Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by racc

With an electric assist bike, people can pedal as much or as little as they want. If their other option is driving a car, they of course, don't have the option of pedalling at all. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I was referring to the electric scooters that you don't pedal. In that they give no benefit to the physical advantage cycling gives you over driving a vehicle.

Which raises an interesting issue I've seen

It is well known that a cyclist is not supposed to cycle on the sidewalk. I say not supposed to as it does happen and I will admit that I've gone along a short section of sidewalk as I don't like the road in that area at times. I also realize the kids will use the sidewalk as it is safer. Which I have no problem with.

But for those electric scooters. Why are they even allowed on the sidewalk at all. The other night I saw someone going up Willingdon in the wrong direction on the sidewalk in one those electric scooters. I mean hell if they can go why doesnt a person on a motor cycle go. Or for the wide sidewalks maybe people in smart cars should drive on them as well.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I was referring to the electric scooters that you don't pedal. In that they give no benefit to the physical advantage cycling gives you over driving a vehicle.

Which raises an interesting issue I've seen

It is well known that a cyclist is not supposed to cycle on the sidewalk. I say not supposed to as it does happen and I will admit that I've gone along a short section of sidewalk as I don't like the road in that area at times. I also realize the kids will use the sidewalk as it is safer. Which I have no problem with.

But for those electric scooters. Why are they even allowed on the sidewalk at all. The other night I saw someone going up Willingdon in the wrong direction on the sidewalk in one those electric scooters. I mean hell if they can go why doesnt a person on a motor cycle go. Or for the wide sidewalks maybe people in smart cars should drive on them as well.

Same as for bikes, they are not allowed(by law) on the sidewalk, but that doesn't mean people won't do it. Kids are allowed to use the sidewalk, when I was growing up anything under 20" wheels were allowed on the sidewalks.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

The city has been accepting feedback for two months. Wake up.

I am quite awake, thank you.

The meeting of the Committee is this week and submissions are being solicited from the public for that meeting. Why bother with the same exercise if the decision has already been made. It's been well documented by open mic that Gregor doesn't like bothering with the public's opinion. Perhaps he should have some respect for their time and not waste it if its a foregone conclusion.

On another note, News1130 reports this morning that 92% of Hornby St. businesses who responded to their survey expect significant losses from the bike lane.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cabotp

But for those electric scooters. Why are they even allowed on the sidewalk at all.

Some of the scooters and mini-motorbikes I've seen on the Dunsmiur cycle path make me nervous. What's the deal on the type of conveyance that's allowed to use the bike lanes?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by madmigs

Same as for bikes, they are not allowed(by law) on the sidewalk, but that doesn't mean people won't do it. Kids are allowed to use the sidewalk, when I was growing up anything under 20" wheels were allowed on the sidewalks.

I did say that bikes aren't supposed to be on the sidewalk either, except for kids. Even I as a kid cycled on the sidewalk. I even did it as a teenager. Of course that was back when there was no bike routes at all and most times the only way to cross a major street was to find the traffic light.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Why bother with the same exercise if the decision has already been made.

It's normal procedure to allow "interested parties" a brief comment to Council. The actual consultation period concluded in late September (as planned), with feedback already incorporated into the designs.

[racc]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I am quite awake, thank you.

The meeting of the Committee is this week and submissions are being solicited from the public for that meeting. Why bother with the same exercise if the decision has already been made. It's been well documented by open mic that Gregor doesn't like bothering with the public's opinion. Perhaps he should have some respect for their time and not waste it if its a foregone conclusion.

Actually, a survey of people along Hornby shows that the majority (56%) supported the bike lane while only 30% were opposed.
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/P...118/story.html

Originally Posted by whatnext

On another note, News1130 reports this morning that 92% of Hornby St. businesses who responded to their survey expect significant losses from the bike lane.

The CFIB "survey" is flawed in several ways:
- It was started before the city consulted with most of the businesses
- It was started before the city released the plans last week that address many of the concerns of the businesses
- Laura Jones issued very negative statements on the bike lane which likely influenced the survey results
- The survey only asked if businesses what their losses might be. It did not ask what the gains might be
- They did not approach all the businesses along Hornby so the results are likely skewed towards businesses that do not like the lanes

Similar surveys on Bloor street in Toronto showed http://www.cleanairpartnership.org/p...es-parking.pdf that a greater number businesses thought that bike lanes would improve business. I suspect if a similar scientifically valid survey was done here on the actually plans for Hornby, the support for the bike lane would be much higher. A study http://www.emilydrennen.org/research_trans.shtml done in San Francisco four and a half years after the bike lanes were built indicated that the vast majority of the businesses expressed support for the bike lanes.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

On another note, News1130 reports this morning that 92% of Hornby St. businesses who responded to their survey expect significant losses from the bike lane.

