Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[officedweller]

Of interest - crashworthy DMUs for Marin County (and TO's MetroLinx may piggyback on the train order for the Pearson Airport Link)

http://www.sonomamarintrain.org/userfiles/file/Vehicle%20recommendation%202010-10-25.pdf

http://sonomamarintrain.com/

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportati...t-buying-japanese-for-air-rail-link?bn=1

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

That's too bad. Doesn't bode well for all the Jugo Juice franchises along the Canada Line.

On a related note, I was in Gilmore Station on Wednesday and it looked like they'd been working on the retail space in the station. Are they really opening something in there? I'd be surprised if they are, it's one of the least-used stations in the system and there's already retail on the other side of Dawson. I've never actually been through most of the Millennium Line stations...do they all have the little retail space inside the station? How many of them are actually open? Braid and Commercial are the only ones I know of that actually have anything in there.

i haven't noticed much - but Lougheed has two retailers in it - they opened within the last year - a coffee shop and a corner store shop selling transit tickets, lottery tickets, newspapers, food etc.

there was a sign years ago that international news was opening in brentwood station but as far as i can tell nothing ever did open there

[DKaz]

International News just shut down at the Granville Station Dunsmuir entrance.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I was at the OV Canada Line station about 4:30 and the Jugo Juice wasn't even open. Has it closed down for good?

It is the only Jugo Juice that I never saw any customer in (when it was open). I don't think any eatery can survive at that spot.

I also don't understand why Langara-49th was the only underground station left out by Jugo Juice. Langara-49th station was so underrated by marketing people, there is lineup for #49 buses (just like #99-b outside Commerical-Broadway) every weekday.

Langara has a food cart outside with apparently good business:
http://vancouverstreeteats.ca/fasttrac-fusion/

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by CLC

It is the only Jugo Juice that I never saw any customer in (when it was open). I don't think any eatery can survive at that spot.

Nothing will survive at that spot in the next 5 years. Not until SEFC is built out and there are people actually using that station at all times of day.

[CLC]

Fares falling short for TransLink

By Jeff Nagel - BC Local News

Transit riders aren't paying as much as TransLink banked on this year.

A new financial report shows the average fare paid per rider declined last year and has held steady so far in 2010 despite the 10 per cent fare increase that took effect in April.

One theory is fare evasion is on the rise – possibly due to the tough financial times over the past 18 months.

And it might not be passengers blatantly boarding without paying, but more who are paying for one zone when they're riding through two or more.

A Fare Revenue Task Force has been struck to investigate and TransLink meanwhile has stepped up fare checks and enforcement on the buses and SkyTrain.

More passengers also bought prepaid FareSaver tickets in advance of the April fare hike, another factor that brought down the average.

TransLink expects to collect $430 million in total from the farebox this year or about 37 per cent of its total revenue, according to the second quarter financial report.

It plans to spend $836 million on transit service this year.

TransLink is succeeding in pulling more cash out of motorists.

It's on track to collect $322 million in gas tax this year, about $57 million more than last year thanks to the three-cent-per-litre tax hike for TransLink that kicked in last January.

This will be the first year more has been raised from fuel tax than property taxes, which add $289 million.

SkyTrain passenger injuries are also up – to 51 so far this year – mainly due to passengers falling on stairs or escalators.

TransLink also intends to begin rolling out adjustments to bus routes as part of a drive to rationalize service and extract more revenue, by reallocating buses from under-used runs to ones where demand is expected to be higher.

Those changes start in December.

Overall, an improving financial outlook and various internal savings mean TransLink expects to end the year with a $34 million deficit, better than the $79 million deficit budgeted for 2010.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by DKaz

International News just shut down at the Granville Station Dunsmuir entrance.

I used to love seeing that place and knowing the tiring walk between Vancouver City Centre & Granville Station was over. Also helped me know I was at the right exit from Granville Station going in the other direction. I think they closed from lack of business.
Shouldn't that be posted in the Metro Vancouver Retail Thread though?

[golog]

How much did Translink increase its suburban bus service and at what costs?

[golog]

Vancouver Sun Video: New transit technology and design

A look at [one new design] being considered for B.C. buses.
BAE Xcelsior; 5.88 mpg, better access for wheelchairs, skylights, +3" height in back, slightly different seat configuration

[SpikePhanta]

More head room = perfect!
Looks interesting, but forward facing seats have less standing room right?

[squeezied]

Interesting, where are they planning on putting these buses?

[SFUVancouver]

When it comes to double decker buses the future will be arriving shortly in London:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/12/londons-new-double-decker-bus-unveiled-w-video/

[CLC]

Originally Posted by golog

Vancouver Sun Video: New transit technology and design

A look at [one new design] being considered for B.C. buses.
BAE Xcelsior; 5.88 mpg, better access for wheelchairs, skylights, +3" height in back, slightly different seat configuration

Too little standing room, i am not impressed. This bus would not work well for most of our most busy routes.

