Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 372

SpongeG · #**7421** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLC

i believe this final design is already a compromise (still have some transverse seatings). If I remember correct, the media once reported that the new TTC subway car is going to have side seatings only.

the piccadily line has side seats only - which isn't so bad

moblog.net

mr.x · #**7422** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 3:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The mobility issue is especially important on Skytrain because the cars are much narrower and with double forward-facing seats on each side of the aisle there's zero room to get past a standee.

Even on the Canada Line trains, mobility is a huge issue - and why? Row seating!!!

I cannot emphasize enough how many more people could be comfortably boarded into each train if InTransitBC had used side seating, or at least a lot more of it. HOWEVER, within that standing space there also needs to be sufficient bars and handles to hold onto otherwise people will be reluctant to stand there, thus you're wasting space just like with row seating.

Vonny · #**7423** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 4:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

Note to InTransitBC: THIS IS HOW YOU DESIGN A TRAIN INTERIOR.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...bway-101015/20101015/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Side seating? Check.
Appropriate bars and handles to hold onto for standing space? Check.
Even the non-shiny but dulled bars look nicer, no fingerprints! Check!

The only thing I don't like is the blood red seat colour, it makes the train look retro already in a way...but I guess it is the TTC's colour.

it is well designed for efficient cleaning (see how all the floor is free of obstacle or corner and can be sweep in one shot)...but how about pole dancing with such prude design?

• Video Link (that is thanks to zwei)

GeeCee · #**7424** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 4:29 AM**

Apparently a vehicle levy is on the table now as well (as opposed to a property tax increase).

"Property tax is not a preferred way to pay for transportation," said TransLink spokesperson Ken Hardie, who said the transportation authority's board drew that conclusion after hearing from the TransLink mayors' council this week.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/greater_vancouver/newwestminsternewsleader/news/105063819.html

Translink's funding options website: http://www.translink.ca/en/Be-Part-of-th...onsultations/2011-Supplemental-Plan.aspx

And diesel buses are getting cameras:

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/artic...ras-to-be-installed-on-hundreds-of-buses

jlousa · #**7425** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 4:31 AM**

Doesn't appear that Translink is too concerned about a lack of financing. Don't know what the Liberals have in store but it's something. The following was included in an RFP released today, note the wording or "when" approved, not if approved. Seems like an interesting choice of wording.

Quote:

The Supplier List is expected to be in place for a period of approximately three (3) years beginning November 2010 and ending November 2013. TransLink, in its discretion, may extend the period during which the Supplier List is valid.

2.0 BACKGROUND

2.1 The Real Estate Division of TransLink has a mandate to increase revenue, reduce capital costs and increase ridership by promoting real estate development at or near transit facilities and by improving the value of existing land holdings. The Division captures additional real estate value as a way to minimize the cash outlays from the public purse. Facilitating urban density will help move jobs and additional tax base to local communities as well as encourage people to drive less and use the transit system more with a resulting decrease in greenhouse gas emissions.

2.2 There are three new transit corridors under study and several new rapid bus associated developments that will require property acquisitions, when approved. The Real Estate Division will be working to increase densification along the corridors and at the stations. This will involve accelerated real state programs and major acquisition work.

Source
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...20opportunities/q0%200054/q00054rfq.ashx

SpongeG · #**7426** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 5:24 AM**

more pole dancing...

• Video Link

Millennium2002 · #**7427** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 6:37 AM**

It was interesting to look over the closed bids... some of it's just routine, but when did BC Hydro have a False Creek Transit Centre? =S There are not many pics of that place anymore...

Gordon · #**7428** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 2:19 PM**

I always thought $400M was Translinks portion of the Evergreen line's cost and the they were around $170m short.

The Vehicle Levy is a good idea but they will need a payment mechanism that doesn't cost them too much money and one that compels people to pay.

GeeCee · #**7429** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 4:09 PM**

Adding it on to car insurance would be the easiest way IMO. Just have to convince ICBC to do it..

(woo, post #1000 for me

)

cabotp · #**7430** Posted **Oct 16, 2010, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

Doesn't appear that Translink is too concerned about a lack of financing. Don't know what the Liberals have in store but it's something. The following was included in an RFP released today, note the wording or "when" approved, not if approved. Seems like an interesting choice of wording.

Source
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...20opportunities/q0%200054/q00054rfq.ashx

Because at the end of the day. It is a question of when and not if.

Things will get done. It might not be by tomorrow and it might not be for the next 10 years or longer. But there is always enough time to get things done. Which is why I'm not worried about the funding. At some point the money will be there.

