YEG - Edmonton Int Airport

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by MacLac

Who is this guy? Some dude from Austrailia telling us the "where and the whens." Someone should dissect his local airport and depress him with the numbers compared to Sydney's #'s? Who cares about what this minion says.

Oh well, nobody seems to have an answer for my question, which is pretty simple and clear about marketing, results and analysis. No need to be so sensitive, and fine, if you want to choose to sling mud. But I stand by the facts.

And, sigh, not really into the — for tat... but...since you (^) brought it up... Here is a depressing story for you..

http://www.melbourneairport.com.au/News-...ecord-passenger-growth-at-Melbourne.html

Makes for a good read.

Melbourne Airport is pleased to announce that the new financial year has started with an all time record month, with total passenger numbers up 13.4 per cent when compared with July last year.

This substantial growth has come from both international, up by 16.4 per cent, and, domestic, up by 12.7 per cent for the month when compared to July last year.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Ahh shame. Fact vs opinion, somebody explain to me how the numbers prove their lame marketing campaign is working? Media says one thing, facts state otherwise. Sorry if that is "terrible depressing." Here's a tissue.

No, we're trying to be patient, seeing that the Edmonton's metro growth is relatively flat for the past year so it would make sense that the airport's numbers is stagnant or unstable.

[tkoe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

So how is the Stop the Calgary Habit campaign working again? Where is the proof in these numbers? In fact, they contradict what the EIA has just publicly stated in their recent press release last week. They must have a different set of "books." Embarrassing! The transborder weak result was expected due to capacity cuts and the montly growth for August in international is off a very low base so only ~ 1,200 passengers more for the entire month compared to 2009. Yet, strangely....YYC continues to grow significantly.

There is no sense in everyone attacking Johnny Aussie for his negative views on EIA - whatever, that's his prerogative.

What I would like to know though, is what's the point of your criticism Jonny? Are you trying to say that EIA shouldn't try to reduce the numbers of passengers transiting through Calgary? EIA shouldn't toot its own horn in its own press releases? Edmonton is full of wankers and is not nearly as great as Calgary?

Really, what exactly are you trying to say?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by tkoe

There is no sense in everyone attacking Johnny Aussie for his negative views on EIA - whatever, that's his prerogative.

What I would like to know though, is what's the point of your criticism Jonny? Are you trying to say that EIA shouldn't try to reduce the numbers of passengers transiting through Calgary? EIA shouldn't toot its own horn in its own press releases? Edmonton is full of wankers and is not nearly as great as Calgary?

Really, what exactly are you trying to say?

OK, thought that was obvious... Anyway, EIA should definitely try and do whatever they have to do as any airport does. YYC will try and do what they have to do to grow as well (as they appear to be quite successful at doing). YEG toot it's own horn? Ab-sooo-—-lutely, IF there is a horn to toot! Unfortunately, however, the facts are saying otherwise ----> their campaign has not produced the intended results (bordering on failure)....But they are rah rah rah. Believe what you want (ie what you read) I guess.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Just because the August stats are what they are does not mean the YEG campaign is not working and fewer people are not driving to calgary. We have been in a recession. We, meaning everybody. Very few airports are showing any gains. Most are down significantly. If there was no campaign, YGs numbers would be slightly lower. 2009 pax stats are still 55% higher than 2004.
Airlines have increased flights at YEG because they are recognizing that the recession is coming to end, or ended (the economy has seen growth for a couple of quarters), analysts are predicting a rise in the CAD and oil prices will increase. It only makes sense for airlines to increase their winter schedule.
Calgary is going to be the better airport. There is no question, it always will be. But if I ran the EAA and I knew that about 18% of the customer base is not choosing my airport, I would try to target them.
Keep in mind, EIA is putting press releases out there for everything because of the whole airport debate, and now election issue. They have been saving up these press releases for a while. I dont give a — about YYC, and I especiatially dont give a — about some guy from australia trying to poke us with a stick.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

Airlines have increased flights at YEG because they are recognizing that the recession is coming to end, or ended (the economy has seen growth for a couple of quarters), analysts are predicting a rise in the CAD and oil prices will increase. It only makes sense for airlines to increase their winter schedule.

But that has been the point all along...sigh... airlines HAVEN'T increased flights at YEG and they AREN'T increasing their winter schedules (capacity cuts > capacity gains)... despite what EIA says. Pathetic reporting/journalism.