Probably suitable for Surrey or Langley?

[golog]

Article associated with the video has turned up
Buses of the future unveiled at Vancouver convention

some excerpts

"The next round of replacements will begin in 2012, when the 1999 buses will need replacing, ... There are some technologies that look great on paper but are gutless on the hills"

Trans-Expo is a partnership of the Canadian Urban Transit Association, the Canadian Bus Association and Motor Coach Canada.

The Winnipeg-based New Flyer company, which supplies buses to most of the top 25 bus fleets in North America, brought its Xcelsior hybrid model to the show. I can carry 80 passengers and has a fuel consumption of 5.88 miles a gallon, an improvement on conventional diesel engine performance, which comes in at around three miles per gallon.

This bus weighs 10 per cent less than standard models and that results in a seven-per-cent increase in fuel economy

Keep in mind, it's possible Translink just retire the 1999 buses and reallocates some of the recent bus expansion to reduce its operating loss. Not sure of all the relevant figures, or how willing they are to battle the drivers' union and suburban mayors -- maybe the property tax battle will make that choice simpler

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by CLC

Too little standing room, i am not impressed. This bus would not work well for most of our most busy routes.

Probably suitable for Surrey or Langley?

Hey, our buses are packed too...

I can't get the video to load, but if it's anything like the newest buses in Translink's fleet, it's a terrible idea. It's like the layouts get worse and worse as time goes on.

edit: just saw the pic in the story, it's a slight improvement. At least the seats in the back that faced each other are gone...I don't know who thought that was a good idea.

[Millennium2002]

Standing room can be made by just adjusting the seats to side seating rather than front-facing seating. The same I believe can still be done in the back as well.

This bus would fit well within Vancouver's urban climate... yes, it's slightly narrower than the NovaBuses that have been purchased here, but in a way that helps too because our roads are narrower than the norm. A few months ago I was at the hospital with my ailing grandmother when I chatted with these paramedics about the newest of ambulances... they said there was a lot of space, but that the vehicles were "too wide" for city streets. They even remarked how they had to try at least three times to squeeze by a police car once. =S

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Hey, our buses are packed too...

I can't get the video to load, but if it's anything like the newest buses in Translink's fleet, it's a terrible idea. It's like the layouts get worse and worse as time goes on.

edit: just saw the pic in the story, it's a slight improvement. At least the seats in the back that faced each other are gone...I don't know who thought that was a good idea.

While I can't comment on how packed the buses are out in Surrey and Langley and such places.

What I'm wondering is even though the buses might be packed. Do you see a lot of people getting on and off at stops or is more of a case of the bus is packed but not very many people getting on and off. Mostly people just going the entire route.

This the biggest problem with buses in Vancouver. People constantly getting on and off. Which is why I don't like the narrow isles. They make it so that there are 2 seats on one side and 1 seat on the other. Or make it only 1 seat on either side. Or make long sideways seatings seats. Yes there will be less seats for people to sit. But there would be more standing room thus allowing people to get around more easily.

[WarrenC12]

How about the cost?? Do we really need to replace 13 year old buses in today's Translink funding situation?

[CLC]

Originally Posted by cabotp

This the biggest problem with buses in Vancouver. People constantly getting on and off. Which is why I don't like the narrow isles. They make it so that there are 2 seats on one side and 1 seat on the other. Or make it only 1 seat on either side. Or make long sideways seatings seats. Yes there will be less seats for people to sit. But there would be more standing room thus allowing people to get around more easily.

You nailed the main point. One of the reasons why some bus routes have had difficulty to keep schedule is because of narrow aisle caused extra long time for people to get off whenever the bus was packed. And as you described, many Vancouver proper routes see people demand getting off at basically every stop.

[golog]

buses work well when travelling at capacity with stops every 100 - 200m.
express busses stopping every 1 - 2km work well at efficiently diverting crosstown trips, bolstering the transit network at least cost
grade separated trains work well when express bus routes are at capacity, stuck in their own congestion, and having demand outstrip their expansion to other routes. they still stop every 1-2km, but dwell times are shorter, there is no congestion to make schedules efficient/reliable and travel speed is about double. profit goes up because operating costs are lower for that level of ridership

beyond that we can expand the network to intercity trains, with stations every 100-200km


this self-similar scaling is important, every mode has a role determined by its sweet spot, and there is a smooth transition to adding another level of service. they all support each other, and each level focuses on what it does best. highways don't work when used as local roads, skytrain wouldn't work without connecting buses. they work well together, by each doing what it does best