Sure it would be nice to see the 3 extensions started by tomorrow. But that is never going to happen. But that doesn't mean that they will never be built .

jsbertram · #**7431** Posted **Oct 17, 2010, 6:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the piccadily line has side seats only - which isn't so bad

moblog.net

Padded cushioned Seats?
Arm Rests?
Enough overhead room for my bowler hat?

How Civilized!

Does this have something to do with the sports event they're having in 2012?
Or perhaps the Royal Wedding the same summer ?
Or maybe the celebration of the Queens 60th anniversary all year?

jsbertram · #**7432** Posted **Oct 17, 2010, 6:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

Note to InTransitBC: THIS IS HOW YOU DESIGN A TRAIN INTERIOR.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...bway-101015/20101015/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Side seating? Check.
Appropriate bars and handles to hold onto for standing space? Check.
Even the non-shiny but dulled bars look nicer, no fingerprints! Check!

The only thing I don't like is the blood red seat colour, it makes the train look retro already in a way...but I guess it is the TTC's colour.

It's surprising to me that it has taken so long to build trains that are open between all the cars. We have a pass-through between the Canada Line cars, and between pairs of MK II cars, but this is the first time I've seen an entire train be accessible from stem to stern.

cabotp · #**7433** Posted **Oct 17, 2010, 7:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

It's surprising to me that it has taken so long to build trains that are open between all the cars. We have a pass-through between the Canada Line cars, and between pairs of MK II cars, but this is the first time I've seen an entire train be accessible from stem to stern.

They could do that with the MKII cars with the addition of the C-cars. With the current setup if one set of MK II cars is having mechanical problems. They can disconnect it from the other set. So it gives them more options without the C-Car.

jsbertram · #**7434** Posted **Oct 17, 2010, 2:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabotp

They could do that with the MKII cars with the addition of the C-cars. With the current setup if one set of MK II cars is having mechanical problems. They can disconnect it from the other set. So it gives them more options without the C-Car.

it will be interesting to see how often these trains are out of service.
If one car has a serious problem, the entire 6-car train set is unusable.
I agree that with the mated pairs used by Skytrain, if one car has a serious problem, only it and its mate are out of service and can be cut out of a 4-car or 6-car train set & be replaced with another working set of cars.

cabotp · #**7435** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 7:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

it will be interesting to see how often these trains are out of service.
If one car has a serious problem, the entire 6-car train set is unusable.
I agree that with the mated pairs used by Skytrain, if one car has a serious problem, only it and its mate are out of service and can be cut out of a 4-car or 6-car train set & be replaced with another working set of cars.

Well like anything the older something is the longer it will be out of service at times. I'm sure when they are new they come in for a quick service. With only minor repairs. But as they get older those repairs start to become more major and thus require more time to fix.

Though it also depends on how many spares they have.

SpongeG · #**7436** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 10:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Padded cushioned Seats?
Arm Rests?
Enough overhead room for my bowler hat?

How Civilized!

Does this have something to do with the sports event they're having in 2012?
Or perhaps the Royal Wedding the same summer ?
Or maybe the celebration of the Queens 60th anniversary all year?

its always been like that as many times as I have used it - well not all had the armrests but i remember the armrests - this is the line that also goes to the heathrow airport and it can be quite crowded with luggage

flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/bods/

the pics empty make it look spacious but its not i find the roof very low and the doors are designed so you don't have to duck to get in

img.dailymail.co.uk

twoNeurons · #**7437** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 3:30 PM**

The Tube is crowded because all the tunnels are quite small diameter and circular. This means that near the doors, the train body has to be curved. If you're average height, the door can trap your hair or hat.

It means that it was cheaper to build ( smaller diameter tunnels ) but it also means that trains have much less clearance:

Zassk · #**7438** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 5:07 PM**

^ The size of the tunnel is a legacy of the network's age. This is why tube trains are so long - the cars hold far less than even MK I cars. Not a place for those with claustrophobia.

aberdeen5698 · #**7439** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabotp

Though it also depends on how many spares they have.

The problem is that the entire train considered as a unit is less reliable than individual cars or car pairs, and to compensate for the poorer reliability you need to have a higher percentage of spares. So the net effect is a higher capital investment required for the fleet.

The big question is whether the percentage increase in capacity is as large as the percentage increase in fleet cost.

Another downside is that if you size the trains for peak loads then it may be uneconomical to run them at decent frequencies off-peak.

cabotp · #**7440** Posted **Oct 18, 2010, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

The Tube is crowded because all the tunnels are quite small diameter and circular. This means that near the doors, the train body has to be curved. If you're average height, the door can trap your hair or hat.

It means that it was cheaper to build ( smaller diameter tunnels ) but it also means that trains have much less clearance:

Back when they did build the underground. The average height of people was shorter than today. So while it did save them money, they also didn't have a real reason to built taller tunnels