartmouth MP Mike Savage, a Liberal, said the federal government should fund it, even if Nova Scotia’s MPs are divided, because it’s the right thing to do.

“At the end of the day, they’ve got to make a decision — is this good for Nova Scotia or not?" he said. “I believe it is. I think it’s very good for Halifax. I think it’s good for the entire region."

Geoff Regan, the Liberal MP for Halifax West, said he wants to know more about the details, but he likes the idea.

“I’d be interested in learning more about what the business plan is and says, but if it does make economic sense, I think in my view the federal government should be there," he said.

Peter Stoffer, the New Democrat MP for Sackville-Eastern Shore, is keen.

“I’ve always said I supported it," he said.

“I think it would be a great anchor for our city. I think it would be a tremendous boost for development, bringing people into Halifax, as other cities are doing."

Rodger Cuzner, the Liberal MP for Cape Breton-Canso, said it’s good for the whole province when Halifax successfully holds events, so he supports the project.

But he said if Nova Scotia’s MPs are divided, it could make it easier for Ottawa to say no. He said last Friday’s announce­ment of $19 million in federal money for the Sydney Harbour dredging project was made possible because Cape Breton politic­ians were united in their request.

“I think you’d be naive to think that that wouldn’t factor into the final decision," Cuzner said. “With the dredging, it wasn’t a couple of soloists. Everybody was singing on the same song sheet."

A spokesman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, the Central Nova MP, said Monday that now that the city has signed on, Otta­wa can consider the project.

“Minister MacKay understands the im­portance of the convention centre initiative for Halifax and our province," Jay Paxton said. “Having just received the proposal for a new convention centre, officials at both levels of government are now working together to move the application forward.

Our government will work closely with the government of Nova Scotia in reviewing this funding request."

Conservative MPs Scott Armstrong (Cumberland-Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley) and Greg Kerr (West Nova) could not be reached for comment.

([email protected])

[Jonovision]

Some councillors fear centre losses

Agreement exposes HRM to cost of operating deficits, says Uteck


By IAN FAIRCLOUGH

Staff Reporter

A new publicly funded convention centre in Halifax may be a step closer to reality, but Halifax regional councillors were not unanimous in their endorsement of the project.

Coun. Sue Uteck (Northwest Arm-South End), one of five to vote against the deal, supported the centre’s business plan but said she didn’t like the hard-line stance the municipality had taken in negotiations with the province crumbling Friday night.

She said councillors knew what their stance was, but Mayor Peter Kelly came back with a softened proposal from the province after leaving the chamber to send out a news release with Halifax Regional Municipality’s position.

“It was fundamental to protect the in­terests of the taxpayers, and I don’t think we got the best deal possible," Uteck said.

She said taking a cap on operating loss­es out of the deal exposes the municipality to financial risk.

Coun. Reg Rankin (Timberlea-Prospect) said the cap was important, and losses are a real possibility.

“It’s inherent in trade centres across North America that you get deficits," he said.

Uteck said the new deal, which requires HRM to take over the existing convention centre if the province doesn’t find a buyer by 2015, also isn’t what councillors had initially agreed to, although the majority went along with it at a vote Monday morning.

“We did not want that. I’m not sure how this deal was structured."

Rankin said it could lead to HRM taking ownership of a building “of questionable value — indeed, the market value may be less than the book value. (The province) doesn’t want to be exposed to show that loss on their books, ergo, they want to show it on our books."

The World Trade and Convention Centre has a book value of $12.8 million.

Coun. Debbie Hum (Rockingham-Went­worth) said the province won’t have any motivation to maintain the current con­vention centre until 2015.

“That’s also an issue because they could end up walking away and saying, ‘We’re not going to bother trying to sell that property at all because HRM’s going to have to take it over,’ " Hum said.

Two other councillors — Jackie Bark­house (Woodside Eastern Passage) and Jennifer Watts (Connaught-Quinpool) — also voted against the centre.