There have been an awful lot of separated bike lanes implemented in cities across North America. The only post-implementation studies I've ever seen cite generally positive results. Are there any negative results somewhere that would lead these businesses to believe that there's going to be a problem? Or is it simply fear of the unknown?

[WarrenC12]

Why don't they ask Dunsmuir businesses how things have gone so far?

Where's that electronics guy? Store closed yet or what?

[racc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why don't they ask Dunsmuir businesses how things have gone so far?

Where's that electronics guy? Store closed yet or what?

Haven't heard a peep from him. I expect that is a sign that he is doing fine or else the media would be all over that.

[whatnext]

The Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, the Vancouver Board of Trade and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business have all lined up against the Hornby Bike Lane proposal. But hey, what do they know about running a business compared to a bunch of bicycling lobbyists?

Given the local business community's opposition, if I was one of Vision's bag men, I'd be a little worried about donations from anyone other than their American friends.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, the Vancouver Board of Trade and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business have all lined up against the Hornby Bike Lane proposal. But hey, what do they know about running a business compared to a bunch of bicycling lobbyists?

Given the local business community's opposition, if I was one of Vision's bag men, I'd be a little worried about donations from anyone other than their American friends.

I feel that aberdeen5698 it that nail on the head.

They are basically afraid of the unkown. They are only assuming that because a customer can't park right in front of their store. That they will loose the business. I'd say that if a customer truly does like going to that store than they would be willing to park a block away and walk. If they don't desire to do that. Then that customer never really truly liked going to that store.

[tybuilding]

http://momentumplanet.com/articles/s...r-safetys-sake

Many adults don’t ride bikes because they simply don’t feel safe maneuvering among automobiles. Cycle tracks are designed to relieve road anxieties by providing a wide bike path that’s buffered from cars and pedestrians. One Danish study found that cycle tracks increase bicycle ridership by 20 percent (compared to seven percent for bike lanes). Vancouver, British Columbia recently opened a two-way cycle track in its downtown district; more than 150 cyclists showed up for the ribbon cutting, including Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson.

[Porfiry]

CTV reports that Council has unanimously approved the Hornby St. bike lane.

[Built Form]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

CTV reports that Council has unanimously approved the Hornby St. bike lane.

BIG surprise! They marked off the lanes 2 days ago. So much for democracy and transparency.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

CTV reports that Council has unanimously approved the Hornby St. bike lane.

go bikelanes go!



good to see susan anton not shooting herself in the foot by voting against the bike lanes...

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

http://momentumplanet.com/articles/s...r-safetys-sake

Many adults don’t ride bikes because they simply don’t feel safe maneuvering among automobiles. Cycle tracks are designed to relieve road anxieties by providing a wide bike path that’s buffered from cars and pedestrians. One Danish study found that cycle tracks increase bicycle ridership by 20 percent (compared to seven percent for bike lanes). Vancouver, British Columbia recently opened a two-way cycle track in its downtown district; more than 150 cyclists showed up for the ribbon cutting, including Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson.

I agree that there will be more cyclists, but it might take a while.
There's nothing wrong with that either.
In fact, in 25 years when gas is $3.50 a litre, there will probably be a lot more cyclists.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Built Form

BIG surprise! They marked off the lanes 2 days ago. So much for democracy and transparency.

So democracy is only when the what you are supporting gets through. Otherwise it isn't democracy when what you don't support gets passed through.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

go bikelanes go!



good to see susan anton not shooting herself in the foot by voting against the bike lanes...

Really?

I like bike lanes, but why wouldn't Anton take a political stand on such a divisive issue? The NPA really is in terrible shape aren't they?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

CTV reports that Council has unanimously approved the Hornby St. bike lane.

Wow, what a surprise, council voted for the bike lanes, didn't see that coming, no sir...

As to Anton, its well known that she's a cyclist. Maybe she could have sent a message with a "No" vote to the bike lobby that their cozy relationship with Vision wasn't appreciated (in light of all the bike lanes the NPA had created) but she chose not to. Its not called the Non-Partisan Association for nothing.