[cyeg66]

I do have to agree with Ozzie a little bit. I'm disappointed with the reduction in services/flights. It's as though airlines are at a crux, not too terribly sure whether things are officially on the rebound, or fearful that they don't want to add capacity too quickly, or any at all. Keep in mind, YEG is still a small enough operation that the addition of one or two dailies can make a significant impact on statistics, and the opposite is also true. Take one or two away, and things look grim. That said, I don't think things will get any worse, and provided the US doesn't find another way of impacting the global economy thru misguided lending practices (dipshits...), YEG should be on the road to recovery come next Spring.

And Johnnie Auzzzzzz, if you want to see expansion works being carried out, you should fly up to YEG when you skip over the pond next week. Oh wait, perhaps drive.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

Just because the August stats are what they are does not mean the YEG campaign is not working and fewer people are not driving to calgary. We have been in a recession. We, meaning everybody. Very few airports are showing any gains. Most are down significantly. If there was no campaign, YEGs numbers would be slightly lower. 2009 pax stats are still 55% higher than 2004.
Airlines have increased flights at YEG because they are recognizing that the recession is coming to an end, or ended (the economy has seen growth for a couple of quarters), analysts are predicting a rise in the CAD and oil prices will increase. It only makes sense for airlines to increase their winter schedules.
Calgary is going to be the better airport. There is no question, it always will be. But if I ran the EAA and I knew that about 18% of the customer base is not choosing my airport, I would try to target them.
Keep in mind, EIA is putting press releases out there for everything because of the whole airport debate, and now election issue. They have been saving up these press releases for awhile. I don't give a — about YYC, and I especially don't give a — about some TROLL from Australia trying to poke us with a stick.

I agree with you 100%.

The campaign is a chickee one to get people informed of how their decisions to fly affects the current market for air services in Edmonton. It is funny and if it pokes a jab or two at Calgary at the same time, great! And it is working despite what some might think and how month to month numbers are given the recent recession. The idea here is for people to start thinking about it when they make their flight decisions. I have had many conversations with business colleagues and friends alike and that is the point of the campaign...the overall awareness factor. Good air service leads to greater business for the whole greater Edmonton community and that helps out everyone in the long run. I doubt that EAA expects everyone to stop flying through Calgary cold turkey. It is a long term stategy and it will take time.

It is also a very crafty subtle way for EAA to give its unwrittten support to Westjet who is providing the bulk of transborder services to the Edmonton mrket. Stop the Calgary habit and fly direct and for the most part you will end up flying on Westjet. Maybe it might awaken Air Canada in the process.

[Jasper and one o nin]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

But that has been the point all along...sigh... airlines HAVEN'T increased flights at YEG and they AREN'T increasing their winter schedules (capacity cuts > capacity gains)... despite what EIA says. Pathetic reporting/journalism.

"Airlines will offer 21 per cent more flights — 1,300 more seats a week between November and April — than last winter. WestJet, Sunwing and Continental Airlines have all added extra flights this winter."

you're suggesting this is BS and they are just pulling these numbers out of their —?
by the way, Aussie Rules' St. Kilda FC- I like.

[mode]

I hope we can keep this discussion civil.

I too have trouble seeing the evidence that the number of flights from Edmonton is increasing. In particular, the claim of an increase in winter flights seems to me unclear, if not misleading. The increases by Sunwing and Westjet, for example, do not counterbalance the reduction by the Transat Group. In fact, a perusal of the websites of the various tour companies gives a lower number of weekly sun flights from Edmonton than we have seen in years. Granted, there may be extenuating circumstances, and a few more flights may be added later, but I have not seen them yet. In fact, since almost all airlines in North America are cutting capacity, Edmonton is doing rather well to more or less maintain existing flights. This is different from saying the number of flights is increasing.

I must admit that I am not a fan of this "Stop the Calgary Habit" project. I think negative campaigns like this are demeaning and cheapen the larger project of increasing air transportation to the Edmonton area. Besides, it is bad marketing policy to advertise one's competitors.

I don't know where these claims of success come from. However, if I was responsible for this project I would be trying hard to justify it right about now. I am surely not the only one asking about it.

Once again, I congratulate posters for their comments, and hope differing opinions are still welcomed.

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by mode

I hope we can keep this discussion civil.

I too have trouble seeing the evidence that the number of flights from Edmonton is increasing. In particular, the claim of an increase in winter flights seems to me unclear, if not misleading. The increases by Sunwing and Westjet, for example, do not counterbalance the reduction by the Transat Group. In fact, a perusal of the websites of the various tour companies gives a lower number of weekly sun flights from Edmonton than we have seen in years. Granted, there may be extenuating circumstances, and a few more flights may be added later, but I have not seen them yet. In fact, since almost all airlines in North America are cutting capacity, Edmonton is doing rather well to more or less maintain existing flights. This is different from saying the number of flights is increasing.