With Patricia Brooks Arenburg, staff reporter ([email protected])

[Jonovision]

It’s progress before politics for a change


In a refreshing change from the ordinary relationship between the province and Halifax city hall, the rhetoric was pushed aside as a deal was struck Monday on the proposed downtown convention centre.

It is a marked shift from public com­ments in the fall that positioned the two governments in an adversarial time warp.

The sniping back and forth, in advance of serious negotiations on the proposal, served as little more than an anchor in the relationship between the two govern­ments.

Both sides need to think a little more about progress before politics.

The deal to build the $500-million cen­tre will now move forward as a request to the federal government for assistance in building the $159-million complex.

Halifax regional council did not provide unanimous support, but the 18-5 vote Monday morning in favour of the agree­ment was not even close.

Mayor Peter Kelly has acknowledged the division that the proposal caused.

The province and the city will now each chip in $56 million over the life of the 30-year lease deal with Rank Inc., which intends to build the centre as part of a commercial and hotel complex on Argyle Street.

“This is economic activity that’s going to bring long-term benefit, and we’ve got to stop the negativity," Kelly said at a joint municipal-provincial news conference.

“We can complain if we want, but the fact is, we made a decision, we’re moving forward, and we have to get these types of projects done."

As expected, both sides had to make concessions from the initial proposal laid out by the provincial Infrastructure Re­newal Department in the fall.

The province has caved on a request that the municipality forgo any property tax revenue from the trade centre portion of the complex and has agreed to pay a portion of the taxes, based, in part, on the previous tax bill at the existing convention centre. And efforts will be made to sell the existing convention centre property rather than requiring the city to buy it as part of the deal.

Halifax’s representation on the board that will oversee the centre’s operation has also increased, with the seats to be evenly shared between the municipality and the province.

Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks is focusing on the benefits he says will be realized by the entire prov­ince, in the form of spinoff jobs, economic opportunities and tax revenues. The de­partment projects provincial tax revenue from the construction phase will be $9.5 million, while $40 million will be collect­ed in provincial coffers over the centre’s first 10 years.

Criticism of the proposal included the fact that after 30 years of lease payments, Rank would still own the building. The new deal includes buy-out provisions late in the lease that could see the complex move into public hands.

The need for flexibility on both sides was well warranted. A Corporate Research Associates poll, released Monday, said about 56 per cent of the respondents in Halifax Regional Municipality are some­what or fully in favour of the centre, while about one-third are somewhat or com­pletely opposed. The build-it-and-they-will-come ap­proach has provided plenty of fuel for opponents of the centre, who say the complex could become a white elephant for taxpayers that will not drum up addi­tional convention centre business for the city.

One thing is clear: If it is not built, con­ventioneers definitely will not come. The traditional tourism market has clearly changed, but this province still has signif­icant assets to attract convention business if the hosting abilities are available. The case has been clearly made that the exist­ing centre is turning away business be­cause of its size limitations.

The decision does require taxpayers to take a leap of faith. But there is little ques­tion that if residents of the municipality and the province are not willing to invest in Nova Scotia, it will be difficult to con­vince others to do so.

([email protected])

[Jonovision]

Convention centre more than bricks and mortar to downtown


A new convention centre in Halifax is so much more than a nice place for organizations to hold gatherings. It is just the beginning for a rejuvenation of the downtown.

The $159-million convention centre will help to leverage private money to create a $500-million convention, hotel, parkade, office tower, retail and residential project. All aspects of the multi-dimensional pro­ject will be under construction simultaneously, resulting in hundreds of jobs being created during that phase alone.

After construction is complet­ed in 2014, the complex is go­ing to mean hundreds more jobs will be brought to the downtown.

People will be working at the expanded convention centre, but there is also the 400-room hotel and the restaurants and bars included in the complex.

There will be jobs available at the high-end retail stores com­ing to the Grafton Street galle­ria, or working for one of the financial services companies in the office tower.

Developer Rank Inc. has indicated that about 75 per cent of space in the office tower has already been spoken for.