Email Edmonton Airports and ask them.

[LO 044]

The start of flights by Sunwing and WestJet to Montego Bay is a little surprising to me. AC has flied this route for 2 years i think. Last year i was looking at flights to Montego Bay and found the flights fairly empty even though the flight times were good. The packages as a whole were expensive relative to Mexico or the Dominican Republic and the travel time from Montego Bay airport to the hotel was not the best either. Maybe prices will go down becasue of the competition though.

As for the campaign against YYC. I don't see the big deal at all. Perhaps "Fly Edmonton First" didn't do well so they switched it to "Stop the Calgary habit". In the end, flight availability and schedules will be the deal maker as prices out of YYC and YEG are virtually the same for scheduled airlines. I don't know how the charter prices are out of YYC but Air Transat prices from YEG to London and Frankfurt are a joke and the flight times to/from Frankfurt are an even bigger joke. I don't even know how Air Transat keeps their flights going in the summer.

We have to take the passenger increases/decreases with a grain of salt. We need a Frankfurt flight and a couple more US destinations from what everybody else says on here. After that we'll be good for a period of time.

[Coldrsx]

"The start of flights by Sunwing and WestJet to Montego Bay is a little surprising to me. AC has flied this route for 2 years i think. Last year i was looking at flights to Montego Bay and found the flights fairly empty even though the flight times were good. The packages as a whole were expensive relative to Mexico or the Dominican Republic and the travel time from Montego Bay airport to the hotel was not the best either. Maybe prices will go down becasue of the competition though."

Yup... we went 2yrs ago and it was easily 25%-30% more expensive than other places, but well worth it and although a little long, not that bad from the airport.

[espalorius]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I don't know how the charter prices are out of YYC but Air Transat prices from YEG to London and Frankfurt are a joke and the flight times to/from Frankfurt are an even bigger joke. I don't even know how Air Transat keeps their flights going in the summer.

Well i dont know either but i just came back from fra & the planes were packed (standing room only)

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by espalorius

Well i dont know either but i just came back from fra & the planes were packed (standing room only)

Were thay packed both ways? I am happy if the planes are full, i'm just curious where most of the people are going to make it worthwhile the price they pay realtive to any scheduled carrier. What did you think of the Transat experience overall? Food? Service? TV? Just curious.

[espalorius]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Were thay packed both ways? I am happy if the planes are full, i'm just curious where most of the people are going to make it worthwhile the price they pay realtive to any scheduled carrier. What did you think of the Transat experience overall? Food? Service? TV? Just curious.

yeah they were packed both ways - it is a yvr-yeg-fra trip (maybe 1/3 were from yeg)

return was ~850$ which was 300-400$ less than the scheduled airlines

we got to fra at ~10am & the wait for my connection was only 2hrs (not bad) - back in the day, it would land around 1-2pm (i like the earlier arrival more)
lots of polaks & germans on board

food sukked
service was hot & friendly
tv's were crappy (they werent the in-seat type)
overall you get what you pay for i guess - ive flown with them many times now & overall it's D E C E N T

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by espalorius

yeah they were packed both ways - it is a yvr-yeg-fra trip (maybe 1/3 were from yeg)

return was ~850$ which was 300-400$ less than the scheduled airlines

we got to fra at ~10am & the wait for my connection was only 2hrs (not bad) - back in the day, it would land around 1-2pm (i like the earlier arrival more)
lots of polaks & germans on board

food sukked
service was hot & friendly
tv's were crappy (they werent the in-seat type)
overall you get what you pay for i guess - ive flown with them many times now & overall it's D E C E N T

Don't forget with Air Transat you get the bonus chance of flying in a glider...

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Don't forget with Air Transat you get the bonus chance of flying in a glider...

Or be delayed by an accidentally deployed life raft.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

by the way, Aussie Rules' St. Kilda FC- I like.

"if you want to see expansion works being carried out, you should fly up to YEG when you skip over the pond next week."

My mom and dad just flew out of YEG and they were very impressed with the airport. Unfortunately, on the this trip I won't be passing through YEG. Just YVR, YYC and YXE.... so maybe next time.

[espalorius]

Don't forget with Air Transat you get the bonus chance of flying in a glider...

Or be delayed by an accidentally deployed life raft.

aviation safety is no laughing matter