I’ve been told the federal government is fully aware that it would be asked to contribute to the convention centre, but Ottawa has been reluctant to announce it’s participation in the project without having a firm commitment from both the province and city.

Bill Estabrooks, the provin­cial transportation and infra­structure renewal minister, and Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly final­ly announced Monday that the two levels of government have come together on an agreement to build the convention centre, depending on whether the fed­eral government will agree to pay a third of the construction cost.

Now that the province and city have come together, the request will have a much stronger appeal for the federal government. The developer needs an answer by Jan. 14.

The construction and design cost is $140 million, and Otta­wa will be asked to contribute one-third, about $47 million.

The province and city will each pay half of the $19 million in interim financing costs, which brings the whole project to $159 million — $458 per square foot.

This is a turn-key price that includes all fixtures, right down to the cutlery. Rank has agreed to cover all cost overruns.

Neither the province nor city will be making any upfront payments. They will each pay $56 million in the form of a capital lease to be paid over 25 years.

The lease would also give the two governments options for two five-year extensions, along with the option to buy out the lease at Year 22 for an undeter­mined price, or in Year 30 for $ 1.

The idea of a convention centre, in itself, is not created as a profit centre for govern­ment. Rather, it is a revenue generator by bringing new business to the city. The city will recover its contribution through additional hotel fees and property taxes, and the province will collect added revenue from sales tax and income tax from people work­ing at the complex.

The province has agreed to pay a portion of the municipal property taxes on the new cen­tre, based on the assessment of the old convention centre build­ing. The province will pay about $550,000 in property taxes to the city in the first year.

The city and province will now share the cost of any an­nual operating deficit. The city’s share of the current con­vention centre’s deficit is limit­ed to $700,000.

But now the city is a full partner in the operation of the new convention centre. The board of directors will be made up of an equal number of non­politician representatives from both the city and province.

Excavation of the former Halifax Herald Ltd. site is planned to begin in March, but there is a chance work could begin sooner — the sooner the better.

([email protected])

[-Harlington-]

a slew of articles is right, ahah
this is great, its getting good attention

[worldlyhaligonian]

I'm sick of hearing about it, either build it or don't.

Leslie writing the PM is hilarious... she's definitely friends with those against the trade centre.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

Developer Rank Inc. has indicated that about 75 per cent of space in the office tower has already been spoken for.

Excavation of the former Halifax Herald Ltd. site is planned to begin in March, but there is a chance work could begin sooner — the sooner the better.

([email protected])

If the 75 per cent is true then that's great. Shouldn't be hard to fill the other 25 per cent.

On the second item, yes I agree. Get started so we can get passed the politics and get some cranes in the ground.

[Keith P.]

There are more armchair experts offering opinions on this project than any in recent memory. It certainly looks as though the teacher's union and the enviro-crazies teamed up with the STV loonies and the rest of their left-wing buddies to orchestrate an online campaign against this. When I see elected officials equating this to support for the Yarmouth ferry or school bus service, it really does make one wonder what they are thinking.

[halifaxboyns]

Megan Leslie's letter is no surprise. But let's be realistic - how much sway is she really going to have? Virtually none.

I have to agree with Keith - there are way more armchair experts than ever, but I think the fact that we are in economic hard times adds to that. People are grasping at straws and are not prepared to except change; so downsizing education (yet funding this project) they equate as the same thing - sacrifice education to fund this project. That's simply not the case, at least in my mind.

I don't believe they can simply start preparing the site until they've been given development approval through a DA or a development permit, but I could be wrong.

If this does go through the DA process - I would hope that HRM puts a comment on the planning application site that only planning issues will be considered (building height, orientation etc.); not the funding formula.

[someone123]

False zero-sum assumptions about government revenues and spending feature fairly prominently in the criticisms. It's not true that every dollar spent in Halifax means one less dollar to be spent in Cape Breton, but this is how many politicians view the situation. The reality is that Halifax is where the province gets its revenue and if it does poorly then there will be no money with which to subsidize Cape Breton.

My guess is that a letter from Megan Leslie to the federal government will have no impact whatsoever.